Moderate something

[Altai]

You are a person working in a company. This company has a list of rules. All the workers have to obey these rules if they want to be a part of this company.

What happens when you dont obey the rules ? You will be fired ? or you will still be allowed to work for this company but they will call you "extremist worker".  

How they will call you if you obey the rules ? Only a "worker" or a "moderate worker" ? 



You can think Islam or any other religions as a company. The big boss is Allah andd general manager were the prophets anddd general managers have to apply orders they receive from the big boss. 




 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Altai

[Ash74]

But I do not work for this company. Why should I pretend that I have an obligation to this company? 

 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Altai said:

You are a person working in a company. This company has a list of rules. All the workers have to obey these rules if they want to be a part of this company.

What happens when you dont obey the rules ? You will be fired ? or you will still be allowed to work for this company but they will call you "extremist worker".  

How they will call you if you obey the rules ? Only a "worker" or a "moderate worker" ? 



You can think Islam or any other religions as a company. The big boss is Allah andd general manager were the prophets anddd general managers have to apply orders they receive from the big boss. 

 

 

Depends on the worker. 

If you want to advance in your career, and step up the ladder - you'd make sure to apply what the big boss says.  

Especially when there's this big incentive being given for following orders:  7 virgins, or a yacht, or a free trip to the Bahamas.....

 

The difference?  Working for a company is worldly, whereas when it comes to Islam - it's about eternity.

Edited February 24, 2017 by betsy

[drummindiver]

....and you're not killed if you decide to quit and work for another company.

[?Impact]

3 hours ago, Altai said:

You can think Islam or any other religions as a company. The big boss is Allah andd general manager were the prophets anddd general managers have to apply orders they receive from the big boss.

Don't forget that spin offs (schism) occur regularly, but instead of with the big bosses consent they can go against it. Also note that the big boss has remained silent for many hundreds of years. In some companies there is a board of directors (College of Cardinals) that elect a single general manager (Pope), while other companies have a multitude of self-proclaimed general managers trying to pull the strings in all sorts of different directions.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Altai said:

You are a person working in a company. This company has a list of rules. All the workers have to obey these rules if they want to be a part of this company.
 

Surely one can think of a secular society as a company too?

Edited February 24, 2017 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it on company time - Not Blaise Pascal

[Goh Shenas]

I am an infidel. I don't believe in your company ethics. Would I get a sack if I say it like it is to your prophet or would I be beheaded and go to heaven for a promised 72 virgins?

[Altai]

8 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Don't forget that spin offs (schism) occur regularly, but instead of with the big bosses consent they can go against it. Also note that the big boss has remained silent for many hundreds of years. In some companies there is a board of directors (College of Cardinals) that elect a single general manager (Pope), while other companies have a multitude of self-proclaimed general managers trying to pull the strings in all sorts of different directions.

We are given a book (quran) where the rules are written by big boss. So general menagers nor any other self-proclaimed idiots cannot change the rules according to their interests. They were tried to change and still trying to change rules and some people are following them but their numbers cannot even be comparable with the rest. Stop focusing on on the bugs and focus on the lion herds lie in the shade. 

[OftenWrong]

52 minutes ago, Altai said:

Stop focusing on on the bugs and focus on the lion herds lie in the shade. 

In our dialogue, I would identify "extreme" or "moderate" along broad, simple lines.

- Those who mind their own business (moderate)
- Those who don't... (extreme)

We in Canada use these terms to differentiate the kind of people who are welcome to come to our country, vs the kind we don't want!

[Altai]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

In our dialogue, I would identify "extreme" or "moderate" along broad, simple lines.

- Those who mind their own business (moderate)
- Those who don't... (extreme)

We in Canada use these terms to differentiate the kind of people who are welcome to come to our country, vs the kind we don't want!

Ofcourse this is not true. Noone would give a job to an unruly person. Its the same for religions too. 

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, Altai said:

Ofcourse this is not true. Noone would give a job to an unruly person. Its the same for religions too. 

You mean they are not muslims. I do get your point.

[Altai]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

You mean they are not muslims. I do get your point.

Ofcourse they are not. Its the same for other religions too. Huge part of so called religious people is not following their religious rules, so they are not actually a member of the religion they claim.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Altai

[OftenWrong]

Quote

 @Altai Ofcourse they are not. Its the same for other religions too. Huge part of so called religious people is not following their religious rules, so they are not actually a member of the religion they claim.

Here's what I think - they portray themselves as being from an older, harsher interpretation of Islam. They strictly follow the holy text word for word, and administer terrible punishment to those who fail to live up to their standard. They are against modernization and seek to block western influences. I think Turkey is probably among the most modernized middle eastern countries. Other countries are "primitive", which the big fellas with the hats like to keep it that way. I mean, yer Ayalollahs and what not.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by OftenWrong

[Altai]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Here's what I think - they portray themselves as being from an older, harsher interpretation of Islam. They strictly follow the holy text word for word, and administer terrible punishment to those who fail to live up to their standard. They are against modernization and seek to block western influences. I think Turkey is probably among the most modernized middle eastern countries. Other countries are "primitive", which the big fellas with the hats like to keep it that way. I mean, yer Ayalollahs and what not.

 

Please just shut up !!!  you have zero idea and knowledge about Islam. This is not Christianity that you change the verses day by day. Never changed and will never change.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Altai

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Altai said:

Please just shut up !!!  you have zero idea and knowledge about Islam. This is not Christianity that you change the verses day by day. Never changed and will never change.

That is the basic problem right there...

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

Please just shut up !!!  you have zero idea and knowledge about Islam. This is not Christianity that you change the verses day by day. Never changed and will never change.

Its not me who should shut up, but the foul mouthed imams. They have no place in civil society.

[Altai]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Its not me who should shut up, but the foul mouthed imams. They have no place in civil society.

You are overrating imams. Imams are ordinary persons who just coordinates daily praying sessions to prevent any dissonance.


 

[kactus]

15 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I think Turkey is probably among the most modernized middle eastern countries. Other countries are "primitive", which the big fellas with the hats like to keep it that way. I mean, yer Ayalollahs and what not.

 

So you judge countries based on attire they wear?

How about Sikhs with their turbans or orthodox jews with their attires?

This is the hard core of the issue...You don't have tolerance for muslims and their extremists don't have any tolerance for your extremist views. Problem sovled...Neither of you are any better.

Edited February 25, 2017 by kactus

[OftenWrong]

There are many forms of Christianity. It's based on how certain groups interpret a particular part of the scripture. These arguments go back for centuries, and give rise to different sects. You got your Catholics, Protestants. You've got Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians etc.

It should be noted, there are "extremist" Christians, groups who have departed from orthodoxy and have their own interpretation of Christianity. Often it too is more harsh, by that I mean punishing when someone leaves the company, than what we might call "modern" Christianity. It can include a rejection of modern technology like use of electricity, computers, modern cultural music. However they are not interested in cutting people's heads off, not yet anyway.

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by OftenWrong

[OftenWrong]

On 2017-02-24 at 5:55 AM, Altai said:

You are a person working in a company. This company has a list of rules. All the workers have to obey these rules if they want to be a part of this company.

What happens when you dont obey the rules ? You will be fired ? or you will still be allowed to work for this company but they will call you "extremist worker".  

How they will call you if you obey the rules ? Only a "worker" or a "moderate worker" ? 



You can think Islam or any other religions as a company. The big boss is Allah andd general manager were the prophets anddd general managers have to apply orders they receive from the big boss. 

In my new, enlightened company, employees are given their tasks and work to do, under a set of rules. Those who break the rules are noticed by the boss and manager. But they are not dismissed. We try to keep the employee engaged in the work in a constructive way. The manager understands how different some people can be,but they are not to be condemned. If they can make a few corrections, the employee can find a way to fit in. The employee can be saved. The boss won't mind this.

[?Impact]

6 hours ago, Altai said:

You are overrating imams. Imams are ordinary persons who just coordinates daily praying sessions to prevent any dissonance.

I wonder if imams follow different practices in countries like Canada compared to Turkey or Saudi Arabia. As I understand it, In Turkey there is a fairly centralized structure for things like the Friday sermons (Khutbah), where they are written by the Diyanet and then delivered in the local mosques by the imams. In Saudi Arabia there is a ministry of Islamic affairs that is somewhat similar. I don't believe in Canada there is such a central authority, and the local imams would prepare and deliver their own sermons. There is the Canadian Council of Imams that does act as a central resource group to provide some coordination, but it is far from an authority.

[OftenWrong]

16 minutes ago, kactus said:

So you judge countries based on attire they wear?

How about Sikhs with their turbans or orthodox jews with their attires?

This is the hard core of the issue...You don't have tolerance for muslims and their extremists don't have any tolerance for your extremist views. Problem sovled...Neither of you are any better.

Nonsense. Just saying people who wear big hats, usually do so for a reason.

[OftenWrong]

7 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

I wonder if imams follow different practices in countries like Canada compared to Turkey or Saudi Arabia. As I understand it, In Turkey there is a fairly centralized structure for things like the Friday sermons (Khutbah), where they are written by the Diyanet and then delivered in the local mosques by the imams. In Saudi Arabia there is a ministry of Islamic affairs that is somewhat similar. I don't believe in Canada there is such a central authority, and the local imams would prepare and deliver their own sermons. There is the Canadian Council of Imams that does act as a central resource group to provide some coordination, but it is far from an authority.

Sounds like Canada is the "Wild Wild West" of Islam?

[?Impact]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Sounds like Canada is the "Wild Wild West" of Islam?

Your local pastor also writes his own sermons, so I guess we are the wild west of Christianity as well.

[OftenWrong]

Just now, ?Impact said:

Your local pastor also writes his own sermons, so I guess we are the wild west of Christianity as well.

It's a nice point. I would like to think that if my local pastor said some nasty things, people would raise complaints to have it stopped. Not keep attending.