Freedom of speech

[bush_cheney2004]

Whenever a Canadian like Mark Steyn needs real "freedom of speech", he goes to the USA to guest host for Rush Limbaugh.

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Whenever a Canadian like Mark Steyn needs real "freedom of speech", he goes to the USA to guest host for Rush Limbaugh.

Boy when you have to tag up with Limbaugh to get noticed you're in sad shape.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

Boy when you have to tag up with Limbaugh to get noticed you're in sad shape.

Fortunately the whole point of freedom of speech is that applies to that which you like, and that which you don't  

[Omni]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Fortunately the whole point of freedom of speech is that applies to that which you like, and that which you don't  

And you're free to listen to Limbaugh all you want. What kind of drugs was he busted for again?

[Guest]

Just now, Omni said:

And you're free to listen to Limbaugh all you want. What kind of drugs was he busted for again?

Don't know, I never listened to him. 

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Fortunately the whole point of freedom of speech is that applies to that which you like, and that which you don't  

 

Yes, but more importantly it also protects speech that nobody likes.   But not so much in Canada.

[Omni]

17 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Don't know, I never listened to him. 

Well try it out. If you do, let me know if you'd do it twice, at least without sipping a beer or smoking a doobie for the humor aspect of his blather. 

[kimmy]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Milo is a troll. But then you've got other conservatives, like Ben Shapiro, who aren't terrible people who are also shouted down at university talks or outright banned by the admin.  It's a real problem.  The self-righteousness of these millennial "new progressives" has brought things to a new level, where they will deny people they disagree with basic human rights in the name of other human rights.  The admin fear the backlash so they have to cave.

Of course.  The campus PC-fascists are disgraceful. My point wasn't that they aren't a problem. My point was that it wasn't them who shut up Milo, it was "the right" ... his publisher and his employer.

I'm not going to try to rationalize or defend the campus dummies who have a temper-tantrum every time some speaker they don't like comes to town. I just want to point out that while they're the most obvious and obnoxious attempts at oppression of speech going on, they're hardly the only one.

Argus proposes that "they will have rallies and shout at us" and "they will call us fascists or meanies" are powerful forms of oppression, perhaps he is right.  What about "this will scare away advertisers"?  "The Moral Majority" and its descendants have been trying to silence messages they don't agree with for decades.  "If you advertise on this show, we'll boycott your product."  It's been going on since the 1970s, and it's still going on with "One Million Moms" and "American Family Association".  Of course it's "fascism!" since progressives have been boycotting sponsors of Hannity or Limbaugh, but it's "defending family values!" when it's One Million Moms trying to get TV shows axed or AFA trying to get people to boycott Home Depot for treating gay employees like human beings.

I assume this is completely different, since this kind of attempt at suppressing opposing views doesn't involve shouting at people or calling them rude things.

 -k

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Omni said:

Well try it out. If you do, let me know if you'd do it twice, at least without sipping a beer or smoking a doobie for the humor aspect of his blather. 

I'm not giving up NPR and the World Service for anyone. 

 

[Omni]

11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I'm not giving up NPR and the World Service for anyone. 

 

Well if I may, I would suggest listening to Trump more than Limbaugh as with the former you get a different story almost daily, and with the latter, the same old red neck crap every day. But hey, as dop will tell you're free to listen to whatever you want. 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Omni said:

Well if I may, I would suggest listening to Trump more than Limbaugh as with the former you get a different story almost daily, and with the latter, the same old red neck crap every day. But hey, as dop will tell you're free to listen to whatever you want. 

Maybe they can get him on Fresh Air. 

[Moonlight Graham]

12 hours ago, kimmy said:

I assume this is completely different, since this kind of attempt at suppressing opposing views doesn't involve shouting at people or calling them rude things.

 -k

I think protesting anyone is fair game, since it's also a fundamental democratic right.  That includes boycotts of television/radio shows and advertisers pulling out for bad press.  That's just capitalism and people voting with their dollars.

When liberals on campuses won't stop chanting inside a conservative speakers' talk or cause threatening disruption outside, that's not peaceful protest it's disturbing the peace. It's a failure of the police/security for not protecting the right of these people to speak.

[dre]

Pretty funny OP. 

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I think protesting anyone is fair game, since it's also a fundamental democratic right.  That includes boycotts of television/radio shows and advertisers pulling out for bad press.  That's just capitalism and people voting with their dollars.

When liberals on campuses won't stop chanting inside a conservative speakers' talk or cause threatening disruption outside, that's not peaceful protest it's disturbing the peace. It's a failure of the police/security for not protecting the right of these people to speak.

Those liberals chanting is ALSO an expression of free speech. Look... college campuses are full of students and teachers... both strong liberal demographics. Its just naturally going to be an unfriendly place for conservative idealogues, just like if a liberal ideologue tried to give a speech at a chamber of commerce meeting, or an old folks home. He would get booed.

Too bad.... So sad.

Part of "freedom of speech", is that you CAN shout someone down and tell them to go fvck themselves if they say things you think are gross.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dre said:

Pretty funny OP. 

Those liberals chanting is ALSO an expression of free speech. Look... college campuses are full of students and teachers... both strong liberal demographics. Its just naturally going to be an unfriendly place for conservative idealogues, just like if a liberal ideologue tried to give a speech at a chamber of commerce meeting, or an old folks home. He would get booed.

Too bad.... So sad.

Part of "freedom of speech", is that you CAN shout someone down and tell them to go fvck themselves if they say things you think are gross.

 

Sure...you can think that way. But, in reality, it wouldn't be freedom of speech if a group of masked thugs crashed your event and threatened violence. Left or right.

That's beer hall putsch stuff....go ahead and keep speaking, I'm just loading the machine gun.

[dre]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Sure...you can think that way. But, in reality, it wouldn't be freedom of speech if a group of masked thugs crashed your event and threatened violence. Left or right.

That's beer hall putsch stuff....go ahead and keep speaking, I'm just loading the machine gun.

Violent threats are crimes. Anyone doing that should be arrested and charged. 

In any case the phrase "freedom of speech" has never meant you cant shout someone down. It means the government cant make laws the prohibit unpopular speech or certain kinds of speech... although the courts have upheld certain limits (hate speech laws which are bad IMO, yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre, or "BOMB" on an airplane"). Violent people or people that threaten violence should be prosecuted.

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dre said:

Violent threats are crimes. Anyone doing that should be arrested and charged. 

In any case the phrase "freedom of speech" has never meant you cant shout someone down. It means the government cant make laws the prohibit unpopular speech or certain kinds of speech... although the courts have upheld certain limits (hate speech laws which are bad IMO, yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre, or "BOMB" on an airplane"). Violent people or people that threaten violence should be prosecuted.

 

Berkeley and similar events say that's not the reality.

[Argus]

14 minutes ago, dre said:

Part of "freedom of speech", is that you CAN shout someone down and tell them to go fvck themselves if they say things you think are gross.

It's no surprise you have no understanding of what freedom of speech is all about.

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, dre said:

Violent threats are crimes. Anyone doing that should be arrested and charged. 

In any case the phrase "freedom of speech" has never meant you cant shout someone down. It means the government cant make laws the prohibit unpopular speech or certain kinds of speech..

So it's okay that people (like you) have no respect for freedom of speech as long as the government doesn't do anything?

 

[Argus]

Idiot Trump supporters decided to hold a 'free speech' rally in Portland. Now not being a Trump supporter I'd be like meh, and simply ignore it. But that's not the mentality of some on the Left, so of course, they gathered in their hoodies and black masks - with weapons.

If you want to get an idea of just how high tensions are running in Portland, Ore., where rival protest groups have clashed repeatedly in recent months, you could start by looking at the caches of weapons seized by police at a demonstration over the weekend in the city’s downtown.

There are axes and crowbars, dozens of sticks and makeshift clubs, canisters of mace, knives, hammers, batons and even a set of brass knuckles. Together, they offer an unsettling glimpse of the violence that has seeped into Portland’s protests as the city has drawn extremists on the left and right in increasing numbers, becoming something of a proxy for the country’s ideological battles.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/police-seize-knives-axes-crowbars-bricks-and-more-from-armed-portland-ore-protestors

Edited June 5, 2017 by Argus

[dre]

Just now, Argus said:

So it's okay that people (like you) have no respect for freedom of speech as long as the government doesn't do anything?

 

Yup, totally fine.  I can tell you to shut the fvck up for whatever reason I feel like. That speech is protected too. Look... you blab on about the "forces of the left" and that kind of moronic bullshit. The reality is that 90% of this country is to the left of you. 

So you and people like you feel like you are VICTIMS. The media is out to get me! The schools are out to get me! The poor are out to get me!. People don't want to here what your acolytes have say because they think its stupid. Get used to it, because its not going to change.

[DogOnPorch]

Bull Run

[Argus]

14 hours ago, kimmy said:

Argus proposes that "they will have rallies and shout at us" and "they will call us fascists or meanies" are powerful forms of oppression, perhaps he is right.  What about "this will scare away advertisers"?  "The Moral Majority" and its descendants have been trying to silence messages they don't agree with for decades. 

Once again, I'm talking about Canada. Perhaps you've heard of the place. And most of those trying to silence advertisers here are the BLM crowd.

14 hours ago, kimmy said:

I assume this is completely different, since this kind of attempt at suppressing opposing views doesn't involve shouting at people or calling them rude things.

Or punching them in the face. Or hitting them on the head with clubs. 

I guess that we are headed for the US, and that people seem to want it to go that way. I hope they're happy when our own Trump is elected.

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, dre said:

Yup, totally fine.  I can tell you to shut the fvck up for whatever reason I feel like.

You can. But if you come into a hall where I'm giving a lecture and start screaming and won't shut up you need to be dragged off in handcuffs.

Quote

That speech is protected too. Look... you blab on about the "forces of the left" and that kind of moronic bullshit. The reality is that 90% of this country is to the left of you. 

I guess Trump supporters are a lot like this. Like you, the media they consume never offers up a hint of challenge to their world view, and never challenges their preconceptions. Indeed, it does everything it can to reinforce their beliefs. Your view of life is through the eye of the CBC and other left wing media, and it hasn't ever struck you as even possible that there are vast numbers of Canadians who don't share your beliefs.

And when you find one you become angry. How dare someone disagree with you!? They must be silenced! 

The new fascists are not on the Right, but on the Left.

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by Argus

[dre]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Once again, I'm talking about Canada. Perhaps you've heard of the place. And most of those trying to silence advertisers here are the BLM crowd.

Or punching them in the face. Or hitting them on the head with clubs. 

I guess that we are headed for the US, and that people seem to want it to go that way. I hope they're happy when our own Trump is elected.

Speaking of freedom of speech, remember all those leftist economic protests after bankers and wealthy investors crashed the world economy by committing massive fraud? Well the police (government) in canada actually planted agent provocateurs in those camps to incite violence, so that the protesters could be rounded up. Can I take a wild guess that you didnt make posts about freedom of speech then? LOL.

 

[Argus]

Just now, dre said:

Speaking of freedom of speech, remember all those leftist economic protests after bankers and wealthy investors crashed the world economy by committing massive fraud? Well the police (government) in canada actually planted agent provocateurs in those camps to incite violence, so that the protesters could be rounded up. Can I take a wild guess that you didnt make posts about freedom of speech then? LOL.

My opinions on the financial crisis and those responsible are a matter of easily found record here. And while it might surprise your cliche'd view of me they aren't flattering to the financial establishment.

Extremists like you don't understand how some people can take an even-handed view of things. I've written a lot of nasty things about the RCMP and Toronto Police for their actions against Left wing protesters in Toronto and Vancouver. I also don't think much of Trump or his supporters, but I feel contempt for those trying to shut them down. Similarly, while not pro life I think they have the right to their marches and speeches.

I'm not as narrow-focused as you. As much as I disdain much of the world views of 'the other side' I don't hate them, and I feel they have the right to explain themselves and state their opinions.