Demonization - a how to manual

[dialamah]

I have said that some people on this forum are demonizing Muslims, and in response to Argus' question to me (below), thought I'd open a discussion on it.   

21 hours ago, Argus said:

So if a group worships Satan and practices ritual sacrifice and child rape you'd be indignant about them being demonized, right?

If every single Satanist practiced ritual sacrifice and child rape, and no other group ever did - then they'd be hard to demonize around that, wouldn't they?   Being the one and only practitioners of such atrocities at virtually 100% participation would mean the claims of this group being and supporting evil would be true.

But if ritual sacrifice and child rape were practiced by many other groups, and if not every single Satanist followed that practice, and many were against it, then claiming that every Satanist was guilty of these two practices, while simultaneously making the claim that nobody (or almost nobody) else was - well, those claims wouldn't be true.   And, in the context of creating ill-will, discrimination and proposing/supporting laws to target Satanists based on the misinformation that they, and only they, carried out human sacrifice/child rape would be demonizing them.  

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by dialamah

[dialamah]

How do you suppose public support for interring innocent Japanese Canadians (and Japanese Americans) was generated?  By making claims that might have applied to a minority of Japanese people as if they applied to all, by making the claim that Japanese would be more loyal to Japan than to Canada, by exaggerating stereotypes attributed to Japanese, by presenting them as a threat to our security - and to our women.    The fact that most Japanese were loyal to Canada, were not interested in participating in suicide bombing raids and were not out raping our women was as ignored as are similar facts about Muslims today.  

I have no doubt that almost every citizen who supported removing Japanese from their communities believed they were 'protecting' Canadians and/or the Canadian way of life.   It seem to be only in hindsight do people recognize when propaganda, relying on misinformation and fear, has resulted in a one group becoming the victim of the larger group's hatred.   Luckily for the Japanese, they only suffered work camps and losing their property and homes.   The Jews lost much, much more.  

You can read a bit about it here.

http://app.ufv.ca/fvhistory/studentsites/wwII/japanesecanadianswwII/index.html

See how the propaganda told us Japanese threatened our women .....

 

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by dialamah

[dialamah]

So how were the Jews been demonized in Germany?   Regardless of the facts of how Jews lived their life within Germany, the propaganda against them painted a picture of a group focused on enslavement of German people, and poisoned it's culture.    

Quote

....Nazi propagandists portrayed Jews as an “alien race” that fed off the host nation, poisoned its culture, seized its economy, and enslaved its workers and farmers.

Notice how "threat to culture" is a theme for the anti-Japanese propaganda, the anti-Jew propaganda and now, the anti-Muslim propaganda.   

Another common theme, apparent in anti-Muslim rhetoric today, as well as in the second world war propaganda against Jews and Japanese is the threat to women.  Here's a Nazi poster, similar to the Japanese one above:

 

 

And a more graphic one ....

 

[Guest]

You could be right!  The propaganda has already had an effect in Denmark...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/denmark-isis-fighters-benefits-welfare-payments-unemployment-syria-government-plan-terror-syria-iraq-a7526566.html

Edited January 14, 2017 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

[dialamah]

Haha!  Yes, ISIS is a terror group, so I would agree their members should not be receiving benefits.  (Admittedly I only read the headline, so don't know what the details are).  

But in terms of a response to propaganda, the law would have to apply to *ALL* Muslims, not just an identified terror group.

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Haha!  Yes, ISIS is a terror group, so I would agree their members should not be receiving benefits.  (Admittedly I only read the headline, so don't know what the details are).  

But in terms of a response to propaganda, the law would have to apply to *ALL* Muslims, not just an identified terror group.

 

My point being, of course, that such is how horrific the anti Muslim sentiment actually manifests itself currently.

When your posters receive government sanction I'll stand with you on the barricades and protect my Muslim neighbours.

 

[dialamah]

Just now, bcsapper said:

My point being, of course, that such is how horrific the anti Muslim sentiment actually manifests itself currently.

When your posters receive government sanction I'll stand with you on the barricades and protect my Muslim neighbours.

 

Well, it's nice to know you'll be there at the very last moment, but it would be even nicer if you were also interested in reducing the spread of misinformation and anti-Muslim rhetoric so that it never gets to that point. 

[Guest]

Just now, dialamah said:

Well, it's nice to know you'll be there at the very last moment, but it would be even nicer if you were also interested in reducing the spread of misinformation and anti-Muslim rhetoric so that it never gets to that point. 

I am.  Very much so.  If you ever see me do that, please let me know.

 

[Hal 9000]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Haha!  Yes, ISIS is a terror group, so I would agree their members should not be receiving benefits.  (Admittedly I only read the headline, so don't know what the details are).  

But in terms of a response to propaganda, the law would have to apply to *ALL* Muslims, not just an identified terror group.

 

Can you at least broaden your thread to include the propaganda and laws that you're referring to?

[betsy]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

I have said that some people on this forum are demonizing Muslims, and in response to Argus' question to me (below), thought I'd open a discussion on it.   

If every single Satanist practiced ritual sacrifice and child rape, and no other group ever did - then they'd be hard to demonize around that, wouldn't they?   Being the one and only practitioners of such atrocities at virtually 100% participation would mean the claims of this group being and supporting evil would be true.

 

 

 

Being a member of the group, validates the group's belief - whether this member actually participates in the rituals, or not.   He's a quiet accomplice to the crimes being done by Satanists.

Tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who you are.

 

Would you entrust your children to a Satanist?

 

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

How do you suppose public support for interring innocent Japanese Canadians (and Japanese Americans) was generated?  By making claims that might have applied to a minority of Japanese people as if they applied to all, by making the claim that Japanese would be more loyal to Japan than to Canada, by exaggerating stereotypes attributed to Japanese, by presenting them as a threat to our security - and to our women.    The fact that most Japanese were loyal to Canada, were not interested in participating in suicide bombing raids and were not out raping our women was as ignored as are similar facts about Muslims today.  

I have no doubt that almost every citizen who supported removing Japanese from their communities believed they were 'protecting' Canadians and/or the Canadian way of life.   It seem to be only in hindsight do people recognize when propaganda, relying on misinformation and fear, has resulted in a one group becoming the victim of the larger group's hatred.   Luckily for the Japanese, they only suffered work camps and losing their property and homes.   The Jews lost much, much more.  

You can read a bit about it here.

http://app.ufv.ca/fvhistory/studentsites/wwII/japanesecanadianswwII/index.html

See how the propaganda told us Japanese threatened our women .....

 

 

 

Oh those movies that really dwell on the atrocities committed to Japanese-Americans.......interment of Japanese was also for their own good!  Just think how it would've been for them if they weren't protected in a camp!

 

Japanese see their Emperor as a god!  It was war time!  With the bombing of Pearl Harbor, they don't know whom they can trust. That's the point!

 

Propaganda - a way of boosting morale -  is the norm during wartime!   

 

And yes, indeed - those hateful propaganda against Japanese is the only reason you need to justify interment:  to prevent the bloodshed of the innocents!

Edited January 14, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

My point being, of course, that such is how horrific the anti Muslim sentiment actually manifests itself currently.

When your posters receive government sanction I'll stand with you on the barricades and protect my Muslim neighbours.

 

Maybe when you stop paying so much attention to the concerns of the racists and bigots around here your protection of Muslims will appear more sincere. 

[Guest]

Just now, eyeball said:

Maybe when you stop paying so much attention to the concerns of the racists and bigots around here your protection of Muslims will appear more sincere. 

The appearance of sincerity is not an issue. I know my mind.  Maybe you should stop referring to concerns over barbaric cultural practices as racism. 

[eyeball]

I'm not, I'm referring to the way people express their concerns, apologies and justifications.

[Argus]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

I have said that some people on this forum are demonizing Muslims, and in response to Argus' question to me (below), thought I'd open a discussion on it.   

If every single Satanist practiced ritual sacrifice and child rape, and no other group ever did - then they'd be hard to demonize around that, wouldn't they?

Why? And you're using a pretty broad defense. Ie, if EVERY SINGLE SATANIST practiced ritual sacrifice and no other group EVER did. So if you don't murder children yourself but go to the church (do Satanists have a church) with the people who do, are voluntarily a member of their child ritual killing church, you're innocent of wrongdoing?

And if only, say, 80% of them practice ritual child killing then it's wrong to demonize the group? Or, if 80% of them practice ritual killing, while on the far side of the world, there are small groups which occasionally sacrifice children, then that makes it wrong to demonize them? 

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

  Being the one and only practitioners of such atrocities at virtually 100% participation would mean the claims of this group being and supporting evil would be true.

What if the group had a holy book (Unholy book?) which taught how wonderful and good it was to ritually sacrifice and rape children, and this was taught in every unchurch and at every festival and a part of the belief system of all the membership of that group.  Are you saying you'd be fine if  the people who read that book, and respect it and generally abide by it, and go to the Unchurch and pray to Satan move in next door to you?

 

 

 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

How do you suppose public support for interring innocent Japanese Canadians (and Japanese Americans) was generated?  By making claims that might have applied to a minority of Japanese people as if they applied to all,

Who has made claims that apply to a minority of Muslims, if at all?

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm not, I'm referring to the way people express their concerns, apologies and justifications.

Concerns over barbaric cultural practices should be shouted from the rooftops.  It could save lives.

I agree that any apologists or justfiers should be met with derision.

Edited January 14, 2017 by bcsapper

[eyeball]

Okay, whatever you say chief.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Okay, whatever you say chief.

Well, obviously, but so few people seem to get that.

[eyeball]

Well, a couple of us seem to be saying the same thing with regard to how you express your concern so maybe we get something better than you think.

[Guest]

Just now, eyeball said:

Well, a couple of us seem to be saying the same thing with regard to how you express your concern so maybe we get something better than you think.

No, I don't think that's it.

I do think there are those who understand the concerns, but are reluctant to give full expression to them due to other concerns they have.  Concerns I don't have, because I don't believe in tarring entire groups of people wth the same brush.

[eyeball]

Perhaps you only believe that a little bit. I know I often have a hard time believing you.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Perhaps you only believe that a little bit. I know I often have a hard time believing you.

I believe it totally, and the amount I believe it does not affect whether or not you believe me.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

If every single Satanist practiced ritual sacrifice and child rape, and no other group ever did - then they'd be hard to demonize around that, wouldn't they?   Being the one and only practitioners of such atrocities at virtually 100% participation would mean the claims of this group being and supporting evil would be true.

But if ritual sacrifice and child rape were practiced by many other groups, and if not every single Satanist followed that practice, and many were against it, then claiming that every Satanist was guilty of these two practices, while simultaneously making the claim that nobody (or almost nobody) else was - well, those claims wouldn't be true.   And, in the context of creating ill-will, discrimination and proposing/supporting laws to target Satanists based on the misinformation that they, and only they, carried out human sacrifice/child rape would be demonizing them. 

You're 100% right.  A lot of people. including some on this board, stereotype all Muslims and all variants of Islam.  There's even quite a few moderate practicing female Muslims that don't even wear a hijab or any head coverings.  It's exactly the same as if one would demonize all Christians because some Mormons practice polygamy, or because many Christian Scientists don't believe in taking medication if you're ill.  These people are small-minded, close-minded, and quite frankly are ignorant and don't even know what they're talking about nor taken the time to befriend a Muslim to actually understand them beyond what they read in the news.

Never judge a book by its cover.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

[dialamah]

59 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Being a member of the group, validates the group's belief - whether this member actually participates in the rituals, or not.   He's a quiet accomplice to the crimes being done by Satanists.

 

 

Really?  So, as a Christian, you are a 'quiet accomplice' in the crimes of Warren Jeffs?    How about the priests and ministers who sexually assaulted children?  They're all Christians, so surely you are a 'quiet accomplice'.

No?  So why can you to reject what (some) other Christians do, but not accept that other people may do the same within their faith group?

 

Quote

Would you entrust your children to a Satanist?

Maybe.   Let's find out about Satanists.

What are Satanists?  

Quote

Satanists are atheists. We see the universe as being indifferent to us, and so all morals and values are subjective human constructions.

 

Do they practice human sacrifice?  

Quote

No. We are atheists. The only people who perform sacrifices are those who believe in supernatural beings who would consider a sacrifice to be some form of payment for a request or form of worship. Since we do not believe in supernatural beings there is no reason for a Satanist to make a sacrifice of any sort.

 

Are they pedophiles? 

Quote

Satanism has strong rules prohibiting sexual activity with children and non-human animals. In fact, if a Church of Satan member abuses children sexually or otherwise, his membership is automatically terminated without possibility for re-instatement. The Church of Satan also does not accept anyone who is not legally adult as an Active Member. In Satanism, sexual activity is only advocated between consenting adults.

 

Thus far, it looks like Satanism is safer than Christianity for kids.