JamesHackerMP Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Our new president wants to cozy up to Russia and screw China. I have to admit, as much as I dislike him, that he's at least grasped one fundamental truth: you cannot screw both Russia and China. It's one or the other. So it brings up an important question? What to do about China as well as Russia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 It's not a new strategy.....the Soviets and Chinese tried to do the same against the U.S/NATO/SEATO during the Cold War. Russia offers several advantages over China for shared interests in Europe and the Middle East. China is a challenge for Asia and western Pacific allies. Russia is a military threat....China is an economic challenge. I think the U.S. should get back to normalized relations with the Russian Federation at a minimum, just like presidents before Barack Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Red China still has the DF-5A and similar 5mt city smashers. They still take wiping-out everybody seriously! Edited January 22, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Red China still has the DF-5A and similar 5mt city smashers. They still take wiping-out everybody seriously! China has a longer view, and will not typically react militarily unless provoked in their region. Putin can cause more short term headaches for more allied nations. Get Putin's oil based economy back on track, and lots of other good things will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: China has a longer view, and will not typically react militarily unless provoked in their region. Putin can cause more short term headaches for more allied nations. Get Putin's oil based economy back on track, and lots of other good things will happen. I see zero reason to be Russia's enemy. I'm a big Churchill fan and I believe in the whole spheres of influence dealie. We wouldn't like it if Russia intervened in Mexico...or Cuba...rightly so them with the Johnny-Come-Lately former S.S.R.s turned NATO pawns. I'd be right ticked...lol. Tanks on MY border?? As Cartman would say: Screw you guys. (And boom goes the Katyusha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I see zero reason to be Russia's enemy. I'm a big Churchill fan and I believe in the whole spheres of influence dealie. We wouldn't like it if Russia intervened in Mexico...or Cuba...rightly so them with the Johnny-Come-Lately former S.S.R.s turned NATO pawns. I'd be right ticked...lol. Tanks on MY border?? I agree...NATO overreached in eastern Europe. I am old and long for the time when a strong Soviet Union would crush mutual enemies. Russia can bomb the crap out of ISIS without regard to a room full of Canadian human rights lawyers and activists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I note, as well, that the RSM-56 Bulava is getting far more reliable than it was a few years back. They were having a terrible time with it. I think it was cause of some timidity on Russia's part. 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I agree...NATO overreached in eastern Europe. I am old and long for the time when a strong Soviet Union would crush mutual enemies. Russia can bomb the crap out of ISIS without regard to a room full of Canadian human rights lawyers and activists. As we discussed earlier, Russia has been making use of all its Cold War toys of yore without so much as a peep out of the peanut gallery. The sight of Tu-95s doing Viet-Nam style radar carpet bombing is awesome, however. Especially those massed Willy Petes that break open high over the battlefield and rain fire down on the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 History will repeat itself....Stalin and Roosevelt cooperated to get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: Our new president wants to cozy up to Russia and screw China. I have to admit, as much as I dislike him, that he's at least grasped one fundamental truth: you cannot screw both Russia and China. It's one or the other. So it brings up an important question? What to do about China as well as Russia? Invite them into the co-Dominium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: History will repeat itself....Stalin and Roosevelt cooperated to get the job done. China has its sphere, too. Which is why North Korea hasn't been flattened like a pancake. Shoulda listened to MacArthur...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Just now, DogOnPorch said: China has its sphere, too. Which is why North Korea hasn't been flattened like a pancake. Shoulda listened to MacArthur...lol. Yes, but China grows tired of the DPRK's game as well. It is remains a bargaining chip that is tolerated for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 23 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes, but China grows tired of the DPRK's game as well. It is remains a bargaining chip that is tolerated for now. North Korea has been showing-off its new ICBM and launcher which looks to be a Topol-ish system with an apparent 7-8,000 km range. Hard to say how functional it is, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: North Korea has been showing-off its new ICBM and launcher which looks to be a Topol-ish system with an apparent 7-8,000 km range. Hard to say how functional it is, of course. I think Japan may have to play the military card with offensive weapons systems, which means more escalation. South Korea is limited by UN resolutions, but that could change as well. China has great interior position for defense, but not much of a player yet for power projection even with the DPRK. Recall the U.S. SSGN's that purposely showed up in the western Pacific for Chinese intelligence gathering. Edited January 22, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I think Japan may have to play the military card with offensive weapons systems, which means more escalation. South Korea is limited by UN resolutions, but that could change as well. China has great interior position for defense, but not much of a player yet for power projection even with the DPRK. Jump carriers are fun n' all. But they're really only for air superiority purposes near the fleet. Chinese and Russian carriers are kind of a joke*... Now look at the 'tiny' USS America...now sporting a dozen F-35s + other Marine goodies. That ship now packs a BIG punch. More to follow... * been checking out deck-ops on the Chinese carriers....waiting for one of those fellas to get sucked up...not a lot of deck skills. Edited January 22, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Japan is facing a real existential threat...they are rethinking their post-WW2 constitutional ban on offensive weapons systems, including nuclear weapons. Along with the Fukishima disaster, we can look forward to lots more Japanese monster movies...Godzilla lives ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Japan is facing a real existential threat...they are rethinking their post-WW2 constitutional ban on offensive weapons systems, including nuclear weapons. Along with the Fukishima disaster, we can look forward to lots more Japanese monster movies...Godzilla lives ! Japan deserves a lot of respect. Heck, they went to the firewall with the USA. And they LIKED you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I think the U.S. should get back to normalized relations with the Russian Federation at a minimum, just like presidents before Barack Obama. George W Bush and Putin were real close pals when Russia invaded Georgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Smallc said: George W Bush and Putin were real close pals when Russia invaded Georgia. And when the U.S. invaded Iraq. Edited January 22, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHackerMP Posted January 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: North Korea has been showing-off its new ICBM and launcher which looks to be a Topol-ish system with an apparent 7-8,000 km range. Hard to say how functional it is, of course. Most likely 1,000 Koreans will get behind it to hold it up and throw it in the direction of Honolulu. So whose enemy should we be? Edited January 22, 2017 by JamesHackerMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 15 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: I see zero reason to be Russia's enemy. Would you have seen zero reason to be Nazi Germany's enemy? I don't believe Putin is any less bloody minded than Hitler was, and he's definitely in the mood for pushing against his borders. If you're a fan of Churchill you ought to know that Churchill was the first to recognize that appeasing a bloody minded dictator wouldn't work, and that the only thing that deterred them was the certainty of force, heavily applied in overwhelming strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) I would be much more worried about China than Russia. China is a rising power, Russia is waning fast. If it were not for its nuclear arsenal, Russia would be taken about as seriously as Indonesia or Bangladesh, a military giant but an economic dwarf. Edited January 22, 2017 by -TSS- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: Would you have seen zero reason to be Nazi Germany's enemy? I don't believe Putin is any less bloody minded than Hitler was, and he's definitely in the mood for pushing against his borders. If you're a fan of Churchill you ought to know that Churchill was the first to recognize that appeasing a bloody minded dictator wouldn't work, and that the only thing that deterred them was the certainty of force, heavily applied in overwhelming strength. Churchill believed in Spheres of Influence. That doesn't translate to liking Stalin. I believe it was ol' Winston that said Bolshevism should have been strangled in its cradle. He meant it. I love that Iron Curtain speech, too...btw. A great example of his words = deeds was Iran and the Persian Corridor. It didn't become yet another SSR in the USSR as planed by Stalin and pals. Not ever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'm not sure how up you are on the Russian Revolution and following Civil War...but many countries...including the UK...invaded Russia on the White side. They lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 13 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: Most likely 1,000 Koreans will get behind it to hold it up and throw it in the direction of Honolulu. So whose enemy should we be? These fellas are learning rocketry quickly enough. Like Iran, they already have the ability to lob a small payload into LEO for a few shaky orbits...the rest comes with more thrust...easily obtained via the use of solid rocket-boosters lashed to the side. However, NK's biggest problem in this regard was that without a mobile launcher system, they're forced to use a fixed pad...Kaboom. Easy target. This is apparently now a thing-of-the-past. Hard to tell at this juncture....but it seems to be a three stage missile likely powered by hypergolic fuel rather than solid propellants (judging by the shape). Or it could be a plywood mock-up. Red China for sure. They play only for Red China...no one else. Russia might see eye to eye on some issues we hold dear. Communist China? Nahhhh. These folks squash their own under tank treads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Churchill believed in Spheres of Influence. That doesn't translate to liking Stalin. I believe it was ol' Winston that said Bolshevism should have been strangled in its cradle. He meant it. I love that Iron Curtain speech, too...btw. Indeed....Britain played the "Great Game" for over a century, but Roosevelt was not having any of that....rebuild Europe instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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