eyeball Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 On 8/5/2017 at 7:41 AM, AngusThermopyle said: They're not refugee's. Why is it so hard for people to comprehend that fact? Whatever else they are, they're also human beings. I don't understand why people don't put that fact first. Speaking for myself and as I've said before I think its morally and ethically unconscionable that we expect a virtually borderless unregulated world through which our interests and corporations can seek greener pastures but not the people that are all too often displaced by doing so. The lines have blurred between the things causing people to flee the hopeless and often unjust economic, conflict or environmental chaos caused by globalization, human-caused climate change, foreign policy etc. I simply can't blame people for seeking greener pastures in light of how many of our expectations and contributions to these causes have helped turn their pastures so brown. We knew this was going to happen. This is what we get for creating a global economy without creating a global government first to regulate it. Of course the real trick is that we need to get a better handle on how we control and regulate our governments. But that's an even deeper and conflicted topic. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Whatever else they are, they're also human beings. I don't understand why people don't put that fact first. Didn't seem to matter when Canada's Liberal government toppled Haiti's president and government in 2004. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Didn't seem to matter when Canada's Liberal government toppled Haiti's president and government in 2004. Canada went into Haiti under UN resolution. The US should try doing things legally once in a while. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, Omni said: Canada went into Haiti under UN resolution. The US should try doing things legally once in a while. Nonsense.....Canada sponsored an illegal coup to topple President Aristide. Crapping on Haitians might just be a Canadian value. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Nonsense.....Canada sponsored an illegal coup to topple President Aristide. Crapping on Haitians might just be a Canadian value. Getting facts straight certainly isn't of value to you it seems. Quote
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Nonsense.....Canada sponsored an illegal coup to topple President Aristide. Crapping on Haitians might just be a Canadian value. Canada was there under a UN program known as MINUSTAH. Would you like to see my security badge from there? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 Canada's Haitian "chickens" are coming home to roost. Enjoy the Liberal government "blowback". Look at the bright side....many Hatians speak better French than Canadians. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Omni said: Canada was there under a UN program known as MINUSTAH. Would you like to see my security badge from there? Did not authorize a coup and kidnapping of Haiti's democratically elected president. Your "security badge" says it all....Canadian oppression from RTP doctrine. Edited August 17, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Did not authorize a coup and kidnapping of Haiti's democratically elected president. Your "security badge" says it all....Canadian oppression. Correct. It authorized a peace keeping mission after Aristide was toppled in a rebellion. Quote
eyeball Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Didn't seem to matter when Canada's Liberal government toppled Haiti's president and government in 2004. Of course something like that matters but as I said the real trick is that we need to get a better handle on how we control and regulate our governments - apparently a deeply conflicted issue you prefer to avoid. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Nonsense.....Canada sponsored an illegal coup to topple President Aristide. Crapping on Haitians might just be a Canadian value. As an American you should probably avoid discussions about illegal invasions. What was that place called...Oh yeah Iraq. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, Omni said: Correct. It authorized a peace keeping mission after Aristide was toppled in a rebellion. Of course....first Canada developed the plan to topple Aristide's government with France/USA, then sent hundreds of armed troops for "peace keeping" after the ensuing chaos. This is how the Canadian "Responsibility to Protect" imperialist doctrine works. Quote One year before U.S., French and Canadian troops, helped oust President Aristide and replaced his democratically-elected government with a puppet regime, our Liberal government organized a secret, high-level meeting of North American, Latin American and European powerbrokers to discuss possible regime change in Haiti. Their planning session, called “The Ottawa Initiative on Haiti,” also discussed the occupation of Haiti by foreign troops. This international event was held at the government’s Meech Lake conference centre near Ottawa, between January 31 and February 1, 2003. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Of course something like that matters but as I said the real trick is that we need to get a better handle on how we control and regulate our governments - apparently a deeply conflicted issue you prefer to avoid. It is not a trick at all....the control of government usually depends on economics, not morality....even for Dear Leader's party in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Of course....first Canada developed the plan to topple Aristide's government with France/USA, then sent hundreds of armed troops for "peace keeping" after the ensuing chaos. This is how the Canadian "Responsibility to Protect" imperialist doctrine works. The 2004 Haitian coup d'état occurred after conflicts lasting for several weeks in Haiti during February 2004. It resulted in the removal from office of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide preventing him from finishing his second term, and he left Haiti on a United States (U.S.) plane accompanied by U.S. military/security personnel. Aristide claims that his departure was a kidnapping, accusing the U.S. of orchestrating a coup d'état against him.[1] Aristide was forced into exile, being flown directly out of Haiti to the Central African Republic,[1] eventually settling in South Africa. Quote
taxme Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 12 hours ago, August1991 said: Taxme, I strongly disagree. 1. Given modern technology/supposed walls, they are here. (Sorry Matt Damon & fellow Canadians, we can no longer easily gate our life/house... ) 2. How do we educate all these kids, bring them into the 21st century? Canada needs leaders who will protect those walls from being breached. So far from what I seen from Canada's fearless leaders is that they could careless about the border and who is crossing over that border. I am shocked at how the conservative party has been so quiet on all of this criminal activity going on. Maybe the conservative party is just another liberal party? Politicians and Canadians need to start educating their own children about the truth for a change, and stop being so politically correct, rather than worrying about children that live thousands of miles away. It is not up to me to educate other countries children. It is the leaders of those countries to do that. If they do not want to well don't blame me or make me pay for it thru foreign aid, which in every case with foreign aid, that money ends up going down the drain. The people in the third world are living in a world that have chosen to live in. If they want their children to be better educated than they should fight for it. Don't expect me to help. I have my own problems to worry about, not some children thousands of miles away. It's called tough love but so be it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Omni said: As an American you should probably avoid discussions about illegal invasions. What was that place called...Oh yeah Iraq. If you are equating Canada's crimes in Haiti with the U.S. actions in Iraq (UN resolutions) then I would call that a success. Welcome to the club ! Enjoy your new Hatian refugees. Edited August 17, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It is not a trick at all....the control of government usually depends on economics, not morality....even for Dear Leader's party in Canada. It should depend on morality...even for you. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, eyeball said: It should depend on morality...even for you. But it doesn't, no matter what you or I may think about it. Reality Trumps Fantasy. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: If you are equating Canada's crimes in Haiti with the U.S. actions in Iraq (UN resolutions) then I would call that a success. Welcome to the club ! I'm afraid you have it backasswards again. We did actions in Haiti, you did crimes in Iraq. Which is why your namesakes are hesitant to leave US dirt. Edited August 17, 2017 by Omni Quote
eyeball Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: But it doesn't, no matter what you or I may think about it. Reality Trumps Fantasy. Of course it matters even more is how we think. The fantasy that morality has nothing to do with anything only distorts reality. 2 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Omni said: I'm afraid you have it backasswards again. We did actions in Haiti, you did crimes in Iraq Canada's "actions" in Haiti were "crimes" against Haitians. Liberals lied...Haitians died. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada's "actions" in Haiti were "crimes" against Haitians. Liberals lied...Haitians died. Nope, actions, supported by the UN. You've heard of them? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Omni said: Nope, actions, supported by the UN. You've heard of them? UN supports refugees too, so enjoy the chickens hatched from Canada's crimes in Haiti. Some would call that...Karma. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: UN supports refugees too, so enjoy the chickens hatched from Canada's crimes in Haiti. Some would call that...Karma. How long did you keep Aristide in the US? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Omni said: How long did you keep Aristide in the US? He was exiled to several nations....refused Canada because of the weather. Hope you have lots of free coats, gloves, and boots for your Haitian refugees. Edited August 17, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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