Is Donald Trump the Worst President since Andrew Johnson or James Buchanan?

[peoples advocate]

Why do people say things that are so silly I guess you like the way Government works against people . I only have one other thing to say and that is any one person that would choose Clinton over Trump is part of the reason the world is the way it is today.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

A creep like trump instigates such.

 

I know...and Trump "supporters" love it.

Trump matters more than Trudeau.

[Omni]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I know...and Trump "supporters" love it.

Trump matters more than Trudeau.

Trump's current lies and disrespect with regard to fallen soldiers should give even the most brain dead American pause for thought. That's all I need to say. Keep flailing on your own.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Trump is not the worst president.

 

I don't know...I bet Dubya is breathing a big sigh of relief.

[OftenWrong]

32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It's not their problem, remember ?  

He forgot already... lmao

[H10]

21 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 

Your link is cut off

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, peoples advocate said:

Why do people say things that are so silly I guess you like the way Government works against people . I only have one other thing to say and that is any one person that would choose Clinton over Trump is part of the reason the world is the way it is today.

Actually, those who chose Trump are exactly the reason the world is as it is.  By definition.  They voted.  For the president.  The president sets the direction and the tone.  And that is the reason the world is how it is.

As a side discussion, if Clinton had been elected you can bet:

- there would be major legislation passed by now

- the Democrats, unlike the Republicans, wouldn't be broken into 3 pieces (the Bannon piece, the Trump piece, and the McConnell piece)

- trade deals like NAFTA would not be at risk

- US world leadership and standing would not be under question

 

She was unlikeable, as a career politician, but unsurprisingly Trump's maladroitness is exactly what is sinking him. 

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, H10 said:

Your link is cut off

It's a link to my earlier post in which I answered the question you asked.

Seems you have to click on the part that says "Monday at 11:06 pm"

[bush_cheney2004]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

As a side discussion, if Clinton had been elected you can bet:

1. - there would be major legislation passed by now

2. - the Democrats, unlike the Republicans, wouldn't be broken into 3 pieces (the Bannon piece, the Trump piece, and the McConnell piece)

3. - trade deals like NAFTA would not be at risk

4. - US world leadership and standing would not be under question

 

 

1. Nope...not with a House and Senate controlled by Republicans

2. Nope...even without Hillary, there are still Warren Democrats, Sanders (Independent) Democrats, Watters Democrats, Black Caucus Democrats, etc.

3. NAFTA was at risk long before Trump...see Canadian national election rhetoric since Chretien and books by Maude Barlow.

4. US "world leadership" has routinely been questioned for many decades.   Be careful what you wish for.

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1. Nope...not with a House and Senate controlled by Republicans

2. Nope...even without Hillary, there are still Warren Democrats, Sanders (Independent) Democrats, Watters Democrats, Black Caucus Democrats, etc.

3. NAFTA was at risk long before Trump...see any Canadian national election rhetoric since Chretien

4. US "world leadership" has routinely been questioned for many decades.   Be careful what you wish for.

 

1.  Exactly wrong.  It's only a guess but who's better at making a deal - someone who's been in Washington 25 years, or a haircut who had a book called 'Art of the Deal' written FOR them ?

2. The party that wins doesn't fracture.  Usually.

3.  Bullshit.  He was the only candidate who would tear up a winning deal for his own unknown reason.

4. I did not wish for this.  Despite the binary thinking of others, I can be somewhat critical of governments such as the US's or my own without wanting them gone.  Furthermore, I admire the American experiment.  More so when it works.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Exactly wrong.  It's only a guess but who's better at making a deal - someone who's been in Washington 25 years, or a haircut who had a book called 'Art of the Deal' written FOR them ?

2. The party that wins doesn't fracture.  Usually.

3.  Bullshit.  He was the only candidate who would tear up a winning deal for his own unknown reason.

4. I did not wish for this.  Despite the binary thinking of others, I can be somewhat critical of governments such as the US's or my own without wanting them gone.  Furthermore, I admire the American experiment.  More so when it works.

 

1.  Hillary Clinton failed to make the greatest deal of her life and lost to someone like Donald Trump.   Clinton sponsored no major legislation as a NY senator.   Team Clinton alienated a lot of people over the years, and payback is a bitch.

2. Democrats were fractured during Obama's tenure, losing a thousand federal and state offices.   They fought bitterly over Clinton's tricks to get the nomination.   They are a self described "big tent" of competing interests.

3. NAFTA has a built in provision for cancellation by any member...it's part of the agreement and has been threatened by politicians in Canada long before Trump came along = NOT Bullshit

4. Many Canadians and other nationals have heaped scorn and disgust on "US leadership" for decades, but now they whine because it is Donald Trump calling their bluff, insisting that NATO deadbeats pay up, and DPRK threats are being engaged by force ?   Trump is part of the American experiment, regardless of what you may think about it.

[Omni]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Actually, those who chose Trump are exactly the reason the world is as it is.  By definition.  They voted.  For the president.  The president sets the direction and the tone.  And that is the reason the world is how it is.

As a side discussion, if Clinton had been elected you can bet:

- there would be major legislation passed by now

- the Democrats, unlike the Republicans, wouldn't be broken into 3 pieces (the Bannon piece, the Trump piece, and the McConnell piece)

- trade deals like NAFTA would not be at risk

- US world leadership and standing would not be under question

 

She was unlikeable, as a career politician, but unsurprisingly Trump's maladroitness is exactly what is sinking him. 

Agreed on all counts. And unlikable or not, she certainly has the experience and the much more even handed approach that Trump quite obviously lacks. Her many international travels as Sec. of State would in all likelihood have kept the US from heading down the road toward isolationism it seems to be now firmly on.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

.....Her many international travels as Sec. of State would in all likelihood have kept the US from heading down the road toward isolationism it seems to be now firmly on.  

 

What's wrong with more U.S. isolationism ?

Does it mean Canada's foreign minister has to cry again about carrying more of the load, instead of being a NATO deadbeat ?

Clinton's record as Sec'y of State is not something to brag about...from Canada.

 

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1.  Hillary Clinton failed to make the greatest deal of her life and lost to someone like Donald Trump.   Clinton sponsored no major legislation as a NY senator.   Team Clinton alienated a lot of people over the years, and payback is a bitch.

2. Democrats were fractured during Obama's tenure, losing a thousand federal and state offices.   They fought bitterly over Clinton's tricks to get the nomination.   They are a self described "big tent" of competing interests.

3. NAFTA has a built in provision for cancellation by any member...it's part of the agreement and has been threatened by politicians in Canada long before Trump came along = NOT Bullshit

4. Many Canadians and other nationals have heaped scorn and disgust on "US leadership" for decades, but now they whine because it is Donald Trump calling their bluff, insisting that NATO deadbeats pay up, and DPRK threats are being engaged by force ?   Trump is part of the American experiment, regardless of what you may think about it.

     1.  That is more a 'pitch' than a deal.  Yes, she was not likeable and she lost.

     2.  Right but it's like saying every building has cracks.  The Republican party has two huge chasms.

     3.  Goalpost, moved.  The agreement has a provision for cancellation, so what ?  It does not mean NAFTA was 'at risk'.  You are being stubborn because you hate conceding a single point. 

     4.   Yes, Trump is American.  And yes, people have been overly critical of the US leadership for decades.  That's what happens when you are #1, people pay too much attention.  Unlike you, I can concede points.  Your point that I wished for American demise is wrong.  My point that US standing is reduced stands.

You are mistaken if you think I'm anti-American, or even 100% anti-Trump.  He's such a wild card that he could turn it around at a moment's notice if he only had the character to learn and improve himself.

[Omni]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

What's wrong with more U.S. isolationism ?

Does it mean Canada's foreign minister has to cry again about carrying more of the load, instead of being a NATO deadbeat ?

Clinton's record as Sec'y of State is not something to brag about...from Canada.

 

Nothing wrong with it. Great for our tourism industry at the cost of yours. Please keep it up.

[bush_cheney2004]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

     1.  That is more a 'pitch' than a deal.  Yes, she was not likeable and she lost.

     2.  Right but it's like saying every building has cracks.  The Republican party has two huge chasms.

     3.  Goalpost, moved.  The agreement has a provision for cancellation, so what ?  It does not mean NAFTA was 'at risk'.  You are being stubborn because you hate conceding a single point. 

     4.   Yes, Trump is American.  And yes, people have been overly critical of the US leadership for decades.  That's what happens when you are #1, people pay too much attention.  Unlike you, I can concede points.  Your point that I wished for American demise is wrong.  My point that US standing is reduced stands.

You are mistaken if you think I'm anti-American, or even 100% anti-Trump.  He's such a wild card that he could turn it around at a moment's notice if he only had the character to learn and improve himself.

 

1.  Nope...it was a deal for every state primary and in a national election, and she failed to close the deal.    Trump did.

It is unreasonable and naive to presume that all her sins would be forgiven in Congress if POTUS.   Hell, it took Obama until March of 2010 to pass the ACA, and his party controlled Congress.

2.  Democrats have cracks too....for a long time.   Just ask any American "progressive".

3.  NAFTA has chapters....Trump can use one just like the NDP threatened in 2004.    Example: Jack Layton wanted to re-write Chapter 11.    FTA and NAFTA were fiercely opposed by a majority of Canadians.   But it's only a "risk" now because of Trump ?

4. U.S. standing must be reduced because of a changing world....NATO deadbeat Canada can't have it both ways.

The choices are for Americans to make, not crying foreign ministers....Americans chose Trump and all that entails...good and bad.    The U.S. is not the "world leader" just because Canada and other nations can't/won't be.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Omni said:

Nothing wrong with it. Great for our tourism industry at the cost of yours. Please keep it up.

 

Agreed....if Trump can encourage more illegals to flee to Canada, that is a very good thing, and so far he has done just that.

[Omni]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed....if Trump can encourage more illegals to flee to Canada, that is a very good thing, and so far he has done just that.

Ah you missed the point again. It's international tourists that have favored Canada in lieu of the US. But again, please pass our thanks on to the Donald. 

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Omni said:

Ah you missed the point again. It's international tourists that have favored Canada in lieu of the US. But again, please pass our thanks on to the Donald. 

 

Nope...more international tourists still visit the U.S. than Canada.

Hell, more Canadians visit the U.S. than Americans going to Canada too....many are called "snowbirds"...and the U.S. has 10x the population.

Edited October 18, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1.  Nope...it was a deal for every state primary and in a national election, and she failed to close the deal.    Trump did.

It is unreasonable and naive to presume that all her sins would be forgiven in Congress if POTUS.   Hell, it took Obama until March of 2010 to pass the ACA, and his party controlled Congress.

2.  Democrats have cracks too....for a long time.   Just ask any American "progressive".

3.  NAFTA has chapters....Trump can use one just like the NDP threatened in 2004.    Example: Jack Layton wanted to re-write Chapter 11.    FTA and NAFTA were fiercely opposed by a majority of Canadians.   But it's only a "risk" now because of Trump ?

4. U.S. standing must be reduced because of a changing world....NATO deadbeat Canada can't have it both ways.

The choices are for Americans to make, not crying foreign ministers....

1.  Disagree.  Nobody calls an election a 'deal'.  Deal making is part of passing bills.  Someone who wrote a book on the 'art' of it, who controls congress should be able to pass a single major bill.

2.  Agreed.

3.  Yes, it's at risk because Trump wants to end it.

4.   ?  Are you saying US standing "must be reduced".  That's an odd admission for you, as you are usually proud of the US's standing but ok.

"Americans chose Trump and all that entails...good and bad." Agreed to that one.

 

[Omni]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Nope...more international tourists still visit the U.S. than Canada.

Hell, more Canadians visit the U.S. than Americans going to Canada too....many are called "snowbirds"...and the U.S. has 10x the population.

Your numbers may improve now that Trump's travel ban 3.0 has been again tossed into the garbage by the courts.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Disagree.  Nobody calls an election a 'deal'.  Deal making is part of passing bills.  Someone who wrote a book on the 'art' of it, who controls congress should be able to pass a single major bill.

2.  Agreed.

3.  Yes, it's at risk because Trump wants to end it.

4.   ?  Are you saying US standing "must be reduced".  That's an odd admission for you, as you are usually proud of the US's standing but ok.

"Americans chose Trump and all that entails...good and bad." Agreed to that one.

 

 

1.  Candidates often invoke the word "deal" for voters before and after winning an election.    Just ask their speechwriters.

3.  NAFTA was at risk from its inception, with built in "risk" language.   Trump is just the latest version of this.   So what ?

4.  U.S. standing will be reduced because of changing domestic and international forces in play....mostly economics.   Canada is the world's most dependent nation for legacy American economic and military power, so it is little wonder that there is so much whining about Trump from Canada's PMO office down to cross border shoppers looking for cheaper gas.

The "world" is too dependent on American power, and Trump is being punished for pointing this out.   But it was true before Trump, and will be true long after Trump.    Merkel and Trudeau may not like it, but they are getting what they wished for.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Omni said:

Your numbers may improve now that Trump's travel ban 3.0 has been again tossed into the garbage by the courts.

 

U.S. numbers are still better than Canada's, even with Trump.

Must be the weather, eh ?

[Omni]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

U.S. numbers are still better than Canada's, even with Trump.

Must be the weather, eh ?

The weather is about all it could be these days.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1.  Candidates often invoke the word "deal" for voters before and after winning an election.    Just ask their speechwriters.

3.  NAFTA was at risk from its inception, with built in "risk" language.   Trump is just the latest version of this.   So what ?

4.  U.S. standing will be reduced because of changing domestic and international forces in play....mostly economics.   Canada is the world's most dependent nation for legacy American economic and military power, so it is little wonder that there is so much whining about Trump from Canada's PMO office down to cross border shoppers looking for cheaper gas.

The "world" is too dependent on American power, and Trump is being punished for pointing this out.   But it was true before Trump, and will be true long after Trump.    Merkel and Trudeau may not like it, but they are getting what they wished for.

   1.  Ahhhh.... well... ok.  We're left with the 'dealmaker' who can't make a real deal then.

   3.  So a good deal for America and Canada will go away.

   4-end.  Well, you have given me something to think about there.