Moderate something

[Altai]

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

I wonder if imams follow different practices in countries like Canada compared to Turkey or Saudi Arabia. As I understand it, In Turkey there is a fairly centralized structure for things like the Friday sermons (Khutbah), where they are written by the Diyanet and then delivered in the local mosques by the imams. In Saudi Arabia there is a ministry of Islamic affairs that is somewhat similar. I don't believe in Canada there is such a central authority, and the local imams would prepare and deliver their own sermons. There is the Canadian Council of Imams that does act as a central resource group to provide some coordination, but it is far from an authority.

Actually these sermons were firstly done to listen people's complaints about anything and were to discuss about social-personal things attended by everyone in the mosque. Then in time its evolved into a sermon only imam talks about what he wants or what the Diyanet wants him to talk. They usually talk about social events, about public peace or about personal improvement. They are not half-God and they can talk nonsenses too. 

[betsy]

Depends on the worker. 

If you want to advance in your career, and step up the ladder - you'd make sure to apply what the big boss says.  

Especially when there's this big incentive being given for following orders:  72 virgins, or a yacht, or a free trip to the Bahamas.....

 

The difference?  Working for a company is worldly, whereas when it comes to Islam - it's about eternity.

Edited February 25, 2017 by betsy

[Altai]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

In my new, enlightened company, employees are given their tasks and work to do, under a set of rules. Those who break the rules are noticed by the boss and manager. But they are not dismissed. We try to keep the employee engaged in the work in a constructive way. The manager understands how different some people can be,but they are not to be condemned. If they can make a few corrections, the employee can find a way to fit in. The employee can be saved. The boss won't mind this.

So ?

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Altai said:

So ?

So it sounds like a nice place.  So much better than a rabid, foaming theocracy. 

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by bcsapper

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

So ?

We all have rules and we all break them.

[Altai]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

We all have rules and we all break them.

So what kind of a relation there is between your company example and religion ?

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Altai said:

So what kind of a relation there is between your company example and religion ?

I don't really know...

[Altai]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't really know...

These are meaningless stupid words invented by Western people like as stupid words invented by Muslims too. 

There is no sects or groups in Islam, there is no radical, moderate, extremist, sunni, shia etc. There is only Islam. If you follow the rules, then you are a part of this company, if you dont follow the rules, you are not a part of it. Rules written in Quran. 

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Altai said:

These are meaningless stupid words invented by Western people like as stupid words invented by Muslims too. 

There is no sects or groups in Islam, there is no radical, moderate, extremist, sunni, shia etc. There is only Islam. If you follow the rules, then you are a part of this company, if you dont follow the rules, you are not a part of it. Rules written in Quran. 

Being perfect is an concept that cannot exist for any length of time. I might be, for one thousandth of a second. Whoops, there it goes. Now I am often wrong.

 

[Altai]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Being perfect is an concept that cannot exist for any length of time. I might be, for one thousandth of a second. Whoops, there it goes. Now I am often wrong.

 

Someones dont need to be perfect to follow the company's simple rules. They just need to be "normal". Their unruly behaviors is not the responsiblity of the company. 

[OftenWrong]

You are disavowing the maniacs from your company, and I hear that. From now on I will call you "normal something". 

[betsy]

11 hours ago, Altai said:

These are meaningless stupid words invented by Western people like as stupid words invented by Muslims too. 

There is no sects or groups in Islam, there is no radical, moderate, extremist, sunni, shia etc. There is only Islam. If you follow the rules, then you are a part of this company, if you dont follow the rules, you are not a part of it. Rules written in Quran. 

 

I think I agree with you......it's been explained to me that there is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim.   Muslims who identify as "moderate" aren't actually Muslims anymore in the real sense  (they just don't  know it yet).

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

I think I agree with you......it's been explained to me that there is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim.   Muslims who identify as "moderate" aren't actually Muslims anymore in the real sense  (they just don't  know it yet).

I disagree with this.  An individual can define themselves however they want.  Other Muslims might not agree, but it doesn't matter.  They can pound sand. 

[Mailman]

28 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

I think I agree with you......it's been explained to me that there is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim.   Muslims who identify as "moderate" aren't actually Muslims anymore in the real sense  (they just don't  know it yet).

Lol. What is "the real sense"? 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Lol. What is "the real sense"? 

I think the argument goes that the tenets of the Islamic faith are unchangeable, being the actual word of God, as opposed to stories from the time being written down over the ages.

But it's all bollocks.  It might be all true, but it's still all bollocks.  Muslims can do what they want..

That's what makes it so outrageous when some of them choose to do what they do.

Edited February 26, 2017 by bcsapper

[Mailman]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I think the argument goes that the tenets of the Islamic faith are unchangeable, being the actual word of God, as opposed to stories from the time being written down over the ages.

But it's all bollocks.  It might be all true, but it's still all bollocks.  Muslims can do what they want..

That's what makes it so outragous when some of them choose to do what they do.

I think she/he was trying to imply that because muslims aren't what they are portrayed to be by main stream media and politicians (murderers, terrorists, bombers, etc.), then one isn't considered a muslim. Hence the word "moderate". At least judging by that persons ignorance regarding this particular religion. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Mailman said:

I think she/he was trying to imply that because muslims aren't what they are portrayed to be by main stream media and politicians (murderers, terrorists, bombers, etc.), then one isn't considered a muslim. Hence the word "moderate". At least judging by that persons ignorance regarding this particular religion. 

It's difficult to tell, as most of us are on her ignore list.  I think she is of the opinion that Islam should rule one's life, including that part overlooked by government.  I would argue the point, but she wouldn't answer me.

The point I made has been argued back and forth on here a lot, and will be again today, I'll bet. 

Edited February 26, 2017 by bcsapper

[betsy]

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I disagree with this.  An individual can define themselves however they want.  Other Muslims might not agree, but it doesn't matter.  They can pound sand. 

 

I'm not saying they can't define themselves however they want. 

If they want to think of themselves as Muslims, they can,  and if they want to be referred to as Muslims,  I can respect that and  will refer to them as "Muslims")...........but I'm just not buying it.  In my opinion, based on the Quran....there's no such thing as "moderate" Muslim.

 

How do you define a moderate Muslim, btw?

Edited February 26, 2017 by betsy

[Guest]

Just now, betsy said:

 

I'm not saying they can't define themselves however they want.  If they want to think of themselves as Muslims, they can,  and if they want to be referred to as Muslims,  I can respect that and  will refer to them as "Muslims")...........but I'm just not buying it.

Why not?  There are Christians with differing views.  Why not Muslims?

[betsy]

54 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Why not?  There are Christians with differing views.  Why not Muslims?

Same principle. It's about  the doctrine.

There are Christians who accept gay marriage - of course imho, that's against the teachings of Christ. 

If they believe they are Christians even though they're going against Christ - of course, out of courtesy  I'll refer to them as Christians, although I know - based on the Bible - that a Christian has to follow the teachings of Christ.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by betsy

[Guest]

Just now, betsy said:

Same principle. It's about  the doctrine.

There are Christians who accept gay marriage - of course imho, that's against the teachings of Christ. 

If they believe they are Christians even though they're going against Christ - of course, out of courtesy  I'll refer to them as Christians, although I know - based on the Bible - that a Christian has to follow the teachings of Christ.

 

 

But the teachings of Christ have come down over the ages, translated, interpreted and translated again, written down, erased and rewritten by humans with biases and prejudices.  If you get much further than the the golden rule you can be unsure of its provenance, even as a believer. 

[betsy]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

But the teachings of Christ have come down over the ages, translated, interpreted and translated again, written down, erased and rewritten by humans with biases and prejudices.  If you get much further than the the golden rule you can be unsure of its provenance, even as a believer. 

I'm not going to go off topic with you debating Christianity.  I've stated my opinion on the matter!

[Guest]

Just now, betsy said:

I'm not going to go off topic with you debating Christianity.  I've stated my opinion on the matter!

Quite right.  I should know better.

[Argus]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

You are disavowing the maniacs from your company, and I hear that. From now on I will call you "normal something". 

You are reading into her words what you seem to want to read into them. She is disavowing no one except those who do not follow the teaching of Allah as she sees it.

And you do not know how she sees it.

[Argus]

You are working for a company, and you have very laid back, easy going management. Every lunch hour and on breaks, workers like to gather in the little strip of grass next to the building to enjoy the sunshine.

Next door to you is another company. It has very harsh management with very strict rules. It tells its workers that Jews are filth and gays must die and women who do not cover themselves modestly are whores.

When the workers from that company see people from your company taking it easy on the strip they get mad, because some are Jews, and some are women dressed immodestly, and some are gay. They throw things at them, and curse and shake their fists, and sometimes one or more will come over and attack people because that is what the rules of their own company tell them they should do.

Are you going to respect and admire the people from this company, or want nothing to do with them?