August1991 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) What is shame? (I reckon that Donald Trump, like many Native Americans, is shameless.) In this modern American world, we have made this old English noun into a verb. When is it allowed "to shame" someone? (I prefer the adjective: ashamed.) ======= If you speak another language than English, what is the translation of the word: shame. (In your language, is it possible "to shame" someone?) Edited February 21, 2017 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Shameless has taken on a new meaning - Unpolitically-correct. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 10 hours ago, August1991 said: What is shame? I always think of shame an an emotion when you are self conscious of having done something improper. It could also be in third person, the emotion associated with being conscious of someone else having done something improper. When in the third person, there is usually a connection with the third person (e.g. parent/child) that binds them. 11 hours ago, August1991 said: In this modern American world, we have made this old English noun into a verb. Yes, shame is also used as a verb, although I am not so sure that is only a recent development. Generally linguistic scholars look through old books and newspapers to find the first reference. The King James Version of the Bible is an early English text, and generally uses shame as a noun or in an idiom like "put to shame", I did a quick look and didn't see it used as a verb. It would be interesting to see if any modern translations have used it as a verb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 hours ago, betsy said: Shameless has taken on a new meaning - Unpolitically-correct. Nope, it means what it has always meant. Only those who never feel it don't know what it means 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 58 minutes ago, Wilber said: Nope, it means what it has always meant. Only those who never feel it don't know what it means Yep. If you're unpolitically correct - and you don't care that the politically correct try to shame you - you're shameless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Some people also confuse shame with embarassment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 hours ago, betsy said: Yep. If you're unpolitically correct - and you don't care that the politically correct try to shame you - you're shameless. No, intentionally lying and not caring even when people point out the lie, isn't being politically incorrect, it is just lying, and shameless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, -TSS- said: Some people also confuse shame with embarassment. True, they don't always go together, however one who isn't embarrassed when they are caught out in a lie, is shameless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 26 minutes ago, -TSS- said: Some people also confuse shame with embarassment. They are closely related emotions. The big difference is embarrassment relates to the others. I stole an extra slice of pie and felt shame, but then my mom caught me and I was embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) On 2/21/2017 at 7:00 PM, -TSS- said: Some people also confuse shame with embarassment. I agree with ?Impact, shame and embarrassment are similar; but the word "shame" has a German origin and the word "embarrassment" is French. When speaking English, I like words with a German birth. They are clear. ====== For the past few days, I have felt uncomfortable about my OP: Was I wrong to compare a shameless Trump with shameless "Native Americans"? Yet, I am astonished that Trump is without shame; and many Natives/Aboriginals are also without shame. Edited February 24, 2017 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Shame is something you feel about your own actions, embarrassment is is something you feel about how others view your actions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wilber said: Shame is something you feel about your own actions, embarrassment is is something you feel about how others view your actions. Wilber, you are a true federal Liberal Canadian. Like Laurier, you find sunny ways to make 2+3 = 7. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, August1991 said: Wilber, you are a true federal Liberal Canadian. Like Laurier, you find sunny ways to make 2+3 = 7. No, I understand English. Shame is something you can feel on your own without anyone knowing anything. You need other people to be embarrassed. Quote Embarrassment is an emotional state of intense discomfort with oneself, experienced when having a socially unacceptable act or condition witnessed by or revealed to others. Usually some amount of loss of honor or dignity is involved, but how much and the type depends on the embarrassing situation. It is similar to shame, except that shame may be experienced for an act known only to oneself. Also, embarrassment usually carries the connotation of being caused by an act that is merely socially unacceptable, rather than morally wrong. Quote Shame a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior. Edited February 24, 2017 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Back to the OP, Trump = shame Betsy would have us believe that lying and being politically incorrect are the same thing, which is an insult to anyone who is not politically correct. It is just another example of some Trumpites upside down ethics. Being politically incorrect is just presenting opinions that run contrary to current norms, not making up things that don't exist or never happened and presenting them as facts. That's just lying. I'm not positive Trump is shameless but he certainly often acts that way. Conway is definitely shameless and became a joke, so they have restricted her to friendly right wing interviewers only. I get the feeling Spicer does know the difference and struggles with it. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't long in this job and either resigns or has a breakdown. Edited February 24, 2017 by Wilber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) On 2/24/2017 at 3:09 PM, Wilber said: Back to the OP, Trump = shame Betsy would have us believe that lying and being politically incorrect are the same thing.... ... Wilber, like a typical liberal/Liberal in this 21st century world, you entirely miss the point of the OP. Wilber, are you Gerald Butts? Edited February 26, 2017 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 If you want to discuss the word, fine but why inject Trump into it if you don't want to make him part of the conversation. In my opinion you can't shame someone because it is something only they can do to themselves. Someone who is shameless can't be made to feel shame, although they might be embarrassed. I don't know WTF this has anything to do with whether someone might be a liberal or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 20 hours ago, August1991 said: Wilber, like a typical liberal/Liberal in this 21st century world, you entirely miss the point of the OP. You haven't noticed people usually DO miss the point of your indecipherable prognostications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) On 2/26/2017 at 8:16 PM, Argus said: You haven't noticed people usually DO miss the point of your indecipherable prognostications? Argus, according to you, who is "indecipherable"? Me or Wilber? Edited February 28, 2017 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 On 2/21/2017 at 1:13 AM, August1991 said: What is shame? (I reckon that Donald Trump, like many Native Americans, is shameless.) In this modern American world, we have made this old English noun into a verb. When is it allowed "to shame" someone? (I prefer the adjective: ashamed.) Here is an example, one of millions that could be made in English. I think the US, indeed, all western nations and vast swaths of their citizens, are soon going to be shamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 14 hours ago, hot enough said: I think the US, indeed, all western nations and vast swaths of their citizens, are soon going to be shamed. So are you thinking of going to Syria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) On 3/1/2017 at 0:14 AM, OftenWrong said: So are you thinking of going to Syria? So patently dishonest. So shameful. And yet no shame. Edited March 2, 2017 by hot enough clearer explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Shame is a social construct...like race. Shameful..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 If you lie to Congress about not meeting with the Russians, do you have any shame? If you are found out are you embarrassed? If you refuse to resign, where is your shame? Will your boss fire you for lying to Congress, especially after he fired another one for lying to the Vice President? If he doesn't, does he have any shame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." - President Bill Clinton (under oath in federal court) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." - President Bill Clinton (under oath in federal court) So you are suggesting that the new Attorney General should be impeached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.