Classics in Literature (Ancient, Medieval, Renaissance...old stuff, iow)

[JamesHackerMP]

I had posted a thread on the Tale of Genji asking if anyone else had read the thing.  I should have started this thread, on classical literature, instead since it will probably garner more discussion.

Genji is long and boring but has its fascinations.  But there are others I've enjoyed, some I have not yet finished.

The Prince, The Arabian Nights, Livy's History of Rome, Suetonius' Lives of the Caesars, The Canterbury Tales by Chaucer,

Anyone into old/classical literature like that?

[drummindiver]

Don't Quixote was published in 1605 and stands as a great read today. I love a lot of the classics. 

John Barths  The Sot Weed Factor is a modern book written in old time style. Hilarious and worth the read.

 

[DogOnPorch]

11 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

I had posted a thread on the Tale of Genji asking if anyone else had read the thing.  I should have started this thread, on classical literature, instead since it will probably garner more discussion.

Genji is long and boring but has its fascinations.  But there are others I've enjoyed, some I have not yet finished.

The Prince, The Arabian Nights, Livy's History of Rome, Suetonius' Lives of the Caesars, The Canterbury Tales by Chaucer,

Anyone into old/classical literature like that?

 

I've read all those. 

I have a rather old copy of Canterbury Tales in Old English.

[JamesHackerMP]

I have a copy of Canterbury Tales in Middle English.  It's actually a recent publication by Penguin (paperback).  Real huge like a thousand pages I think. 

Old English by the way is Anglo-Saxon that sounds incomprehensible.  Not to be a smartass but Chaucer is in Middle English.  Interestingly enough,Shakespeare is considered, believe it or not, Modern English.

When I was in high school--and this was a public high school, not a private school--in Maryland, I took a course on British Literature.  We had to memorize the first part of the Prologue...in the original Middle English.  All the way from Wan that Aprill with his shores sote....to and at a knight than wal I first beginne.  Needless to say I botched that one, but I nailed all the other stuff we had to memorize.

You said "all of those"...including Genji? Did you read the unabridged version?

[JamesHackerMP]

Oops, here is the copy I found on amazon.com:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/014042234X/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[JamesHackerMP]

I guess then you have read in entirety the Wife of Bath's tale?

[historyradio.org]

I am an English and history teacher by training. I thought I would try to stir up interest in some poetry that many think is a little washed up worn  out. So I found public domain  jazz, and combined it with a PD reading of William Wordsworth. It is actually quite pleasant to listen to. Normally, one does not think about William Wordsworth as a potential jazz-man. I did some ancient greek ones to at the youtube channel:

 

[SkyHigh]

On 7/11/2017 at 11:44 PM, JamesHackerMP said:

The Prince

After having read this younger, I recently read something saying the prince shouldn't be categorized as political science but political satire. I'm rereading it again from that perspective. I think it might be better.

[August1991]

9 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

After having read this younger, I recently read something saying the prince shouldn't be categorized as political science but political satire. I'm rereading it again from that perspective. I think it might be better.

The Prince is one of the few older texts that made sense to me. It is not satire.

I have tried Plato and Aristotle but I saw obvious flaws.

My favourite is Adam Smith. And Hume.

Never understood Wordsworth. Or that guy who ran off to Corfu.

=====

Balzac is better than Dickens. Tolstoi is good. But the best of all is Hugo.

Characters and story-telling at their prime, weekly publications to literate readers.

Netflix before daytime TV.

[August1991]

23 hours ago, historyradio.org said:

I am an English and history teacher by training. I thought I would try to stir up interest in some poetry that many think is a little washed up worn  out.

....

 

It is not simple to use words in a language.

Across languages? I think John Lennon should have won the Nobel Prize; not Dylan.

[August1991]

I had a chat with a colleague. We reckoned that:

-LLM was based/trained on Wikipedia

-Copilot was based/trained on stackoverflow

Let's see.

Edited October 16, 2024 by August1991

[August1991]

On 7/12/2017 at 4:47 PM, JamesHackerMP said:

I have a copy of Canterbury Tales in Middle English.  It's actually a recent publication by Penguin (paperback).  Real huge like a thousand pages I think. 

Old English by the way is Anglo-Saxon that sounds incomprehensible.  Not to be a smartass but Chaucer is in Middle English.  Interestingly enough,Shakespeare is considered, believe it or not, Modern English.

 

Modern English is surely easier to understand than PHP.

For example, what is the difference between:

if x === y

and

if x == y

and I am confused with x != y

[SkyHigh]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

The Prince is one of the few older texts that made sense to me. It is not satire.

I have tried Plato and Aristotle but I saw obvious flaws.

My favourite is Adam Smith. And Hume.

Never understood Wordsworth. Or that guy who ran off to Corfu.

=====

Balzac is better than Dickens. Tolstoi is good. But the best of all is Hugo.

Characters and story-telling at their prime, weekly publications to literate readers.

Netflix before daytime TV.

How, may I ask , can you be so confident in the intentions of the author in a centuries old book?

[August1991]

On 10/16/2024 at 8:41 AM, SkyHigh said:

How, may I ask , can you be so confident in the intentions of the author in a centuries old book?

I read books as if the writer was speaking to me.

I listen to Hugo, Balzac, Dickens - as if they were on Audible mp3.

=====

I have never listened to/read Macchiaveli this way.

[SkyHigh]

26 minutes ago, August1991 said:

I read books as if the writer was speaking to me.

I listen to Hugo, Balzac, Dickens - as if they were on Audible mp3.

=====

I have never listened to/read Macchiaveli this way.

So, because that's not how you interpret it, it's not satire?

Oh , you must have read it in the original Italian? Or maybe you have a degree in Renaissance writing.

I wish I could remember the book I read that in, it was a very interesting view of Machiavelli's writings. It spoke of his exile and how it jaded him. The premise of what the author was saying is he was so disenfranchised he pushed what he thought was the hypocrisy of the ruling class to it's natural progression 

Edited October 19, 2024 by SkyHigh

[Legato]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:47 AM, historyradio.org said:

I am an English and history teacher by training. I thought I would try to stir up interest in some poetry that many think is a little washed up worn  out. So I found public domain  jazz, and combined it with a PD reading of William Wordsworth. It is actually quite pleasant to listen to. Normally, one does not think about William Wordsworth as a potential jazz-man. I did some ancient greek ones to at the youtube channel:

 

Very good. Have you tried adding poetry to something like Handel/Halvorson Passacaglia or Paul de Senneville Mariage d'Amour

[August1991]

On 10/18/2024 at 8:57 PM, SkyHigh said:

So, because that's not how you interpret it, it's not satire?

Oh , you must have read it in the original Italian? Or maybe you have a degree in Renaissance writing.

....

Some books are stories.

Other books are a way of thinking.

 

[SkyHigh]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Some books are stories.

Other books are a way of thinking.

 

So , just to make sure I understand. You're saying that your interpretation of an almost 1000 year old book, written in a language you don't speak, in a political climate different than anything even close to your experiences, IS the only correct interpretation ?

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Some books are stories.

Other books are a way of thinking.

 

Gold.

[Michael Hardner]

24 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

So , just to make sure I understand. You're saying that your interpretation of an almost 1000 year old book, written in a language you don't speak, in a political climate different than anything even close to your experiences, IS the only correct interpretation ?

Not sure how you would get that.

The "Bible" - such as it is - is a nebulous book-of-books, some of which are origin stories, laws, poetry, war tales, philosophy and so on.  

It makes as much sense to believe that the bible is truth as it does to hate the book.

 

[SkyHigh]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not sure how you would get that.

The "Bible" - such as it is - is a nebulous book-of-books, some of which are origin stories, laws, poetry, war tales, philosophy and so on.  

It makes as much sense to believe that the bible is truth as it does to hate the book.

 

Maybe you didn't see my original post.

I was saying that had read that the Prince by Machiavelli was intended as political satire and not political science and I found that to be an interesting perspective.

He stated he had read the book and it was NOT satire and I was asking how he could know the authors intentions of a 1000 year old book written in a language he doesn't speak. 

His response "some books are stories", "other books are a way of thinking". Neither in anyway address my point.

P.S, I don't hate the Bible, there are many positive messages throughout, I just don't believe that it's the inerrant word of the tri Omni, creator of the universe.