Why all the worldwide turmoil? (9/11 thread)

[hot enough]

5 minutes ago, Wilber said:

You're the one with the answers. Can't believe I got sucked in another one of these discussions. The trouble with you truthers is you grab onto one thing like a dog with a bone and ignore everything else.

Okay, first I will discuss anything and everything you want to discuss. 

[Wilber]

Not this.

[hot enough]

I just got called a "truther", again!

Nineteen eighty four is alive and well. 

The folks who tell the truth are called "truthers", which as every English speaker intuitively knows means one who believes in truth, speaks truth, supports the truth, just as a welder welds, a teacher teaches, a reporter reports, a carpenter carpents.

Truthers are people who are willing to discuss the issues, discuss the science, do the scientific experiments, do the difficult slogging work that is science, are willing to explain the science and their implications as many times as is needed to help people understand.

But by some Orwellian process, the word, 'truther', a word that matches perfectly with the logic of the English language, as described above, has been turned 180 degrees and is used by, see below, as a slur. 

On pages 1 and 2 of this thread, there were zero, as in 0, uses of the slur 'truther'. When the science started to dawn on the [spoiler alert] "anti-truthers", out came the slurs. Page 3 saw one, page 4 saw 2, page 5 saw 1, page 6, there were 3, page 7, not yet finished, has seen 1. These, of course do not include my present discussion of this issue regarding truthers and [2nd spoiler alert] anti-truthers.

By contrast, we have our anti-truthers. "anti-truthers" comports perfectly with the logic of the English language, and it does a bang up job of describing the large number of these folks who inhabit our western societies.  

Anti-truthers are the folks who never discuss the science, make repeated attempts to curb both scientific discovery and scientific discussion, using slanderous comments and off topic comments. These make up the sum total of their "science".

And yet they will steadfastly, ardently, likely even to their deaths, maintain that their "science", which they can't even explain, is so superior that it doesn't require explanation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I reiterate.

[?Impact]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

LoooL, I also wrote it with a bit broken Turkish to prevent you to use Google translate  

Yes, Google translate thought it was Azerbaijan. Are you from eastern Turkey, or have relatives from Azerbaijan? 

[hot enough]

Altai, here is the article I told you about.

The Missing Jolt

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/TheMissingJolt7.pdf

[hot enough]

Here are many excellent reasons that tell us WTCs 1 & 2 were brought down by controlled demolition.

=========================

http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/docs/Eastman_QuantEvidence.pdf

Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of destruction by explosives:

1. Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly free-fall acceleration

2. Improbable symmetry of debris distribution

3. Extremely rapid onset of destruction

4. Over 100 first responders reported explosions and flashes

5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally

6. Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking

7. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds

8. 1200-foot-dia. debris field: no "pancaked" floors found

9. Isolated explosive ejections 20 – 40 stories below demolition front

10. Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame

11. Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises

12. Evidence of thermite incendiaries found by FEMA in steel samples

13. Evidence of explosives found in dust samples

14. No precedent for steel-framed high-rise collapse due to fire

[Altai]

10 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Yes, Google translate thought it was Azerbaijan. Are you from eastern Turkey, or have relatives from Azerbaijan? 

  its misleading you. I am talking Anatolian Turkish. Nedn anla maya calisyor sunn 


Ops, I forget to reply this part, so Azeris are also a kind of Turkish ethnic arm and we speak similar but different. Their language sounds like Russian. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Altai

[kactus]

8 hours ago, Altai said:

  its misleading you. I am talking Anatolian Turkish. Nedn anla maya calisyor sunn 


Ops, I forget to reply this part, so Azeris are also a kind of Turkish ethnic arm and we speak similar but different. Their language sounds like Russian. 

If you are talking about the Azerbaijan Republic then of course it has Russian influence but the big part of Azerbaijan lies in Iran and doesn't sound anything like russian.

[?Impact]

I just burned/melted/vaporized some steel, and all it took was one wooden kitchen match. Blowing gently on this steel greatly intensified the rate of burn. Of course there are those who would try and convince you that couldn't even be done with tons and tons of burning jet fuel, yet I accomplished exactly that with a single wooden match. A wooden match burns at somewhere between 600°C and 800°C. How can I accomplish what others claim impossible? Perhaps they are not looking at all the variables.

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎25 at 11:59 PM, bcsapper said:

This is nonsense too.  Everyone knows students don't get flunked at universities anymore. They'd sue, and the Prof would be fired. 

I forgot to say thank you to BC for this.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, ?Impact said:

I just burned/melted/vaporized some steel, and all it took was one wooden kitchen match. Blowing gently on this steel greatly intensified the rate of burn. Of course there are those who would try and convince you that couldn't even be done with tons and tons of burning jet fuel, yet I accomplished exactly that with a single wooden match. A wooden match burns at somewhere between 600°C and 800°C. How can I accomplish what others claim impossible? Perhaps they are not looking at all the variables.

You sure it wasn't aluminum? 600 - 800 will not do that on steel, I think. At best it will glow red.

[?Impact]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

You sure it wasn't aluminum? 600 - 800 will not do that on steel, I think. At best it will glow red.

Steel. Slightly harder than construction grade steel, as it had about 2% carbon. Note that construction steel has more manganese which is even more flammable so the carbon content is irrelevant. You too can do this at home, chances are you already have everything you need.

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

You sure it wasn't aluminum? 600 - 800 will not do that on steel, I think. At best it will glow red.

 

1 minute ago, ?Impact said:

Steel. Slightly harder than construction grade steel, as it had about 2% carbon. Note that construction steel has more manganese which is even more flammable so the carbon content is irrelevant. You too can do this at home, chances are you already have everything you need.

 

Best start building everything out of rhenium alloys.

That'll show 'em.

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Steel. Slightly harder than construction grade steel, as it had about 2% carbon. Note that construction steel has more manganese which is even more flammable so the carbon content is irrelevant. You too can do this at home, chances are you already have everything you need.

was it in powder form?

[?Impact]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

was it in powder form?

You are on the right track, but even simpler than that.

[Rue]

In regards to the discussions raised by the thread creator may I suggest for a direct response to his comments you go to:

http://www.debunking911.com/index.html   and in particular:

1-Molten steel, Thermite

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

2-Free fall

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

3-Explosions

http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm

4- Conspiracy Theory

http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/conspiracy.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/meeting.htm

 

[OftenWrong]

36 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

 

Best start building everything out of rhenium alloys.

That'll show 'em.

Tungsten's pretty good stuff as well!

[OftenWrong]

35 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

You are on the right track, but even simpler than that.

Ok I know what it is.

[hot enough]

35 minutes ago, Rue said:

In regards to the discussions raised by the thread creator may I suggest for a direct response to his comments you go to:

http:/

 

Your sources, Rue, you do the work and present your ideas. 

[hot enough]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Ok I know what it is.

It took you that long?

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Tungsten's pretty good stuff as well!

Tanker's choice during WW2. Made the (relatively small) 2-pounder a killer in the desert.

Rhenium has one of the highest melting points and is useful in things like rocket nozzles, etc. A tad expensive...heh. Very rare.

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, hot enough said:

It took you that long?

No man, I was busy reading other stuff! I figured it had something to do with the form of the material.

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Rhenium has one of the highest melting points and is useful in things like rocket nozzles, etc. A tad expensive...heh. Very rare.

I've never worked with it, but I do regularly work with Wolfram...

[hot enough]

All this expertise and no one can discuss it. 

[Rue]

Now in regards to conspiracies, any conspiracies including the one resurrected yet again on 9-11 I refer to this quote from,

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/suspicious-minds/201510/the-psychology-conspiracy-theories

 which states:

 

“..conspiracy theories tap into some of our deepest desires, fears, and assumptions about the world, and resonate with our brain’s built-in quirks and foibles. In proposing that events are carefully controlled from behind the scenes, for example, conspiracy theories fit neatly with the intentionality bias (link is external)—our tendency to assume that ambiguous events happened on purpose. By explaining significant events as the result of grand conspiracies, they tap into our assumption that big events have big causes (link is external). And by ceaselessly connecting otherwise unrelated dots, they satisfy our never-ending quest (link is external) to explain what’s happening in the world around us.”

I add my two cents and state conspiracies replace religion as the new religion of today. They create meaning and intelligent behaviour from what otherwise appears to be chaos. In the past this is what religion did. It provided explanations to fill in the gaps and offer understandable explanations for that which would otherwise be unexplainable. We used these explanations to calm us down and make us less fearful of the unknown.

It was not that long ago we humans who remain primates, homo sapiens were petrified of the dark, reptiles (dinosaurs) spiders, snakes, any animal that was perceived as a predator or lethal. Some of us still carry these primal fears. Fear of snakes, spiders, darkness, height, those who look diferent in physical characteristic (different fur colour or spots or stripes) all can be related back to our basic ape or primal behaviour. Some of us are still more primal than others particularly in regards to following alpha males, going into heat (mating, marrying) and engaging in war, rape, violence.

Now that religion is not as strong as it once was being eroded steadily by science giving explanations for those things which once seemed like acts of God, some people still need to fill in the gaps. Their knowledge of science is not enhanced. They may have never studied science or have limited education. They are bombarded each day by their cell phones and internets with a non stop stream of information their brains struggles to make sense of.

Its not a coincidence the head-line of this thread by the 9-11 conspiracy provider depicts a world out of control, a threatening world. Conspiracy theorists tend to see the world as chaotic and to make it seem less chaotic they give it rational form through conspiracies that take what is otherwise jagged, disjointed and hard to understand tasks and presto turn them into cause and effect explanations.

Interestingly there are now no shortage of theories on the psychology of conspiracies, conspiracy theorists and the role they play in replacing religion as a non fact, faith based script to sooth we primates. Specifically there were studiesconducted  at the University of Westminster in London England, that examined traits associated with those who believe in 9-11 conspiracy theories in the U.K. Now keep in mind this was only done by studying British citizens but id did find these characteristics which I would go so far s to state pretty much apply to all conspiracy theorists: cynical and distrustful of authority, politics; 2-mistrusting of authority; 3-endorsing of democratic practices; feeling generally suspicious towards others, and 4-displaying an imaginative and inquisitive outlook.

I agree with other psychologists who found these traits in most conspiracy theorists: 1-a need to explain things; 2-anxiety raised when things are not in order, do not make sense, can not be quickly controlled or understood; 3-rigid in belief, i.e., find it difficult to see more then one possible explanation at a time for any one event; 4-prone to using labels and stereotypes; 5-fearful of crowds, large events and gatherings, crowds, noise, things appearing large and dangerous;6-perfectionists; 7-find it difficult to let go of insults, imagined slights, jokes at their expense; 8-more likely to be clean than dirty and be aware of germs, diseases; 9-feeling unappreciated invisible, under-utilized; 10-more likely to be middle children that first or last borns.

Now interestingly the above could describe anyone on this forum especially the moderators so I would not draw any conclusions but I do think myself conspiracies are an attempt to make that which causes stress because it appears uncontrollable, controllable so the stress can be defused. I would argue conspiracies are an anti-anxiety agent serving the same purpose as Lorazepam or Valium or Ativan.

Think about it when you take the conspiracy prescription, if you digest it then:

1-now you know what others can not

2-now you understand what others can not

3-now you can see, hear, smell, taste, touch, feel what others can not

4-you now can figure out patterns  from what once seemed like thousands of pieces in a jigsaw puzzle;

and most importantly

5-you can identify and ally with the others in the know and those not in the know .

It appeals to those who like joining clubs and feeling their club gives them special things people outside the club don't get.

Now instead of flying economy you go first class.

For someone who feels underappreciated, misunderstood, unimportant, plain, a loser, it gives them a reason to feel good about themselves.

Many people join cult groups which recruit and control by assuring each member subscribes to the particular conspiracy theories of that group and gives unquestioned loyalty to that group and its beliefs.

So for me I say debunk the myths if possible using logic and rational thought but be gentle. If that is possible. I sure as hell can get grumpy about it with some.

 Otherwise look at it like this many people ridicule the concept of alien species outside our planet. Without proof they refer to all references to it as craziness. I keep an open mind.

When I was young I had a lot of very interesting times investigating old homes for paranormal activities with rational scientist types using a Geiger counter, gauges to test for methane and other gases, geologists measuring radiation emission and so on. Not everything we saw can be explained. If I told you some people can see and talk to spirits many of you would call that crazy without scientific proof. 

I won't try convince you some people use parts of their brain that allow them to perceive things or do things others can't and so what appears to be reality for one may not be for another. For years many schizophrenics said they needed to wear tin foil to keep out harmful rays being beamed into their brains and would chain smoke cigarettes. Everyone just assumed this was part of their being crazy, Now studies show may schizophrenics very vulnerable to migraines brought on my microwaves, raditation emissions from rocks pushing together, high voltage wires. Interestingly tin foil deflects microwaves. As for nicotine, we now know it weakens or quietens down the hallucination intensity or loudness of voices in the head and its being considered now as a possible agent to add to certain medications.

All I am saying is keep an open mind. God knows I try until I come on this forum. I am  not sure how many times I have to explain to you the Dracos are already hear and working with the Greys and other species to take over the planet.