The usage of "anti" and "phobia"

[?Impact]

58 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

One is against a people, the other is against a religion.  There's nothing wrong with being against a religion.

The whole point is that we as Canadians are not against a person because of their religion, that is enshrined in our Constitution (freedom of religion). We do no have to agree with or support any of those religions, we just don't discriminate against people because they do. Unfortunately because of the insistence of Jacob Epp, PC MP from Manitoba, the supremacy of God got included in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. At the time there was strong lobbying from the Evangelical Christians (100 Huntley Street, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada, etc.) to have God acknowledged in the Constitution; Epp was a Mennonite. We really need to fix that terrible mistake, and remove God from our Constitution. That is separate from the issue of freedom of religion, which might be clarified as freedom of religion or no religion (freedom from religion makes no sense). 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ?Impact said:

The whole point is that we as Canadians are not against a person because of their religion, that is enshrined in our Constitution (freedom of religion). We do no have to agree with or support any of those religions, we just don't discriminate against people because they do. Unfortunately because of the insistence of Jacob Epp, PC MP from Manitoba, the supremacy of God got included in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. At the time there was strong lobbying from the Evangelical Christians (100 Huntley Street, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada, etc.) to have God acknowledged in the Constitution; Epp was a Mennonite. We really need to fix that terrible mistake, and remove God from our Constitution. That is separate from the issue of freedom of religion, which might be clarified as freedom of religion or no religion (freedom from religion makes no sense). 

I agree.  I'd love to see religion removed completely from all public life.  I'll work Sunday and take Thursday off.  All laws pertaining to blasphemy sould be removed from the books. 

Freedom of religion should only apply to what an individual does with regard to themselves within the confines of the secular law.  Of course, figuring out what those confines are is one of the things that keep lawyers in gainful employment.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

 Unfortunately because of the insistence of Jacob Epp, PC MP from Manitoba, the supremacy of God got included in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

What's wrong with that?  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

What's wrong with that?  

Other than everything, nothing.

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I agree.  I'd love to see religion removed completely from all public life.  I'll work Sunday and take Thursday off.  All laws pertaining to blasphemy sould be removed from the books. 

Freedom of religion should only apply to what an individual does with regard to themselves within the confines of the secular law.  Of course, figuring out what those confines are is one of the things that keep lawyers in gainful employment.

Freedom from religion, as well.

So no choppin' heads just because your cult's 'holy book' says it's okay to murder the unbelievers.

Points of interest...

Anti derives from the Greek/Berber myth of Antaeus: The Opponent...a demigod who was unbeatable in wrestling as long as as he remained in contact with Mother Earth. Hercules eventually beat him via a crushing bear hug...lifting Antaeus's feet from the ground.

Xeno...another Ancient Greek word, means Stranger. It's connection to to our lovely word xenophobia might seem rather direct (stranger danger!)...but it is likely filtered through the writings of Xenophon (the original stranger in a strange land...so to speak) who tended to view non-Greeks with extreme distrust...for obvious reasons if you know Ancient Greek history re: the Persian Empire. This is quite apparent in his writings like Anabasis (March of the Ten Thousand) where he and a Greek mercenary army were betrayed by their Persian employers and trapped behind enemy lines...not a lot of friendly faces. They hacked their way out...generally.

Phobia: More Greek...Phobos (Fear), one of two twin sons of Ares and Aphrodite  (Deimos the other: Terror...heh). They'd ride into battle next to dear ol' Dad and his two goddess sisters: Enyo and Eris...strife and discord...something like that. The family that fights together...stays together?

Edited March 14, 2017 by DogOnPorch

[?Impact]

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Freedom from religion, as well.

Freedom of religion or no religion. I don`t understand what freedom from religion means, it seems to be in direct contrast to freedom of religion. Do you want those holy rollers standing out on the street corner with their amazing life message magazine to be locked up? Do you want all churches to be in nondescript buildings, without any chimes? Do you want to take the evangelical preachers off of television?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, ?Impact said:

Freedom of religion or no religion. I don`t understand what freedom from religion means, it seems to be in direct contrast to freedom of religion. Do you want those holy rollers standing out on the street corner with their amazing life message magazine to be locked up? Do you want all churches to be in nondescript buildings, without any chimes? Do you want to take the evangelical preachers off of television?

 

Banning and locking folks up for thought crimes is more an Impact sort of thing.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Freedom of religion or no religion. I don`t understand what freedom from religion means, it seems to be in direct contrast to freedom of religion. Do you want those holy rollers standing out on the street corner with their amazing life message magazine to be locked up? Do you want all churches to be in nondescript buildings, without any chimes? Do you want to take the evangelical preachers off of television?

I'd like to see complete freedom from religious influence on all aspects of our lives.  One thing that comes to mind is assisted suicide.  I would like to see it freely available for anyone who feels like it, and I think that opposition to that comes more from those with religious views than those with secular views.  Not completely.  Same with abortion.

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I'd like to see complete freedom from religious influence on all aspects of our lives.  One thing that comes to mind is assisted suicide.  I would like to see it freely available for anyone who feels like it, and I think that opposition to that comes more from those with religious views than those with secular views.  Not completely.  Same with abortion.

 

Remove any and all tax incentives and exclusions...number 1.

Remove things like Halal Certification w/o choice. I hate the idea of a religious tax on things I buy...hidden or not. I don't care which cult does it, but Islam is the worst.

[dre]

I DO see "anti-islamic" used a bit.  I think "semiticphobia" just doesn't roll off the tongue nice. The meaning is more or less the same, and equally vile in both cases.

[DogOnPorch]

Antisemitism is a word coined by Wilhelm Marr in the 19th century. It was done to give a feeling of scientific legitimacy to Jew-hatred. Not Arabs...who weren't an issue in 1870s Germany.

This is the book...

http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/Marr-Text-English.pdf

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dre said:

I DO see "anti-islamic" used a bit.  I think "semiticphobia" just doesn't roll off the tongue nice. The meaning is more or less the same, and equally vile in both cases.

No they aren't.  As I said earlier:

Quote

One is against a people, the other is against a religion.  There's nothing wrong with being against a religion.

 

[Hal 9000]

I don't object to being called "anti" Islamic, I am.  I don't believe in women as second (or lower) class people, I don't believe girls should be stoned for adultery, I don't believe gays should be executed, honour killings - so on and so forth, I don't believe in these things that 80 or 90% of muslims believe.  So, I guess it is fair to say that I'm "Anti" Islamic.  I don't want any of that philosophy creeping into Canada.  Because I'm not actually afraid of muslims, I don't consider myself "Islamaphobic", however the expression of being Anti-Islamic is perceived (or twisted) by the left as Islamaphobia for one simple reason - to downplay and belittle the Idea.  The use of the word "phobia" (as in homophobia) in these cases, is simply to pivot the conversation from "dislike" to "fear" - essentially the left pivoting from defence (defending Islam) to offence (your fear is irrational).   

[?Impact]

14 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

 I don't believe in these things that 80 or 90% of muslims believe.

Do you believe in misquoting statistics? When 70% say Sharia should be the law of the land, and 81% of those agree with stoning, that makes 57%, not 90%. That would be from one of the worst of the countries (Egypt), and most are far lower than that (e.g. Turkey works out to 10%).

Edited March 15, 2017 by ?Impact

[Hal 9000]

26 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Do you believe in misquoting statistics? When 70% say Sharia should be the law of the land, and 81% of those agree with stoning, that makes 57%, not 90%. That would be from one of the worst of the countries (Egypt), and most are far lower than that (e.g. Turkey works out to 10%).

To believe stats, one must believe the source, believe the methods used in obtaining stats and believe the word of those questioned.  Some lean a little to your side, some to mine - fair enough, but if your argument is that in a country like Egypt, 57% of the entire population believes that a teenage girl should be buried up to her shoulders and have rocks, small rocks as to not kill her too quickly, thrown at her head until she is dead - well, I think I'll stick with my assessment.

 

[?Impact]

16 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

To believe stats, one must believe the source, believe the methods used in obtaining stats and believe the word of those questioned.  Some lean a little to your side, some to mine - fair enough, but if your argument is that in a country like Egypt, 57% of the entire population believes that a teenage girl should be buried up to her shoulders and have rocks, small rocks as to not kill her too quickly, thrown at her head until she is dead - well, I think I'll stick with my assessment.

No, that is 57% of the Muslim population (polled). You would need to multiply that by 88% to get a total of 50% of the population. The poll question did not say "teenage girl, not to kill her to quickly, etc" but then you like to misquote statistics anyway.

[Hal 9000]

3 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

No, that is 57% of the Muslim population (polled). You would need to multiply that by 88% to get a total of 50% of the population. The poll question did not say "teenage girl, not to kill her to quickly, etc" but then you like to misquote statistics anyway.

You clearly have no understanding of what stoning entails, who is punished, who carries out the stoning and what rules are associated with stoning...eg, there is actually a certain size stone that is acceptable - you should probably watch a stoning sometime.

[?Impact]

8 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

You clearly have no understanding of what stoning entails, who is punished, who carries out the stoning and what rules are associated with stoning...eg, there is actually a certain size stone that is acceptable - you should probably watch a stoning sometime.

Except stoning is illegal in Egypt, so those Muslims are not experts in the art like you. Yes there have been a few rare incidents of "community justice" that involved stoning, including one a couple of years back of a man being stoned for stabbing his wife. The Quran does not mention stoning, you are referring specifically to Iran and its penal code. Stoning can be found in the Bible and Torah however, and was used in ancient Greece.

[DogOnPorch]

11 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Except stoning is illegal in Egypt, so those Muslims are not experts in the art like you. Yes there have been a few rare incidents of "community justice" that involved stoning, including one a couple of years back of a man being stoned for stabbing his wife. The Quran does not mention stoning, you are referring specifically to Iran and its penal code. Stoning can be found in the Bible and Torah however, and was used in ancient Greece.

 

The Hadiths, however, do mention stoning...

[DogOnPorch]

...a lot.

[Hal 9000]

The original point remains, Muslims have a belief system that I dislike, therefore I am Anti-Islamic.  I don't fear them and I can't in good conscience justify what they do - as people like you and Dialamah seem able to.  

Do, I believe that our system is better, do I believe that our justice is better, our tolerance, our culture, our politics?  Absolutely!  Am I personally better that the vast majority of Muslims based on my belief system versus theirs?  Again, absolutely!   

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Hal 9000 said:

The original point remains, Muslims have a belief system that I dislike, therefore I am Anti-Islamic.  I don't fear them and I can't in good conscience justify what they do - as people like you and Dialamah seem able to.  

Do, I believe that our system is better, do I believe that our justice is better, our tolerance, our culture, our politics?  Absolutely!  Am I personally better that the vast majority of Muslims based on my belief system versus theirs?  Again, absolutely!   

 

Islam like to take credit for pretty much everything. Including Western Civilization. It's the Borg-like nature of the beast. Assimilation of the conquered folk's culture/knowledge = Islamic accomplishment!

[?Impact]

6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

The Hadiths, however, do mention stoning...

The Hadith is a large collection of mostly irrelevant sayings that someone attributed to Muhammed in order to propagate their agenda. There are well over a half million Hadith, but how many of them are considered true or sound? There have been attempts to validate them, the Sahih of Bukhari has 2712 unique entries and the Sahih of Muslim has about 4000 unique entries (yes there are overlaps between these two sources). 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, ?Impact said:

The Hadith is a large collection of mostly irrelevant sayings that someone attributed to Muhammed in order to propagate their agenda. There are well over a half million Hadith, but how many of them are considered true or sound? There have been attempts to validate them, the Sahih of Bukhari has 2712 unique entries and the Sahih of Muslim has about 4000 unique entries (yes there are overlaps between these two sources). 

 

You're free to belittle the importance of the Hadiths (the sayings of Mohammad). I suppose you have to in order to make a case for Islam = Peace.

[?Impact]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

You're free to belittle the importance of the Hadiths (the sayings of Mohammad). I suppose you have to in order to make a case for Islam = Peace.

I am only pointing out the works of Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim who lived centuries ago and complied what they saw as the true Hadith and not what other people have created before and after and attributed to Muhammed for their own purposes. A lot of what people claim to be Hadith are the same as fortune cookies that claim Confucius say. What agenda are you trying to propagate?