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Liberals want to allow people to advocate terrorism


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1 hour ago, -1=e^ipi said:

So if I advocate that terrorist tactics such as blowing up slave ships (property) or freeing slaves (property) without permission of slave owners for the political purpose of stopping slavery, then you think I should be thrown in jail?

 

How about using terrorism to stop nazis from killing jews? Is it not acceptable to advocate for that?

Terrorism generally involves getting someone to do something by hurting someone else, so if you were going to kill some poor sods who had nothing to do with the killing of Jews, then, sure.  It's not.  If you wanted to kill the Nazis, I wouldn't call that terrorism.

The destruction of property?  Good point.  I don't know.  Should PETA be able to destroy labs?  Should Greenpeace be able to sabotage pipeline construction equipment or spike trees.  Should anarchists be free to call for the smashing of all Starbucks windows? It's easy enough to find an extreme example where everyone will agree, but what about when everyone doesn't?

Edited by bcsapper
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18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If you wanted to kill the Nazis, I wouldn't call that terrorism.

 

Why not? If I'm a German citizen in Nazi Germany that is actively killing Nazis to stop them killing jews in the name of the ideology of liberalism, then I am definitely a terrorist. I am a non-state actor committing violence against people in the state in the name of an ideology. That is terrorism.

 

18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Should PETA be able to destroy labs?

I'm arguing that not all terrorism is bad. That doesn't mean all terrorism is good or that I'm arguing that it is justified for PETA to destroy labs.

 

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28 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If you wanted to kill the Nazis, I wouldn't call that terrorism.

Terrorism isn't defined by one's personal opinion about what is justifiable killing.  From the perspective of the government, killing people to make a political point would be terrorism.  

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2 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

How about using terrorism to stop nazis from killing jews? Is it not acceptable to advocate for that?

 

Ever hear of Lidice? Yeah...Nazis were better at terror than terrorists. Your idea of scaring them out of killing Jews is almost comical.

2 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

 

Is saying that all non-Christians should be tortured in hell for the crime of not being Christian not creating ill-feeling towards non-Christians?
Is saying that all non-Muslims deserve to be tortured for eternity by Allah for the crime of not being Muslim not creating ill-feeling towards non-Muslims?
Is saying that gay people deserve to be tortured for eternity in hellfire for the crime of being gay not creating ill-feeling towards gay people?

If we were to make it illegal to create ill-feeling towards another group, then we we would have to ban Islam and Christianity, which would mean that we wouldn't have freedom of religion as a society.

 

The Quran commands that the Unbeliever be punished in this life and the next. (3:56)  This is why extra-judicial punishment is both allowed and encouraged among the faithful. Thou shalt not kill does not exist in the Quran. Only 5:32

Quran 5:32 states that it's okay to kill under certain conditions: killing soulless infidels causing 'corruption' (fasad) being permissible.

Big difference next to Xtianity.

Edited by DogOnPorch
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14 hours ago, dialamah said:

I think the Imams who were recorded preaching about the destruction of Jews should have been charged with hate speech, even though the words "Go kill you some Jews" were not part of the sermon; the request to kill Jews was made of God, not humans.

Maybe you should think about the fact the only time we find out about imams who say such things is when some outsider discovers is. 

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10 hours ago, dialamah said:

Terrorism isn't defined by one's personal opinion about what is justifiable killing.  From the perspective of the government, killing people to make a political point would be terrorism.  

Well, I meant if the Nazis were the "enemy".  I assumed, because of the reference to Jews, that -1=e^ipi meant actual German WWII Nazis.  Acceptable targets for anyone.

If we're talking about the local chapter of Aryan Nation, I would just call the Police.

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10 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

 

Why not? If I'm a German citizen in Nazi Germany that is actively killing Nazis to stop them killing jews in the name of the ideology of liberalism, then I am definitely a terrorist. I am a non-state actor committing violence against people in the state in the name of an ideology. That is terrorism.

 

I'm arguing that not all terrorism is bad. That doesn't mean all terrorism is good or that I'm arguing that it is justified for PETA to destroy labs.

 

If you're killing non-nazis to make the point, I would say you shouldn't, and I would make advocating such, illegal. Actually, even if you're killing Nazis who were simply members of the party, but had nothing to do with the atrocities, I would say you were wrong in that too.  It would be like Islamophobia. 

The original argument was whether or not advocating terrorism in a general sense should be legal, while only the advocating of a specific act should be illegal. (I think.  I'm not going back and reading it again) Why should your specific act be any more acceptable than PETA's?

 

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15 hours ago, bcsapper said:

while only the advocating of a specific act should be illegal. (I think.  I'm not going back and reading it again) Why should your specific act be any more acceptable than PETA's

I'm confused by what you are trying to ask. My position is that advocacy for terrorism (any terrorism) should be legal as long as it doesn't fall under conspiracy to commit a crime.

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1 minute ago, -1=e^ipi said:

I'm confused by what you are trying to ask. My position is that advocacy for terrorism (any terrorism) should be legal as long as it doesn't fall under conspiracy to commit a crime.

 

As long as YOU'RE not planting the bomb??? Screw that. You're coming downtown...

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9 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

I'm confused by what you are trying to ask. My position is that advocacy for terrorism (any terrorism) should be legal as long as it doesn't fall under conspiracy to commit a crime.

And what if all your conversations for terrorism mange to convince some 18 year old that terrorism is cool, and he kills himself and others.....is that again'st the law,  i mean terrorism is an act of violence....and your inciting that act are you not....Is any message about terrorism worth all that, the guilt of knowing your comments could be responsible for those deaths.....

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10 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

I'm confused by what you are trying to ask. My position is that advocacy for terrorism (any terrorism) should be legal as long as it doesn't fall under conspiracy to commit a crime.

Incitement to violence is a crime.  I would suggest advocating terrorism is an incitement to violence.  Is it that a position that you disagree with?

My point with regard to PETA was that, given your position, it seemed you wanted to decide which terrorism was okay and which was not. I suppose that's because I can't think of terrorism that isn't criminal.

Edited by bcsapper
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Terrorism is not just the act of violence, but the political message that accompanies it. In many cases the violent act is fairly minor. Terrorist action doesn't necessarily even need to be successful but for the fact that it sends a certain message.

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On 2017-05-04 at 2:59 AM, betsy said:

 

Liberals are creating such havoc.  Canada is going downhill fast!

Too bad they still have a few years before the next election.....and who knows, they might still win again!  Their supporters think like them!

Yes Canada is in poor condition.  The secular-humanistic philosophy is rampant in Canada.  This has led to confusion in many people's mind.  If they are looking to the government for any kind of moral guidance, they are making a tragic mistake.  The problem is many people are willing to look anywhere for guidance or wisdom except the one place they should be looking, which is the Bible.  By dismissing the Bible, they commit their lives to confusion and many problems.  I am not saying following the Bible will mean there are no problems.  My experience is that christians often face daunting problems.  But there are certain advantages to being a christian that the secular world or other religions cannot offer. There is no such thing is wisdom apart from the Bible.

 

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44 minutes ago, blackbird said:

By dismissing the Bible, they condemn themselves.   There is no such thing is wisdom apart from the Bible.  All else is foolishness.

Wow!  Substitute the word "Quran" for the word "Bible" and you've got exactly what a Muslim woman said the other day, when I objected to her insistence that Muslim women had to wear hijab.

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5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Wow!  Substitute the word "Quran" for the word "Bible" and you've got exactly what a Muslim woman said the other day, when I objected to her insistence that Muslim women had to wear hijab.

Just goes to show, every religion has its nut cases. 

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9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Wow!  Substitute the word "Quran" for the word "Bible" and you've got exactly what a Muslim woman said the other day, when I objected to her insistence that Muslim women had to wear hijab.

Interesting.   I wish I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with her.  If you had been a Bible-believing christian you would have had something tremendous to offer her.

It is not too late.  You could become a Bible-believing christian right now and if you can see her, you will have something.   

I thought the hijab was not a requirement for a Muslim woman to wear.   Isn't it more of a tradition or custom?

The Quran falls far short of being a Bible or Holy Scripture.   It does not meet the criteria for different reasons.

Edited by blackbird
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3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Depends what religion and what you mean by "nut case".  

Yes, I'm probably going to get into trouble for that.   Still, saying there is no wisdom other than the Bible is nuts.  Sorry. 

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17 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yes, I'm probably going to get into trouble for that.   Still, saying there is no wisdom other than the Bible is nuts.  Sorry. 

It was a brash statement for me to make without giving some evidence.  The claim is actually based on what God says in the Bible.  I said it partly to get your attention.  I knew you would respond.

It is in the book of Proverbs, written mostly by King Solomon, who was considered one of the wisest men in the world at the time.  He wrote most of the book of Proverbs under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit.  If you read the Proverbs you will understand that no ordinary mortal could have written it.

For example, it says "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Proberbs ch1 vs7

---King James Bible (1611)

Edited by blackbird
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44 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Wow!  Substitute the word "Quran" for the word "Bible" and you've got exactly what a Muslim woman said the other day, when I objected to her insistence that Muslim women had to wear hijab.

I don't think there are any Muslims in this town.  At least I don't recall seeing any.  Once when I was visiting Thunder Bay and going to the bank, I saw one covered from head to toe and her face was covered except her eyes.  She was in the lineup for the teller as I was.  She did smile.  I thought she was friendly.    When she smiled, it made a whole different impression on me.  Makes one feel there is someone like myself, that maybe I could relate to, under that black covering.

 

Sorry, I now realize I drifted from the topic which is terrorism and Liberal

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

It was a brash statement for me to make without giving some evidence.  The claim is actually based on what God says in the Bible.  I said it partly to get your attention.  I knew you would respond.

It is in the book of Proverbs, written mostly by King Solomon, who was considered one of the wisest men in the world at the time.  He wrote most of the book of Proverbs under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit.  If you read the Proverbs you will understand that no ordinary mortal could have written it.

For example, it says "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Proberbs ch1 vs7

---King James Bible (1611)

One thing I know. An ordinary mortal wrote every word in the Bible. 

I knew fools despise wisdom and instruction just from being on here. 

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On 2017-05-05 at 11:07 AM, DogOnPorch said:

As long as YOU'RE not planting the bomb??? Screw that. You're coming downtown...

Or if they are planning to plant a bomb.

 

But if people are just questioning to morality of planting bombs, that should be allowed.

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18 hours ago, Army Guy said:

And what if all your conversations for terrorism mange to convince some 18 year old that terrorism is cool, and he kills himself and others....

If we go by that standard, we'd have to ban a lot of things to be consistent. Some teenage girls in Oregan thought that Slenderman was cool and tried to kill a schoolmate to sacrifice to Slenderman. Does that mean we should ban Slenderman? How about all the people killing in the name of Islam? Does that mean we should ban islam as well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man_stabbing

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18 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Incitement to violence is a crime.  I would suggest advocating terrorism is an incitement to violence.  Is it that a position that you disagree with?

If you want to define it as incitement to violence or not, I don't really care.

 

But if we go down this route, is advocacy of capital punishment for mass murders not incitement to violence? In that case, should we make it illegal to advocate for capital punishment?

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14 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't think there are any Muslims in this town.  At least I don't recall seeing any.  Once when I was visiting Thunder Bay and going to the bank, I saw one covered from head to toe and her face was covered except her eyes.  She was in the lineup for the teller as I was.  She did smile.  I thought she was friendly.    When she smiled, it made a whole different impression on me.  Makes one feel there is someone like myself, that maybe I could relate to, under that black covering.

 

If her face was covered except for her eyes, how did you know she was smiling?

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