dialamah Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Goddess said: I don't understand why we can't discuss these issues like adults instead of children trying to justify bad actions with "But....but....but.....So-and-So did the same thing !!!" I don't understand why, when presented with facts and perspective that fails to present Muslims as barbaric savages, the usual suspects ignore that in favor of hyperbole, myths and outright lies. And then whine about people being unwilling to "discuss like adults". Here's a link discussing the different opinions on Aisha's age and why the age of six at marriage was extremely unlikely, and nine unlikely albeit possible. Or go ahead and believe that because someone said six or nine it must be true because everybody knows Muslims are evil and bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, dialamah said: Here's a link discussing the different opinions on Aisha's age and why the age of six at marriage was extremely unlikely, and nine unlikely albeit possible. Sorry, missed the link: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth Quote This claim (of Muhammed being a pedophile) is a recurring one among critics of Islam, so its foundation deserves close scrutiny. Quote in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage. Quote Other Muslims doubt the very idea that Aisha was six at the time of marriage, referring to historians who have questioned the reliability of Aisha's age as given in the saying. In a society without a birth registry and where people did not celebrate birthdays, most people estimated their own age and that of others. Aisha would have been no different. What's more, Aisha had already been engaged to someone else before she married Muhammad, suggesting she had already been mature enough by the standards of her society to consider marriage for a while. It seems difficult to reconcile this with her being six. Quote some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age Quote The fact that Iran and Saudi Arabia have both sought to use the saying concerning Aisha's age as a justification for lowering the legal age of marriage tells us a great deal about the patriarchal and oppressive nature of those regimes, and nothing about Muhammad, or the essential nature of Islam. The stridency of those who lend credence to these literalist interpretations by concurring with their warped view of Islam does not help those Muslims who seek to challenge these aberrations. Quote What the records are clear on is that Muhammad and Aisha had a loving and egalitarian relationship, which set the standard for reciprocity, tenderness and respect enjoined by the Qur'an. Insights into their relationship, such as the fact they liked to drink out of the same cup or race one another, are indicative of a deep connection which belies any misrepresentation of their relationship. Quote Those who manipulate her story to justify the abuse of young girls, and those who manipulate it in order to depict Islam as a religion that legitimises such abuse have more in common than they think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 15 hours ago, dialamah said: Christians in Middle East and Africa believe in and practice FGM, the killing of gay people, honor killings and child brides. Do you support Christianity? That's completely false, rubbish. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John ch3 vs 5. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John ch14 vs6 This verse tells me one must be born again by faith in Jesus Christ in order to have eternal life. There is no other way. One must believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God as the gospels teach, and that he is in fact God as the scriptures teach. The Bible teaches all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans) Islam does not teach man is a sinner and needs a savior, but the Bible makes it clear he is. The Bible teaches man is in a lost state until he is born again and know Jesus Christ as his personal savior. Do you know Christ as your personal savior? If you were to die at this moment, do you know where you would go? If not, don't waste any more time. Get a bible (KIng Jame Bible) 1611 if an English translation is needed and study and pray. Ask Jesus to save you. That is the most important issue in life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altai Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 16 hours ago, Goddess said: So these are actually adult women who are making the choice to marry these men? Why are you using distorted photos and why are you lying ? You really disgust me. You said you have kids too and I really pity your kids. These kids in the photos are companion kids, who accompanies brides and grooms in weddings. Not the brides. I gave you the related verse but you are still obsessively defending the same thing, this makes you a kaffir. You are sick. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altai Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 17 hours ago, seraphim said: You know this to be true if you are a Muslim, why lie about it? Arranged marriages with children is a normal happening in Islam. Here are a few examples: 1- 11 Year Old Child Bride Speaks About Evil Islam, Murdered After coming forward. (2015) 2- Untold story of Muslim child brides & horror they experience (2015) 3- Shaykh Explains Child Marriage (2010) You are welcome in Canada, it is not your fault you went through brain-washing within a religious cult. Embrace freedom, our lives are short, live the life you want to live for yourself. Canadians want you to have a good happy-free life without being forced to practice this religion, Canadians do not want this religion and beliefs forced upon them either. But, RELIGION is a choice, and you are free to chose and celebrate ANY religion you want to as long as you are following Canadian laws. Regarding marriages of people under the age of 18: If the person engaging in relations (sexual) with a person under the age of 18, the person over the age of 18 can be charged for statutory rape, either by the state or by the parents. Behavior of individuals are not the responsiblity of Islam. I gave you the verse which openly explains the marriage age of youth people. You claim that Aisha was married at 6 based on a story, so you believe in these stories. There are also other stories that makes Aisha impossible to be married at 6, according to these stories she was at least 17 years old. Why are you picking the cherries ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 hours ago, blackbird said: If you were to die at this moment, do you know where you would go? If not, don't waste any more time. Get a bible (KIng Jame Bible) 1611 if an English translation is needed and study and pray. Ask Jesus to save you. That is the most important issue in life. That is all we need, one demented cult traded for another. The loving Jesus who will send you into the eternal fires of hell unless you supplicate yourself to him. At least if I submit to Allah I get 72 virgins are a reward in eternity instead of some gay place with angles and harps up in the clouds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, ?Impact said: That is all we need, one demented cult traded for another. The loving Jesus who will send you into the eternal fires of hell unless you supplicate yourself to him. At least if I submit to Allah I get 72 virgins are a reward in eternity instead of some gay place with angles and harps up in the clouds. Only if you die performing Jihad against the Infidel. Otherwise you wait in line like the rest of the slobs. But, killing for Allah gets you on the fast track to the Big Table in Paradise...sitting next to Big Mo, Omar, Abu Bakr and the rest of the happy good-time bunch. So sharpen that knife. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Altai said: Why are you using distorted photos and why are you lying ? You really disgust me. You said you have kids too and I really pity your kids. These kids in the photos are companion kids, who accompanies brides and grooms in weddings. Not the brides. I gave you the related verse but you are still obsessively defending the same thing, this makes you a kaffir. You are sick. Snopes has the same info as the rest of us. Only Hamas's good word and those testimonies of sympathetic reporters is used to 'debunk' this story. Only media sympathetic to Hamas are allowed to operate in Gaza. Funny that each groom has a niece of the same young age...I wonder what the odds were? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Only if you die performing Jihad against the Infidel. Otherwise you wait in line like the rest of the slobs. But, killing for Allah gets you on the fast track to the Big Table in Paradise...sitting next to Big Mo, Omar, Abu Bakr and the rest of the happy good-time bunch. So sharpen that knife. Yes, there are some that take that narrow view. Suicide occurs daily across he entire spectrum (age, sex, health, religious/non-religious, etc.) and there are some that exploit that with a lottery ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, ?Impact said: Yes, there are some that take that narrow view. Suicide occurs daily across he entire spectrum (age, sex, health, religious/non-religious, etc.) and there are some that exploit that with a lottery ticket. In order to get the 72 Houri...you need to die fighting in the name of Allah. Not something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altai Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: Snopes has the same info as the rest of us. Only Hamas's good word and those testimonies of sympathetic reporters is used to 'debunk' this story. Only media sympathetic to Hamas are allowed to operate in Gaza. Funny that each groom has a niece of the same young age...I wonder what the odds were? These kids dont have to be niece of grooms or brides, they can be any kids around. Why we only have a photo of this claim ? So where is the wedding video ? If you do such a thing in a Muslim country, probably you would be lynched by the crowd. Edited March 10, 2017 by Altai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Altai said: These kids dont have to be niece of grooms or brides, they can be any kids around. Why we only have a photo of these claim ? So where is the wedding video ? If you do such a thing in a Muslim country, probably you would be lynched by the crowd. You're free to trust Hamas at their word. Lots of folks do... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altai Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to trust Hamas at their word. Lots of folks do... LoL, so you cant prove your claim, again bye . Edited March 10, 2017 by Altai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: In order to get the 72 Houri...you need to die fighting in the name of Allah. A jihad is simply a struggle to attain something. The common Arabic understanding of jihad is the personal struggle to achieve a life without sin. The common non-Arabic understanding of jihad is war or terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Altai said: LoL, so you cant prove your claim, again bye kaffir. There is no way to 'prove it' either way. Hamas was caught emulating the Prophet Mohammad. That's all. There's nothing un-Islamic about marrying a child as that's exactly what Mohammad did. Aisha was 6 when the Prophet took her as his wife. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ?Impact said: A jihad is simply a struggle to attain something. The common Arabic understanding of jihad is the personal struggle to achieve a life without sin. The common non-Arabic understanding of jihad is war or terrorism. Jihad is fighting in the name of Allah. Not the PC version served-up by the Infidel. Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not. They ask you about the sacred month - about fighting therein. Say, "Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah . And fitnah is greater than killing." And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever - for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally. Indeed, those who have believed and those who have emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah - those expect the mercy of Allah . And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. https://quran.com/2/216-218 Edited March 10, 2017 by DogOnPorch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Altai said: Behavior of individuals are not the responsiblity of Islam. I think this is where some of us differ - I believe it IS the responsibility of Islam as to how it's adherents behave, since they behave according to what they are taught. I don't believe there would be as many child brides, if it were not for the teachings of Islam. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 hours ago, ?Impact said: That is all we need, one demented cult traded for another. The loving Jesus who will send you into the eternal fires of hell unless you supplicate yourself to him. At least if I submit to Allah I get 72 virgins are a reward in eternity instead of some gay place with angles and harps up in the clouds. I've asked my sister where all these virgins are coming from; she suspects that they are drawn from celibate Christians - though we aren't sure if that's their reward or their hell. In this modern age, there is concern that there will not be enough virgins; how will Allah solve that problem? Also, we've discussed the issue that men get all these perks, but what do women get? Islam does have some problems, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Goddess said: I think this is where some of us differ - I believe it IS the responsibility of Islam as to how it's adherents behave, since they behave according to what they are taught. 1 Is the behavior of the Jehovah's Witnesses the responsibility of the wider Christian community? Is the behavior of pedophilic priests the responsibility of Christians outside the Catholic church? If Mennonite men are in the habit of raping their wives and daughters, is that something Blackbird, as a Christian, should be held responsible for? Quote I don't believe there would be as many child brides, if it were not for the teachings of Islam. A child bride is defined as someone under the age of 18. Canada's laws allow for child brides. Please show me how this is because of Islam. In many States, the laws allow for marriage of children as young as 12. Please show me how this is because of Islam. Previously, there was a post showing where there are high incidences of 'child brides': These were not Islamic countries. Please explain how this is because of Islam. Edited March 10, 2017 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, blackbird said: On 3/9/2017 at 8:53 AM, dialamah said: Christians in Middle East and Africa believe in and practice FGM, the killing of gay people, honor killings and child brides. Do you support Christianity? 1 That's completely false, rubbish. Christians and FGM: Quote Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. http://www.stopfgmmideast.org/background/islam-or-culture/ Quote Contrary to the belief that it is a practice carried out by Muslims only, it is also practiced by Christians and a minority group of Ethiopian Jews. However, FGM is neither mentioned in the Torah, nor in the Gospels, and – like in Islam – bodily mutilation is condemned by both religions. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110570413000258 Christians and child marriage: Quote "In Ethiopia, for instance, child marriage is embedded in the customs of Orthodox Christian communities like those in the Amhara region, even though the country’s Orthodox church opposes the practice." http://www.cfr.org/peace-conflict-and-human-rights/child-marriage/p32096#!/?cid=otr_marketing_use-child_marriage_Infoguide#!%2F From 2016: Quote A conference to arrange child marriages for Christian homeschoolers will be held in Kansas this fall. According to the website’s Frequently Asked Questions marriage is appropriate between the ages of 13-20, http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/05/conference-will-arrange-child-marriages-for-christian-homeschoolers/ 1 Christians and honor killings: Quote A teenage Christian girl in Pakistan was reportedly killed by her own brother this week in a so-called “honor killing” over her plans to marry. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pakistan-murder-shows-christians-not-immune-from-honor-killing-custom-69271/ Quote She is Christian. But the story she told Bikyamasr.com earlier this year at a Cairo flat is one that is becoming more and more common across Egypt’s rural areas. Honor killings affect all women, she says, her passable English a sign of her education. [ ] “My mom told me that my cousin, who I had grown up with and had played with all the time had been killed,” she continues. According to Sarah, her mother did not reveal how she died, but after a few days, it became apparent that what had happened was that her cousin’s own brother had stabbed his sister to death in an “honor killing.” [ ] Her cousin, 22, had been murdered by her own brother after rumors surfaced in the area that she was having illicit relations with her boyfriend, a Muslim. http://hbv-awareness.com/egypts-rise-in-honor-killings-sparks-regional-debate/ Christians and gay-killing: Uganda, a Christian majority country, tried to pass bill that would execute gays, but scaled it back to jail time after international outcry. Nonetheless many Christian Ugandans still think it's up to them to kill gays. The Ugandan's anti-gay government has been strongly supported by Christian conservative politicians from the States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014 http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/_i_kill_them_hbo_s_vice_goes_to_uganda_to_see_what_american_anti_gay_christians_have_created Edited March 10, 2017 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, dialamah said: I've asked my sister where all these virgins are coming from; she suspects that they are drawn from celibate Christians - though we aren't sure if that's their reward or their hell. In this modern age, there is concern that there will not be enough virgins; how will Allah solve that problem? Also, we've discussed the issue that men get all these perks, but what do women get? Islam does have some problems, that's for sure. Your sister isn't the authority on Islam. Only the Quran/Hadiths count...not 'expert' opinions. https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/22/46 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Your sister isn't the authority on Islam. Only the Quran/Hadiths count...not 'expert' opinions. https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/22/46 You are also not an authority on Islam, yet here you are ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, dialamah said: You are also not an authority on Islam, yet here you are ... Which is why I let the Quran do the talking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Which is why I let the Quran do the talking. Funny how you only let the Quran "talk" when it suits your particular interpretation and agenda. I guess that's what "interpretation" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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