Changing the Constitution - Turkiye

[Wilber]

4 hours ago, Altai said:

You are lying. According to the new constitution, presidency elections are done once in every 5 years. In the ex-constitution, it was once in every 4 years. 

Link: http://bit.ly/2hU58aX  (Article 77)


You will be ignored if you cant show me an official document that proves its done in every 12 years. 

It seems you are correct. 

The last thing that concerns me is your ignore list. I wasn't aware I was off but feel free to put me back on any time.

 

 

 

[kactus]

3 hours ago, Altai said:

Kactus, you are making claims and you reject to back up your claims, because its highly probable you have zero knowledge of what you are talking about. You are just talking based on your imagine World which is supported by the false propaganda machines in your countries. 

If there is no logic, so science, I am not there. I tried my best to communicate with you but you just reject it. Now I will put you in ignore, sorry for you, bye...

Altai, I am not making any claims. Just because other's views are different from your understanding does not make it wrong. You have to learn to stop this lecturing by telling who has zero knowledge . This is a forum not school.....

[Altai]

10 minutes ago, Wilber said:

It seems you are correct. 

The last thing that concerns me is your ignore list. I wasn't aware I was off but feel free to put me back on any time.

I am not interested to ignore anyone. I am here for honest and intelligent conversations as it is meant in forum rules and guidelines. You are making claims and I am asking for proof or evidences. Its such simple to be friend with me. You just should not lie. 


Okay its nice that you accepted you were lying. Now please give me a journalist name which I wanted you to give and you posted a list. I wanted you to choose a name from the list to see why he/she is sentenced. 

You have two options, you will accept that you were lying in this issue too or you will show me a single journalist sentenced for being a journalist. If you cant do that, I will put you in ignore. You have 30 minutes and it started, go !!! 

[kactus]

20 minutes ago, Wilber said:

It seems you are correct. 

The last thing that concerns me is your ignore list. I wasn't aware I was off but feel free to put me back on any time.

 

 

 

In a country that is so closely watched and people are persecuted for their opposition to Erdogan it is illogical to ask for the level of granularity of details she is asking like the names of journalists....

 

[Wilber]

2 minutes ago, kactus said:

In a country that is so closely watched and people are persecuted for their opposition to Erdogan it is illogical to ask for the level of granularity of details she is asking like the names of journalists....

 

I looked it up and she is correct in that the new constitution calls for two five term limits after the next election in 2019. I was wrong but if she is going to call me a liar every time I disagree with something she says, I have nothing more to say to her. 

[Altai]

28 minutes ago, Wilber said:

I looked it up and she is correct in that the new constitution calls for two five term limits after the next election in 2019. I was wrong but if she is going to call me a liar every time I disagree with something she says, I have nothing more to say to her. 

 Okay if you reject to give a name, then I choose a random name, Necmiye Alpay, a woman "journalist", who was working for a newspaper named "Ozgur Gundem", it was a newspaper openly making terrorism propaganda, then some of its "authors" were detained for being members of the terror organization and then they were released and releasing them was a huge mistake, probably they were released by FETO member judicial organs. 

Below just two examples from the news done by their newspaper;

First link title is "We are all together for fight !!! We are all together for a war !!!" (Calling people for a war against the government.)  http://bit.ly/2oPgr6l

Second link title is "We exist with our martyrs" (which they call as martyrs are killed Pkk terror organization members) http://bit.ly/2pJ3LLm


What a "journalism", is not it, anyway now I put you in ignore Wilber, nice to meet you, bye ...

Edited April 17, 2017 by Altai

[Wilber]

41 minutes ago, Altai said:

 Okay if you reject to give a name, then I choose a random name, Necmiye Alpay, a woman "journalist", who was working for a newspaper named "Ozgur Gundem", it was a newspaper openly making terrorism propaganda, then some of its "authors" were detained for being members of the terror organization and then they were released and releasing them was a huge mistake, probably they were released by FETO member judicial organs. 

Below just two examples from the news done by their newspaper;

First link title is "We are all together for fight !!! We are all together for a war !!!" (Calling people for a war against the government.)  http://bit.ly/2oPgr6l

Second link title is "We exist with our martyrs" (which they call as martyrs are killed Pkk terror organization members) http://bit.ly/2pJ3LLm


What a "journalism", is not it, anyway now I put you in ignore Wilber, nice to meet you, bye ...

I never said anything about journalists.

 

[GostHacked]

7 hours ago, Altai said:

This is not a private forum. This is a private owned public forum. Its open to anyone. The admins and moderators of this forum recognizes the logic and they prohibits insults. Because they logically recognizes that insults has no positive effects on freedom of speech and therefore its not a part of freedom of speech.

If I insult you, should I go to jail?

If so, WHY should I go to jail?

The other question is ,  is warranted criticism  being mistaken for insults?

Edited April 17, 2017 by GostHacked

[Goddess]

Just because your feelings are hurt, doesn't necessarily mean the other person did anything wrong.

[Altai]

20 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

If I insult you, should I go to jail?

If so, WHY should I go to jail?

The other question is ,  is warranted criticism  being mistaken for insults?

I replied these questions in my pre posts, especially in my posts to @bcsapper

If we want to proceed in an issue, we should get rid of vicious cycles, for example asking the same question over and over again many times by different posters. 


 

[Rue]

Lol this is someone who banishes people on her censor list the moment they disagree with her, complains to the moderator about insults to her while delivering them regularly and tells people what they are allowed to discuss and what they are allowed to say in their responses.

Lol. The language in "her" responses range from perfect English to broken fragmented illiterate incomplete thoughts.

See for me  this is the great thing about forums. Anyone can come on them and pose as anything. Interesting Altai is the lone thread creator or participant who admits they are Muslim and at least she does not use a name that "sounds" British like oh say Baffin Smith or James Cove or I don't know say Thompon River or  Iris or  Aloe Vera or gosh let's see  Dray Dull.

Now as for the  defence of Erdogan let's just respond with this because it says it all:

"Most experts agree, though, that whether the joiner is young or old, certain predisposing factors may facilitate attraction to a cultic system, the success of recruitment and indoctrination efforts, and the length and depth of involvement. These factors include:

• A desire to belong
• Unassertiveness (the inability to say no or express criticism or doubt)
• Gullibility (impaired capacity to question critically what one is told, observes, thinks, and so forth)
• Low tolerance for ambiguity (need for absolute answers, impatience to obtain answers)
• Cultural disillusionment (alienation, dissatisfaction with the status quo)
• Idealism
• Susceptibility to trance-like states (in some cases, perhaps, due to prior hallucinogenic drug experiences)
• A lack of self-confidence
• A desire for spiritual meaning
• Ignorance of how groups can manipulate individuals."

source:http://www.apologeticsindex.org/265-who-joins-cults-and-why

Erdogan has created a cult and a dictatorship. The question is just how long does the Turkish military sit back on this one as it

has with all his other power grabs? There will be a violent civil war in Turkey in the next year and/or a military coups.

No problem "Altai" can come to Canada as a refugee. All you have to do is cross the border illegally and presto, yoy get free dental, medica,, free drug prescriptions a motel and hey Justin will come pose for a photo and hand out a rain coat.

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Rue

[GostHacked]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

I replied these questions in my pre posts, especially in my posts to @bcsapper

If we want to proceed in an issue, we should get rid of vicious cycles, for example asking the same question over and over again many times by different posters. 


 

I've read over those posts and nothing in there answers the questions I raised.

[kactus]

I mean seriously in a country like Turkey that is trying to address the concerns of disenfranchised voters from like CHP, MHP, etc, the islamists have gained the upper hand and are trying to quash the voice of the opposition. What people fail to realise is that Turkey despite all the modernisation plans of Ataturk is still a deeply conservative country with its roots in Islam. That's what a lot of westerners cannot get and will never understand......This has always been there and it will always remain there.....

At the same time, modern Turkey’s history has also been nondemocratic, repressive, and sometimes violent and Erdogan will use this as an opportunity to bolster his position in a region quite ripe for implosion from external to internal forces. The systematic arrests and expulsion of oppositions to Erdogan is just the tip of the iceberg. There's more to come...

[Ash74]

13 hours ago, Altai said:

Ash, I think I should put you in ignore again. You posted a link of a news done by a Western newspapers with a misleading title. You didnt even read or understand its content, I showed you the related part that the person is detained for insult crime. You still meant that its detained for not serving coffee. I really have no tolerance for dishonest persons. You are also supposed to be honest in forum rules. You are ignored, bye...

So for those that did not like that source here is another

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/opposition-paper-s-cafeteria-manager-jailed-after-allegedly-insulting-turkish-president-1.3912781

 

So I am curious about how I was being dishonest?

[Altai]

10 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I've read over those posts and nothing in there answers the questions I raised.

Okay, now I will show you my replies and this is going to be my last post in this forum. This forum has perfect rules but these rules are not applied most of the time. Another points is people are stuck in vicious circles which is called as "discussion". Many of posters are here to make their believes facts and impose on others. I really cant waste my time with that. Nice to meet you and bye to all.


Below you said that;

Quote

 

If I insult you, should I go to jail?

If so, WHY should I go to jail?

The other question is ,  is warranted criticism  being mistaken for insults?

 

And I said that;

Quote

 

I replied these questions in my pre posts, especially in my posts to @bcsapper

If we want to proceed in an issue, we should get rid of vicious cycles, for example asking the same question over and over again many times by different posters.

 

Now I will show you the replies for your questions from my pre-post;

First question was; If I insult you, should I go to jail ?

In below posts, I openly meant that its against the constitution,  so if you perform something against the constitution, you may be sentenced in various ways...pay penalty or jail or free service...

Quote

In my country, insult is not accepted as a part of freedom of speech for the same reason why its not also accepted as a part of freedom of speech in this forum. 

Quote

.....If we are agree in this part, you legally have no right to harm another person....

Second question was;  If so, WHY should I go to jail?

I have replied this question too and I tried to explain what are the good and bad sides of insulting. You will see in below posts;
 

Quote

In my country, insult is not accepted as a part of freedom of speech for the same reason why its not also accepted as a part of freedom of speech in this forum

Quote

 

People are free to express their ideas. Insults are not ideas but hate speeches. Your freedom ends when you start to violate other's rights. If you think that you have right to insult me, I have right to live in peace without being disturbed by others, you dont have right to attack me and disturb me just because of you want to do so. 

Its also forobidden in this forum because we all know that insult is not a part of freedom of speech. 

 

Quote

 

Are we agree that human beings are creatures with feelings and they will feel bad when they have been insulted ? 

If we are agree in this part, you legally have no right to harm another person. If you have a problem with me, you need to go to a court with your proofs and evidences. You dont have right to harm me just because of you dont like me.

 

Quote

Right not to be offended ??? So this is like saying "I will shot you but try not to die, you dont have right to die".

Quote

We have to speak scientific. This is why I was asked you that whether or not we are agree on being insulted will cause someone to feel bad and will directly harm her/his life. If you say "no we are not agree", then I will try to put scientific articles on the table. Here we are supposed to share informations, I am not interested with believes or your mind. I am interested with facts.

Quote

 

Here an example article; http://bit.ly/1PyugNu

You would insult me if it was no affect on me but as I said, we are not robots, we have feelings. We dont have right to harm other people because we does not like them or does not like something about them. 

 

Quote

So now we are agree that it has bad effects on people, so it harm people and their life in a negative manner. Your freedom ends when you start to harm others. You cant throw your garbages in the middle of the road, because you are not allowed to harm others. You cant scream in the middle of the road all day long, because you are not allowed to harm others. You cant cut the trees in a park, because you are not allowed to harm others. You cant drink alcohol in public, because you are not allowed to harm others. You cant insult people, because you are not allowed to harm others.

Quote

What is the positive sides of insulting someones when it comes to democracy ? What kind of benefits it has ? It should have some benefits that has an un-ignorable effects on the positive development of democracy. 

Finally the third question was; The other question is ,  is warranted criticism  being mistaken for insults?

The answer for this question is in the replies for the second question. I tried to explain why its not accepted a part of "criticism". So criticism mean "disapproval expressed by pointing out faults or shortcomings" according to its dictionary meaning. So criticism have to include an idea, insults are used to humiliate somethings/someones, not to express ideas in a constructive manner. The aim of freedom of speech is to have different/various ideas in a constructive manner, to find out what is true and what is wrong. For example telling someone; "This was a wrong action" is freedom of speech, telling the same person "You are an idiot" is an insult. 

 

[GostHacked]

6 hours ago, Altai said:

Finally the third question was; The other question is ,  is warranted criticism  being mistaken for insults?

The answer for this question is in the replies for the second question. I tried to explain why its not accepted a part of "criticism". So criticism mean "disapproval expressed by pointing out faults or shortcomings" according to its dictionary meaning. So criticism have to include an idea, insults are used to humiliate somethings/someones, not to express ideas in a constructive manner. The aim of freedom of speech is to have different/various ideas in a constructive manner, to find out what is true and what is wrong. For example telling someone; "This was a wrong action" is freedom of speech, telling the same person "You are an idiot" is an insult.

 

Insulting someone is not grounds for jail time. That's very oppressive and stifles free speech, period.  Freedom of speech includes insulting , blasphemy and the like. Even hate speech is free speech.  However people will be publicly ostracized when they get on the hate speech. 

Jail time is not effective in correcting the issue of Erdogan seeking more power via 'referendums'. Moving Turkey from a democratic trend to a dictatorship. If that is considered an insult, then Turkey has more of a problem than previously thought.

[marcus]

It is not accidental that Donald Trump's White House was quick to call Erdogan to congratulate him on his victory --the US and Turkey now share two identically megalomaniac leaders.

Unfortunately, one of the most democratically robust political cultures in the Muslim world is now manipulated by a power monger tyrant towards undemocratic terrains.

Nearly 49% of Turks voted AGAINST Erdogan's outrageous power grab, plus credible reports of fraud are clear indications that this "victory" was manufactured for Sultan Abdul Hamid wannabe Erdogan

[kactus]

9 minutes ago, marcus said:

It is not accidental that Donald Trump's White House was quick to call Erdogan to congratulate him on his victory --the US and Turkey now share two identically megalomaniac leaders.

Unfortunately, one of the most democratically robust political cultures in the Muslim world is now manipulated by a power monger tyrant towards undemocratic terrains.

Nearly 49% of Turks voted AGAINST Erdogan's outrageous power grab, plus credible reports of fraud are clear indications that this "victory" was manufactured for Sultan Abdul Hamid wannabe Erdogan

Of course there was a fraud in the whole election process but the bigger issue is the power that Erdogan is grabbing will have serious consequences for Turkey's future.

It's a bad news and many Turks I have spoken to are very disappointed.....

[overthere]

Turkey: new home of fascism.  Goosestepping lessons Mondays and Thursdays.

 

Bloodshed is inevitable.

 

Ataturk would be absolutely horrified by these events.  Turkey just took a huge step backwards into the arms of oppressive elements of fundamental Islamic ideology.  I expect we'll see Erdogan start bombing his own Kurds soon.  Why? Because he can, now.  And the Kurdish regions of Turkey, Iraq and Syria will explode into a war that will make Syria look like a minor spat.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Good to see Erdogan's thugs charged in Washington DC:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/us-police-charge-12-turkish-security-agents-make-two-arrests/

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[Altai]

Recep Tayyip Erdogan have been elected as the first President of the "presidential system" of the Turkiye in the history with total 52% of the votes of people against 3 opponents of him.

Turkiye's presidecy election also had one of the highest participation rate in the World history with 87,5%. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Altai