You are ruled by Sharia

[Altai]

There are some verses in Quran that always abused by so-called Muslims or by kafirs. Some of these verses are openly abused while other verses are a bit more difficult to realize. I have personally realized that these verses puts "limitations". 

So one of the verse says that "fight them until they pay jizyah". So this verse does not mean "lets attack everyone and make them pay jizyah". This verse means "if you will have to fight them, fight them until they pays war reparations." So it puts a limit and tells Muslim where to stop or where not to stop. Dont stop until they finally accepts the defeat and accepts to pay war reparations and stop when they accept the defeat, dont exaggerate the issue more ! 

The word "cimzeye" which is the root of word "jizyah" is used totally 118 times in Quran and its used in these verses as "payment", "punishment", "reward", "recompense". 
Nowhere it means "tax" as so-called Muslims claims.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Altai

[Altai]

So Sharia defends the morality in war since last 1,5 milennium while many countries cannot do it today. 

 

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, Altai said:

So Sharia defends the morality in war since last 1,5 milennium while many countries cannot do it today. 

In countries with Sharia law, morality is not defended.  It is imposed unfairly on women, while men are excused from reponsibility for the crimes they commit on women.   Countries operating under Sharia law often also fail to protect minorities.

[Goddess]

Pew Research says that although Turkey is 90% Muslim, only 12% wanted to see Sharia law codified.

This would put Altai in the minority, even in "her" own country.

 

[?Impact]

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Pew Research says that although Turkey is 90% Muslim, only 12% wanted to see Sharia law codified.

This would put Altai in the minority, even in "her" own country.

What does she want is the real question. I have asked this a few times already, but have not received an answer: Is Sharia simply rules in how to live my life, or is it rules to be enforced by others on me?

[Rue]

Fact-sharia law does not allow women to pose and dress as Altai poses in her Avatar. I asked her to prove me wrong. She claims not me she is ruled by sharia law. Then how does she reconcile the two?

Ask her how she reconciles the following:

Sharia law states a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man and she can not marry without the permission of her current guardian Once married her husband becomes her guardian Men can have up to 4 wives, but women only 1 husband. A woman needs the consent of her busband to get divorced but not vice versa. If a woman wants to get her husband's consent to get divorced she must pay him back his dowry. Women accused of adultery are lashed or stoned to death. A Muslim woman's testimony like a non Muslim's has no worth in court. If a woman witnesses a crime, i.e., rape, she can't testify in court because that accusation would get her 80 lashes. Women are not allowed to speak to men they are not directly related to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Goddess]

29 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

What does she want is the real question.

That's for sure.

[Rue]

Now I have asked Altai to reconcile how a woman and sharia law co-exist and how she reconciles her alleged female identity with it. She refuses to respond. So I directly question again how she or any other woman especially one dressed in a way ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Iran would consider provocative and illegal reconciles this.

I find it inconceivable any modern woman would pose as she allegedly does on her avatar but endorses verbatum the Koran evidencing she quotes it but has no clue how its actually applied in daily life.

Now keep in mind this is someone who claims she supports Erdogan of Turkey.

Let's see what he says about women:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/24/turkeys-president-recep-tayyip-erdogan-women-not-equal-men

Here is just a snippet:

" He went on to say that women and men could not be treated equally “because it goes against the laws of nature”.

“Their characters, habits and physiques are different … You cannot place a mother breastfeeding her baby on an equal footing with men.

“You cannot make women work in the same jobs as men do, as in communist regimes. You cannot give them a shovel and tell them to do their work. This is against their delicate nature.”

Uh yah.

He clearly has no clue who Serena Williams is. Man I would love to put Erdogan in a room with Serena or my favourite Michelle Rodriquez for 5 minutes and have him say that,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rue]

Here are my favourite Koran verses on women:

• A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282 ; and males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11
• Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:15 ; but the wives of Mohammad will be punished double for lewdness! 33:30
• You can't have sex with married women, unless they are slaves obtained in war (with whom you may rape or do whatever you like). 4:24
• Don't pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43
• A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6
• The wives of Mohammad are not like other women. They must not leave their houses. 33:32-33 [a little controlling, aren't we Mohammad?] ; oh, and Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 33:50-51
• If men must speak to Muhammad's wives they must speak from behind a curtain. And no one must ever marry one of his wives. 33:53
• The single-minded slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins. 37:40-48
• Allah will reward faithful Muslims after they die with "fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." 44:54
• Those in the Garden will be attended by immortal youths with wide, lovely eyes. 56:17-23
• Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31
• Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them. 4:34

Now if anyone thinks Altai is a young woman, good luck asking her how she lives with the above and won't challenge it.

I taught my daughters to think, to question, to challenge any man who defines them in the above manner.

If one of my daughters married someone who believed in the above or she told me she believed the above, I would feel I failed as a father.

The above exists. It continues to be taught mainstream. I have been in mosques and heard it repeated to young men and women who go out and promulgate it.

I've seen the results when its followers clash with existing Canadian laws and values towards women.

Many others have. We find it abhorrent.

 

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, Rue said:

• The single-minded slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins. 37:40-48
• Allah will reward faithful Muslims after they die with "fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." 44:54
• Those in the Garden will be attended by immortal youths with wide, lovely eyes. 56:17-23
• Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31

It appears that women are only allowed to show their lovely eyes after they're dead.

This would make Earth....Hell?  (At least for the women, I would guess.)

[Rue]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It appears that women are only allowed to show their lovely eyes after they're dead.

This would make Earth....Hell?  (At least for the women, I would guess.)

 

"Ask any  Jew or an Italian who the boss is and they'll say..  it sure as hell aint the one with the salami".

Rue 2017

" I met this young woman once, she told me she felt free by covering herself. I said aint that strange, I feel the same way when I don't have to justify myself."

Rue 2014

 

[DogOnPorch]

27 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It appears that women are only allowed to show their lovely eyes after they're dead.

This would make Earth....Hell?  (At least for the women, I would guess.)

Mohammad claimed Hell was mainly full of women...so pack that swimsuit.

[?Impact]

4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Mohammad claimed Hell was mainly full of women...so pack that swimsuit.

Where do you think the suicide bombers are going to find their 72 virgins?

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Where do you think the suicide bombers are going to find their 72 virgins?

 

Houri are pretty ill-defined. Generally they are accepted to be Jinn rather than anything human...though a few Hadiths suggest they are your past wives and former favorite sex slaves...that Mohammad...lol. I guess that passes for humor...

Mohammad still said Hell was mostly populated by women...

[?Impact]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Mohammad still said Hell was mostly populated by women...

"I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women."

Doesn`t look too good for the 1%

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

"I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women."

Doesn`t look too good for the 1%

 

Charity is a grace. Camels...eyes of needles...it's all the same f------ desert.

[Altai]

12 hours ago, ?Impact said:

What does she want is the real question. I have asked this a few times already, but have not received an answer: Is Sharia simply rules in how to live my life, or is it rules to be enforced by others on me?

I have replied you, you just dont want to understand. I think this is because of you are conditioned by your environment to think that "Islam is bad" since your childhood and you cant get rid of this idea even so you are given logical answers. 

So you have asked that "Are we forced to apply with Sharia?" and I gave you a verse which says "There is no compulsion in the system".and then you asked again "Even if we want to leave the system ?" and I replied that "saying there is no compulsion in the system is a fairly comprehensive definition." and you didnt ask more. Now after a while you claim that you was asked me questions and I didnt replied you.



 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Altai

[Altai]

11 hours ago, ?Impact said:

"I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women."

Doesn`t look too good for the 1%

Another story which is dedicated to prophet Muhammad. Probably he was never said such a thing.

- According to other stories, he was lying near his first wife's grave after 2 years of her death and he was crying.

- According to another story he said that the paradise is under the mother's feet.

- According to another story he said to men that the best one of you are the one who treats his wife most nicely .

- According to another story he said that only precious persons will care about women.

- According to another story he said that most faithful of you are the one who treats his family most nicely.

- According to another story he said that there is no bad luck and there is good luck only on three things, women, houses and horses.

- According to another story he said that the World is only a tool and the most valuable thing in this World is righteous women.

- According to another story he said that No Muslim man should hate a Muslim woman, you may not like one of their habits but they may have many other habits you would like.

- According to another story he said that be afraid of Allah when it comes to women, because women are entrusted to you by Allah. You have to meet all their needs.

- According to another story his wife Atiyye says that she and many other women were partipicated wars with him and women were cooking for soldiers and and they were treating wounded soldiers. They were given share from war booty.

- According to another story he said that girls should have meeting with their father about the marriage.

- According to another story he canceled marriages that girls dont want to marry but they are forced by their family.

- According to another story he said that treat your wifes in a good way.

- According to another story he said that treat youw wifes in a good way, because they are in need to be protected by you. 

- According to another story he said that whoever treats his daughter nicely, they will be protected of the fire of the hell.

- According to another story he said that whoever have daughters or sisters and treats them nicely, they will be rewarded with the Heaven. 






So why are you picking the rotten cherry while there are many other sturdy cherries ? Allah forbids Muslims to follow anything other than Quran (Verse 77:50) There are also stories that forbids to follow stories. 


 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Altai

[ironstone]

On 3/9/2017 at 10:31 AM, Altai said:

LoL  this is another claim. Okay then lets prove this one, show me the verse or verses that persons have to listen some "authorities" about Islam ? Will you leave the forum for ever if you cant do that ? Lets promise for it in front of everyone.

or I will prove just the opposite with verse or verses and if I cant do that, I will leave the forum forever. I promise.

Part of the problem with Islam is that no matter what the verses might say or not say,they are very clearly wide open to interpretation.

[Goddess]

21 minutes ago, ironstone said:

 

And "stories" don't change all the offensive parts about women in the Quran or Sharia law. 

Altai cannot or refuses to address the points that Dialamah brought up. 

 

23 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Part of the problem with Islam is that no matter what the verses might say or not say,they are very clearly wide open to interpretation.

 

[Altai]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

Part of the problem with Islam is that no matter what the verses might say or not say,they are very clearly wide open to interpretation.

For example, can you share a verse with different interpretations ? so we could examine it.


or what you did understand from my above sentence ? How many different ways you could interpret it ? 

Can (being able to do)
you (second person singular or plural)
share (noun or verb, impossible to be a noun according to English language rules)
a (quantity)
verse (part of a poem or article, holy book parts)
with (preposition)
different  (having features not the same as another)
interpretations (explanation of something based on its act or meanings)
? (punctuation to ask questions)


Now please interpret my sentence in different way/s ? 

[DogOnPorch]

5 hours ago, Altai said:

Another story which is dedicated to prophet Muhammad. Probably he was never said such a thing.

 

 

The line is from Sahih al-Bukari...the most trusted of the collection of Hadiths. Sahih means 'Authentic' in Arabic...

http://hadithcollection.com/sahihbukhari/87/4055-sahih-bukhari-volume-004-book-054-hadith-number-464.html

So if Big Mo is to be credited with saying anything, this is one of the more likely to be true.

[Rue]

4 hours ago, Altai said:

Another story which is dedicated to prophet Muhammad. Probably he was never said such a thing.

- According to other stories, he was lying near his first wife's grave after 2 years of her death and he was crying.

- According to another story he said that the paradise is under the mother's feet.

- According to another story he said to men that the best one of you are the one who treats his wife most nicely .

- According to another story he said that only precious persons will care about women.

- According to another story he said that most faithful of you are the one who treats his family most nicely.

- According to another story he said that there is no bad luck and there is good luck only on three things, women, houses and horses.

- According to another story he said that the World is only a tool and the most valuable thing in this World is righteous women.

- According to another story he said that No Muslim man should hate a Muslim woman, you may not like one of their habits but they may have many other habits you would like.

- According to another story he said that be afraid of Allah when it comes to women, because women are entrusted to you by Allah. You have to meet all their needs.

- According to another story his wife Atiyye says that she and many other women were partipicated wars with him and women were cooking for soldiers and and they were treating wounded soldiers. They were given share from war booty.

- According to another story he said that girls should have meeting with their father about the marriage.

- According to another story he canceled marriages that girls dont want to marry but they are forced by their family.

- According to another story he said that treat your wifes in a good way.

- According to another story he said that treat youw wifes in a good way, because they are in need to be protected by you. 

- According to another story he said that whoever treats his daughter nicely, they will be protected of the fire of the hell.

- According to another story he said that whoever have daughters or sisters and treats them nicely, they will be rewarded with the Heaven. 






So why are you picking the rotten cherry while there are many other sturdy cherries ? Allah forbids Muslims to follow anything other than Quran (Verse 77:50) There are also stories that forbids to follow stories. 


 

That's a  lot of stories and of course no cites. Interesting when Altai needs to she will quote the Koran and now when she does not want to address the very quotes she cites, she makes stories up to avoid the. This is why I referred to the entire premises of the thread being delusional. It first presents itself with the nonsensical illogical assertion that we are all ruled by Sharia law with not one iota of evidence to show that. Now we have the thread originator who has posed herself as an authority on Sharia law and Islam now avoiding the very Koran she wants to quote when asked questions about those quotes and avoids the questions and quotes entirely bypresenting uncited stories of what she alleged happened thousands of years ago. That is delusional.

Cherry picking Altai calls it. If you point out in the Koran the comments that are clearly discriminatory you are told by Altai its cherry picking. If she on the other hand only chooses to discuss certain passages of the Koran and not others, its not cherry picking. Does that sound logical?

Now has anyone found one sentence in what Altai said that is logical? Please show me one sentence.

 At this point she has presented a series fragmented subjective assertions as to what she think Muhmamed really meant. She fails to acknowledge the actual practice of sharia law in any nation. She remains in a subjective world where she tries to tell people what they can discuss and if the does not like their response call them liars and bans them. I'd say that latter exercise of being unable to debate in my opinion shows a self indulgent spoiled brat mentality where all are expected to live one standard but Altai another.

She evidence again and again she is unable to entertain and acknowledge any opinion other than her own  and calls people she disagrees with on this forum a liar which is insulting and will think nothing of complaining she is being insulted because people challenge what she says and presents. She shows an inability to debate and takes any challenge to her version of Islam to be an insult that must be banned.

That very exercise if banning people she disagrees with or her attempts on this thread to dictate to people what they can answer, reflects much of what people challenge in today's Islam and Sharia law practiced across the world. She mimics the clerics she repeats and how they will censure people for questioning the.

She provides ts a vivid example of the psyche of  certain disciples of Islam. They evidence that they  can't engage in critical reasoning or analysis and in fact panic and shut it out if it comes back in the form of a response. The very idea the rigid formula she presents could be subject to a different interpretation than her own causes her to panic and chop off the head symbolically  of her perceived challenger by banning them.

Now I presented an argument that said given the avatar presented by this person called Altai choosing to pose as a modern young Muslim woman dressed in a manner most Muslim countries do not permit because of Sharia law and would in fact lash a Muslim woman for, is contradictory. Certainly the avatar shows a young woman uncovered  taking a picture of herself. That  would be considered in the very Sharia laws she quotes as punishable by lashing for being vane. Altai did not respond to that.. I have no intent to insult "her" personna stating that,  I have stated however it is hard to reconcile and conceive that someone claiming and posing to be a young Turkish woman dressed as she is for all to see and purposely so by using her Avatar can reconcile that message with what else she now presents.

I have argued the presentation of Islam she presents is absolutely inconsistent with the physical image she portrays. I have the right to question tat and so whether the device of posing as an attractive young woman and then presenting a series of Muslim diatribes designed at preaching, is not an attempt at recruitment? If her physical image is not relevant than why is it on the avatar?  Thus I engage in both legitimate in satirical references to her alleged image not being consistent with the Islam she preaches. Thatw oudl be no different then me posing in my g string in an avatar and presenting passages from the Talmid and Old Testament about sexual behaviour. Sorry but something does not add up. So I ask is this an attempt at baiting young men to bite onto Islam. I have the right to ask that just as someone would have the right to ask that if I present a lovely young Jewess in an avatar or a beautiful young woman in an avatar presenting passages from ANY religion containing archaic sxist references to women. Something does not add up and I am asking whyt?

Now if I am asked as are all readers to believe she is a young Turkish woman who chooses to be modern in appearance and pose as she does for pictures she sends tot he public, she should be more than able to explain how she reconciles that appearance with her stated beliefs on this forum and the sexist hateful comments in Sharia law she now refuses to acknowledge. That's not calling her a liar. Its not insulting her. Its a legitimate question. Its one thing to preach but if in the next breath your very behaviour contradicts what you preach, you bet people have the right to question that especially on a debate forum.

Inventing stories with no citations to deflect from sexist passages in the Koran  does not make those passages suddenly have no meaning but  it does  manifest the person making up those stories does not know how to reconcile what she cited with the personna she presents in the avatar.

I again state, this entire thread is an act of self-indulgence bysomeone who not just presents a picture of the world she wants others to live in but demands we give full obedience to it or be banned..

If my daughter engaged in debate with me like that I would say, grow up, the world is not what you want it to be. You bet I would have to be harsh if I thought she was compromising  her safety with her beliefs. I think most mothers and fathers on this forum know exactly what I am saying. You learn tat as young woman grow they must create and live in their own world but you never abandon your role of protector from danger and if that means disagreeing with them because yout hink they are in danger youd on't compromise on that. I was not put on this planet to be  someone my daughters HAVE to love, like or agree with. I was put on the planet to assure they remain safe.

When someone spews passages that I believe and have argued show  no insight as to how it effects her own body and physical  safety its a sad thing to see indeed.

I look at it no differently than a parent whose child now engages in an abusive relationship.

There's nothing to indulge here in the words presented.

Your daughter comes to you singing the praises of her boyfriend who beats her you have choices. You can indulge her and try reason with her to leave. Good luck with that. Its a waste of time. I believe there's too many people indulging self destructive people. Thanks I find this latest exercise in indulging self denial and fantasy pointless. Its a broken record and at this point I believe myself its a pitch for Muslim extremism and the bait I think is evident.

 

 

[?Impact]

6 hours ago, Altai said:

I have replied you, you just dont want to understand. I think this is because of you are conditioned by your environment to think that "Islam is bad" since your childhood and you cant get rid of this idea even so you are given logical answers.

I asked a direct question, and you respond in parables. Maybe you are one of those Christians, never a direct answer from them either. I suggest if you differentiate between "Muslim" countries and "non-Muslim" ones then you support the idea that Sharia is enforced by others, even if you don't want to admit it.

During my childhood, Islam was never mentioned. You need to get a clue about history in Canada when dealing with us old folks.

Edited March 15, 2017 by ?Impact

[Altai]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

I asked a direct question, and you respond in parables. Maybe you are one of those Christians, never a direct answer from them either. I suggest if you differentiate between "Muslim" countries and "non-Muslim" ones then you support the idea that Sharia is enforced by others.

I dont want to ignore you but you are approaching your end step by step. So I gave you a Quran verse and you call it a "parable" ? So if you dont recognize a Quran verse as an Islamic rule, what do you recognize as an Islamic rule ? 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Altai