Castro is dead. What next for Cuba?

[-TSS-]

Even though Fidel has been away for some time from the leadership of the country his death clearly marks an end of an era. How many people in Cuba are mourning and how many people are thinking "good riddance" is anyone's guess. The news reports tell about wild street celebrations in Miami, which gives you a clue about the popularity of the deceased leader.

Where from now? Will Cuba open up and turn into another Central-American/Caribbean country, which in reality means subservience to the US but if the alternative is poverty then no prizes for guessing which is the preferred option.

Expect a tidal wave of immigration from Cuba and long days for lawyers in Florida working for Cuban-Americans trying to reclaim their lost property in Cuba.

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by -TSS-

[bush_cheney2004]

Castro was the Trudeau family's favourite dictator, and Justin Trudeau has expressed his sincerest condolences.   Castro's Cuba was also a fave for Canadian tourists...a warm place to go on the cheap with few Americans around.  

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fidel-castro-trudeau-condolences-1.3869280

 

[poochy]

#Trudeaueulogies is trending and no wonder, what an idiot this man is, you're not supposed to say that some of these people on the left yearn for communism because that makes you an extremist, it doesn't matter what signs they show or what actions they take, no, your the extremist, eulogizing a goddamn communist dictator, how absolutely stupid would you have to be to do that?  Or maybe we have been so easy on people like this for so long that they think it's ok to express their true colors now, then again he already told us how much he admired China, not to mention the little matter of being cosy with Chinese billionaires and Communist party members.  I dont hang out with Nazi's or know anyone on the far right, nor do i sympathize with their views, but i will be the extremist for noticing the far left tendancies of my PM.  that's how it works in Canada, the idiots are in charge.

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/fidel-castro-en/article117186483.html

 

His own daughter calls him a tyrant, and our communist sympathizer PM is eulogizing him.

Edited November 26, 2016 by poochy

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, poochy said:

#Trudeaueulogies is trending and no wonder, what an idiot this man is, you're not supposed to say that some of these people on the left yearn for communism because that makes you an extremist, it doesn't matter what signs they show or what actions they take, no, your the extremist, eulogizing a goddamn communist dictator, how absolutely stupid would you have to be to do that?

Trudeau seems to have a fascination for dictators, at least, those who are leftist. He loves the Communists in China, too, and spoke admiringly of their ability to get things done.

 

[Bryan]

I would not expect much to change short term. Raul is the one in charge, and has been for quite some time. He also has a succession plan in place, and said two years ago that he was stepping down in 2018. Perhaps after that we might see some real movement.

[eyeball]

35 minutes ago, poochy said:

.... i will be the extremist for noticing the far left tendancies of my PM.

Far left...lol.

What about all the right wing crap that typifies Trudeau?  Selling arms to dictator, maintaining the criminality of pot..taking money from billionaire oligarchs....

Far left... ha ha ha ha! 

[Icebound]

Castro was a dictator, and it will be argued in these pages how many deaths he is responsible for... 

However, the question is:  .... what would have been different with Batista?   Do we seriously think that there would have been any less repression?

Oh, I am sure American businessmen would have done very well, along with Batista's family and friends.... but what would the Cuban health and education systems looked like?

 

Remember how the USA's corporate and political elite have so disillusioned the  "little guy" in the heartland, that he voted in a bombastic outsider to shake things up?

Well, those "little guys" are the ones that love Castro... and it is the  elite that find him reprehensible.  

Be careful of our "little guys" and their picks.

 

Cuba's repressive state incarcerates something like 510 people for every 100,000 poplulation.

The democracy-champion USofA?   693.

 

In summary... sure: Dictator, tyrant, self-serving, hated by many, loved by many,  Pretty much the average world leader, these days.

[bush_cheney2004]

35 minutes ago, Icebound said:

In summary... sure: Dictator, tyrant, self-serving, hated by many, loved by many,  Pretty much the average world leader, these days.

 

Or days long past....Castro was Canada's favourite dictator.   I wonder how many Cubans ever made it to Canada ?

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Icebound said:

Castro was a dictator, and it will be argued in these pages how many deaths he is responsible for... 

However, the question is:  .... what would have been different with Batista?   Do we seriously think that there would have been any less repression?

Batista would not have lasted this long. Most of the tinpot dictators in South and Central America have long since given way to democracies or at least semi-democracies.

 

Lisa Rait released this letter today.

Prime Minister Trudeau, 

To mark the passing of former Cuban dictator Fidel Castro, you issued a statement in which you referred to Castro as a “larger than life leader” and a “legendary revolutionary” with “tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people”. You issued this statement “on behalf of all Canadians”. Not in my name, Prime Minister. Not in the name of millions of Canadians who have no love for injustice. Canada is one of the greatest free societies in the world. 

As our Prime Minister, you must retract this statement and apologize immediately. To quote your statement, which Cubans do you feel have a “deep and loving affection” for Castro? The thousands of dissenters he arrested and executed? The hundreds of thousands who fled Cuba, only to be shot if they returned? The members of the LGBT community whom he had arrested and jailed? The society that he has been trapped in poverty for decades? These actions can’t be ignored. 

In your statement, you dismissed Castro’s crimes as simply “controversial”. They were not controversial. They were egregious crimes against humanity, and you should be ashamed to give your approval to a brutal regime that exported terror. In the coming days, you will no doubt be invited to Castro’s funeral. I urge you to decline in the strongest terms. Canada must not be seen celebrating the life of a tyrant. The eyes of Canadians are watching you. Will you stand with the millions of oppressed Cubans or side with their oppressor? 

Sincerely, 

Lisa Raitt

Edited November 27, 2016 by Argus

[Icebound]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Or days long past....Castro was Canada's favourite dictator.   I wonder how many Cubans ever made it to Canada ?

about 1000 per year

[poochy]

2 hours ago, Icebound said:

 

However, the question is:  .... what would have been different with Batista?   Do we seriously think that there would have been any less repression?

 

No, that's not the question, it's an utterly ridiculous deflection, if Batista was still around until today and he had continued behaving the way he did would you also be ok with our PM eulogizing that brutal dictator?  Of course not, and let me tell you why, some of you seem to have a sick fascination with communism, a romantic idea that because he was sticking it to the capitalists he was doing good work.  He murdered people to maintain his ideology, what don't you get about that?  Our PM eulogized a communist dictator, who like every other in history, murdered his own people to maintain a broken ideology, and you think there are hairs to be split?  What is wrong with your world view that you think saying, 'but he wasn't Batista' makes our PM completely ignoring his crimes ok?  Might as well have said, well, he wasn't Mao, or Hitler.  Or as our embarassing leader said today, he improved education (he also killed a a lot of his own people who disagreed with him) and health care.

[Icebound]

45 minutes ago, Argus said:

Batista would not have lasted this long. Most of the tinpot dictators in South and Central America have long since given way to democracies or at least semi-democracies.

 

Lisa Rait released this letter today.

Prime Minister Trudeau, 

..snip....

As our Prime Minister, you must retract this statement and apologize immediately. To quote your statement, which Cubans do you feel have a “deep and loving affection” for Castro? .....

Sincerely, 

Lisa Raitt

 

Fidel's and Raoul's popularity ratings among Cubans in Cuba is 47percent, more in Havana, and even more among older people.

What was the popularity rating among Canadians of Lisa's previous Leader?  Was that 32 percent?

Misguided or not, there ARE Cubans who have a "deep and loving affection" for Castro, whatever his faults.

I am also not sure what she is talking about "exporting terror".  Has Cuba really been involved in anything in the last 25 years?  Other than FARC, and based on recent developments, FARC were the good guys.  

Trudeau's statement was actually carefully worded to include only the positive facts, like one might at any funeral..  The closest to "approval" was that "my father was proud to call him friend", which reflects on the father not Justin.

Yes, Lisa, now is the politically correct time to publicly chastise and shun the dead leader of a country which Canada (your previous leader included) is recognizing as a growing economic partner.  

 

[Icebound]

16 minutes ago, poochy said:

No, that's not the question, it's an utterly ridiculous deflection, if Batista was still around until today and he had continued behaving the way he did would you also be ok with our PM eulogizing that brutal dictator?  Of course not, and let me tell you why, some of you seem to have a sick fascination with communism, a romantic idea that because he was sticking it to the capitalists he was doing good work.  He murdered people to maintain his ideology, what don't you get about that?  ....

If Batista had continued behaving the way he did, and the American corporations where making a lot of money, you can be sure that somebody would be eulogizing Batista.

Read the statement carefully.  Like any funeral, only the positive.  Yeah, sure.  I would have been happier with a slightly less fawning tone... but remember that this is politics, too.  You are going to be dealing with his brother for a few years to come.... you don't go bringing up the dead brother's vices at a funeral.

[-1=e^ipi]

The comments by Trudeau... are concerning.

[msj]

20 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

The comments by Trudeau... are concerning.

Already brought up in another thread. 

And likely to be forgotten just like Harper's upon the death of a King of Saudi Arabia in early 2015. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by msj

[Bryan]

5 hours ago, Icebound said:

Misguided or not, there ARE Cubans who have a "deep and loving affection" for Castro, whatever his faults

From what I've seen personally, most people in Cuba truly love(d) the man. Not quite as much as they loved Che, but he's definitely a national hero. 

It really is a eye opener to go to Cuba and see how different things are there compared to what we are told over here. 

[taxme]

14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Castro was the Trudeau family's favourite dictator, and Justin Trudeau has expressed his sincerest condolences.   Castro's Cuba was also a fave for Canadian tourists...a warm place to go on the cheap with few Americans around.  

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fidel-castro-trudeau-condolences-1.3869280

 

It just shows how the tourists who went to Cuba on their holidays gave a thought or cared about freedom. When tourists went to Cuba for a vacation they were giving their money to a dictator who ran torture rooms, secret prisons, death squads, and just plain government tyranny against the people of Cuba. They were propping up a murderer. They didn't have to live there under communism. It was all just about the vacation, and nothing more. So, the people suffered, who cares, They were out of there next week. Sad indeed.  

[Bob Macadoo]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

It just shows how the tourists who went to Cuba on their holidays gave a thought or cared about freedom. When tourists went to Cuba for a vacation they were giving their money to a dictator who ran torture rooms, secret prisons, death squads, and just plain government tyranny against the people of Cuba. They were propping up a murderernecessity didn't have to live ther e under communism. It was all just about the vacation, and nothing more. So, the people suffered, who cares, They were out of there next week. Sad indeed.  

I'm one of those tourists.  I however enter people's homes and broke bread with them.  As been said the "elites" had the problem with the party.  The common citizen whether blinded by propoganda or not appreciated what the gov't was able to accomplish despite US embargo which is what they blamed for their economic situation.  They believed that Castro shielded them from US corruption that would own their country.  The strict resource control was due out of neccesity.....due to limited economic growth.  They believe now with markets opening they can improve.....still maintaing cuban identity and control.

[msj]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

When tourists went to Cuba for a vacation they were giving their money to a dictator who ran torture rooms, secret prisons, death squads, and just plain government tyranny against the people of Cuba. They were propping up a murderer. They didn't have to live there under communism. It was all just about the vacation, and nothing more. So, the people suffered, who cares, They were out of there next week. Sad indeed.  

Sort of like when people fill their tanks with fungible gas they are giving their money to ISIS and Saudi Arabia etc etc. 

So you were just driving to the local beach and were out the next week. Sad! 

[poochy]

Alexandre Trudeau wrote this about the Cuban people ten years ago

“They do occasionally complain, often as an adolescent might complain about a too strict and demanding father.”

 

That's right, the Cuban people are whiners when they complained about living in poverty under an oppressive and murderous regime, and all of the Cubans who fled were actually just members of the alt-right (saw that one in the CBC comments).

What is wrong with this family and the people who defend them, why do they seem to have an affinity for communist dictatorships and the murderers who run them?  It's one thing to acknowledge a mans death, its quite another to gush over him and ignore that he was a communist, a murderer, and a man who had a part in almost starting a nuclear war.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/trudeaus-turn-from-cool-to-laughing-stock/

Edited November 27, 2016 by poochy

[-TSS-]

It seems that your Prime Minister made the statement without consulting his advisors first. He comes across as a kind of guy for whom it is always unwise to make any statements without consulting his advisors first.

[poochy]

15 hours ago, Icebound said:

If Batista had continued behaving the way he did, and the American corporations where making a lot of money, you can be sure that somebody would be eulogizing Batista.

Read the statement carefully.  Like any funeral, only the positive.  Yeah, sure.  I would have been happier with a slightly less fawning tone... but remember that this is politics, too.  You are going to be dealing with his brother for a few years to come.... you don't go bringing up the dead brother's vices at a funeral.

Nah, too late, you're just as bad as Trudeau is and no more adept at covering for it.

[poochy]

7 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

It seems that your Prime Minister made the statement without consulting his advisors first. He comes across as a kind of guy for whom it is always unwise to make any statements without consulting his advisors first.

It's unwise for him to open his mouth, ever.  He isn't intelligent, maybe it's just the average and below that don't see it, plenty of them here.

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, poochy said:

Alexandre Trudeau wrote this about the Cuban people ten years ago

“They do occasionally complain, often as an adolescent might complain about a too strict and demanding father.”

That's a pretty accurate statement.  Considering the crushing economic oppression of the embargo, it's truly amazing what the Castros have been able to do in Cuba. 

[-TSS-]

I just watched the map. I didn't realise before how close Cuba is to Florida. I knew it was close but that close.

If it were as easy to move into the USA as it is to move from Africa into any EU-country there would probably be no-one left in Cuba.