Benz Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 On 2017-03-20 at 3:35 PM, Newfoundlander said: You're not really making any sense to me. But why exactly would we want to send someone who committed a terrorist attack back to whichever country they were born in? I'd feel much safer knowing they're locked up in a Canadian prison. I explained the opposite. I do not care about what happen to the terrorist or a so called right for immigrants to stay canadians forever. What I care is, as you say, I prefer to lock them up here, (keep your enemies closer) and also, I prefer that the family and close ones of a protential terrorist collaborate with the authorities without having the fear that their close one lose its citizenship just by association with terorism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Benz said: I explained the opposite. I do not care about what happen to the terrorist or a so called right for immigrants to stay canadians forever. What I care is, as you say, I prefer to lock them up here, (keep your enemies closer) and also, I prefer that the family and close ones of a protential terrorist collaborate with the authorities without having the fear that their close one lose its citizenship just by association with terorism. They're not immigrants if they become Canadian citizens. Edited March 22, 2017 by Newfoundlander 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Newfoundlander said: They're not immigrants if they become Canadian citizens. Exactly! I bet you there are many members on this very forum who immigrated to Canada one way or another and are now citizens. It doesn't make a slight difference if your a from a Muslim, Christian or Judaism or any other faith....You are now Canadian provided you have not harmed anyone. Edited March 22, 2017 by kactus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Prime Minister Justin Trudeau delivered this message for those immigrant Canadian Citizens yesterday: It is a nice gesture that some governments give a recognition to these festivities as did Obama during his presidency and make people welcome to integrate into their society. Nowruz, which marks the beginning of a New Year in Spring is celebrated by persians and many communities around the world superceding a firework. It has its roots in the old zoroastrianism. Edited March 22, 2017 by kactus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Something that couldn't happen in Canada. Germany is deporting two men born in Germany who they suspect of having terrorist sympathies. They were never convicted of anything, but the men were caught with a gun, an ISIS flag, and were suspected of planning a terrorist attack. They will be gone within the month. How can Germany do this? First, their court system apparently does not require years of appeals to deport someone. Second, even though the men were born in Germany they are not Germany citizens. Like most countries, Germany automatically grants citizenship only to those born to at least one German parent. These men were the sons of immigrants. So they are being deported to Algeria and Nigeria, respectively. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39348270 Edited March 22, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 18 hours ago, dialamah said: People come out of Canadian prisons with PTSD due to the violence and living conditions, so its not really that much of a joke. You might think that doesn't matter, they're criminals and shouldn't have it rough. That's not a problem until they get out of prison and can't function effectively in society because of it. I think @Newfoundlander makes a good point that deporting terrorists may only make them more of a threat because unless that country agrees to jail that person permanently, they can simply work from outside the country. How likely is it that Canada has agreements with all these countries to jail people our legal system has convicted? Your not talking about the ones that were posted on here are you, with beaches, cabins, fire pits, BBQ's.....Ya they got it really bad, 3 square meals a day, a roof over there heads to protect them from the environment, guards and cameras everywhere, while here in our own streets our homeless suffer much worse and they have not been convicted of anything.....lots of Canadians suffer more than our convicts do.....and they manage to stay out of prison, obey the rules of law....and are we concern about them functioning in society.... Do you think Canada is going to jail a terrorist for any great period of time....because our history says other wise, look at Omar....look at the FLQ gang, sent to cuba, with some of them living in Canada right now , free and clear....Yes we have new laws that not allow 25 years to be assigned for each person killed....but it is just a recent law, and i have no doubt it will be repealed for some humanitarian reason.... If you had read my post it says if a terrorist commits a terrorist act in Canada by all means apply the full weight of Canadian law lock him up in a Canadian jail........However if the Terrorist act was committed in another country then we should deport them to that country to face the criminal charges of terrorism.....do you really think that this country is just going to let him go, after committing a terrorist act in their country....not likely...And i'm sure one does not have to have a treaty to return criminals if both states are willing to do the exchange....NO our concerns are will they will likely kill them out right, or will they torture them....that is what stops Canada from returning bad guys to muslim countries....not because they will let them go.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benz Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 6 hours ago, Newfoundlander said: They're not immigrants if they become Canadian citizens. Yes they are. There are two ways to become a canadian. By birth on the land and by immigration. Once you are Canadian, you have the same rights. But revoking the citizenship of a canadian who become canadian throught immigration is not a problem for me on the principle. It is a problem regarding the potential consequences I have explained in my previous post. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: If you had read my post it says if a terrorist commits a terrorist act in Canada by all means apply the full weight of Canadian law lock him up in a Canadian jail... What about all the terrorists who have aided and abetted the illegal invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and the 70 years long terrorism against Cuba that the UNGA, the entire world except for Israel and the US, has been saying stop the terrorism against Cuba? What country's prison should they go into? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Hi Hot Enough - this isn't on-topic, please don't drift the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 21 hours ago, Newfoundlander said: So were the people that built this country 100 years ago not as "Canadian" as you because their roots in the country weren't as deep? You are right and then it is the rest of us that were born here that built this place up. But this is now ,not then and we need to change the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, PIK said: You are right and then it is the rest of us that were born here that built this place up. But this is now ,not then and we need to change the rules. Yeah, we need rules like Germany that say we can deport you at any time, and which removes automatic citizenship to people born here unless their parents are Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Argus said: Yeah, we need rules like Germany that say we can deport you at any time, and which removes automatic citizenship to people born here unless their parents are Canadian. If born here you should be exempt,no matter how stupid you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Benz said: Yes they are. There are two ways to become a canadian. By birth on the land and by immigration. Once you are Canadian, you have the same rights. But revoking the citizenship of a canadian who become canadian throught immigration is not a problem for me on the principle. It is a problem regarding the potential consequences I have explained in my previous post. Yet there has never been a distinction between these "two types" of Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 25 minutes ago, PIK said: You are right and then it is the rest of us that were born here that built this place up. But this is now ,not then and we need to change the rules. So f**k the people who are going to help build Canada for the next 150? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, Newfoundlander said: So f**k the people who are going to help build Canada for the next 150? No, just make it more affordable for people here to have kids. But I would love to see the breakdown of immigrants/refugees coming to canada. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Build Canada? Hardly. Destroy Canada. Canada needs to submit to Islam. That's what it will do...eventually. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, DogOnPorch said: Build Canada? Hardly. Destroy Canada. Canada needs to submit to Islam. That's what it will do...eventually. Oh right, I forgot every immigrant to this country was Islamic. And they're all bad people, correct? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, Newfoundlander said: Oh right, I forgot every immigrant to this country was Islamic. And they're all bad people, correct? Islam has a plan. You're free to pretend otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 minute ago, PIK said: No, just make it more affordable for people here to have kids. But I would love to see the breakdown of immigrants/refugees coming to canada. Affordability isn't the only reason people aren't popping out 4, 6, 10 kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: Canada needs to submit to Islam. That's what it will do...eventually. Someone needs to get a grip. But I doubt that'll happen anytime soon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 2 hours ago, PIK said: If born here you should be exempt,no matter how stupid you are. Not if you're born to foreign parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Argus said: Not if you're born to foreign parents. This dude in London was born in the UK as a non-Muslim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Argus said: Not if you're born to foreign parents. Do you actually know the rules for becoming a citizen in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 minute ago, kactus said: Do you actually know the rules for becoming a citizen in Canada? Sort of like a cheap hooker...everyone who wants has had a ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Newfoundlander said: Yet there has never been a distinction between these "two types" of Canadians. Let's consider this through the lens of the past. For most of our history, the world was a far bigger place. If you were going to get on a boat and come here you had to make a hell of a commitment. And once you got here, it was sink or swim. You worked your ass off to survive or, if you could somehow afford it, you gave up and went home (a lot of people did, though we don't talk much about that) The world is now a very small place. Immigrating to Canada is a matter of paperwork, and then half a day's trip. And when you get here you have full communication with 'home' as well as all the radio, television, movies, and newspapers from home every day. Let's look at my neighbor. He was born here to immigrant parents. But his parents thought he was blending in just a little too well, so they shipped him 'home' for high school to grow up like a 'proper muslim' should. He came back here as an adult, and when it was time to marry, his family arranged him a 'proper muslim' wife from back 'home'. He had several kids. It was quiet last summer, because he and his several kids and his wife spent the entire summer back 'home', making sure his kids knew the language and how to behave and the importance of all the family connections back there. What I'm getting at is that assimilation is much slower now than it used to be, and that people retain their old world values and prejudices MUCH longer than they used to, and are able to transfer them to the next generation much easier, and then the next after them. It is a small world, and immigrants no longer feel the need to commit themselves to Canada. Remember when Lebanon turned out to have 50,000 "Canadians" living there, all Lebanese immigrants whose commitment to Canada was, shall we say, less than complete. They'd gone 'home'. And what is the Trudeau government's response? Well, immigrants no longer have to make a formal commitment to live in Canada. How that helps Canada is beyond me. The Liberals also lowered the residency requirements to obtain citizenship. How THAT helps Canada is beyond me, too. Oh, one final thought. The gulf between our culture and values, and those of many of our source countries, has never been so great. That makes it that much more difficult for immigrants to assimilate and embrace our cultures as compared to people who came here in the past. Edited March 22, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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