The fentanyl epidemic - what to do?

[SpankyMcFarland]

China is again making encouraging noises on the fentanyl front:

https://www.everydayhealth.com/opioid-addiction/china-commits-greater-regulation-fentanyl-g20-summit/

The next series of Narcos should be based in China. Unlike Escobar and the Rodríguez brothers, these entrepreneurs have nothing to fear from the DEA. 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Some legal progress on the fentanyl front:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/5/3/18528123/insys-fentanyl-trial-verdict-john-kapoor-opioid-epidemic

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Good to see Trump mentioning fentanyl as a major problem with China. 

[Argus]

On 5/3/2019 at 3:37 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Some legal progress on the fentanyl front:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/5/3/18528123/insys-fentanyl-trial-verdict-john-kapoor-opioid-epidemic

 

Big deal. Almost all the fentanyl on our streets comes from China. The Chinese put no restrictions on its creation or export, despite repeated requests from the West. China does nothing that it doesn't see as benefiting it, and it's making money off fentanyl. It could care less how many westerners die. The only way to start to get control of fentanyl is to punish China for its export.

[Guest]

Legalize everything and register addicts.  Control production and distribution and put the Chinese (and everyone else who produces and sells illegal drugs) out of the market.

[SpankyMcFarland]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

Big deal. Almost all the fentanyl on our streets comes from China. The Chinese put no restrictions on its creation or export, despite repeated requests from the West. China does nothing that it doesn't see as benefiting it, and it's making money off fentanyl. It could care less how many westerners die. The only way to start to get control of fentanyl is to punish China for its export.

I imagine addicts (or their bereaved relatives) who first used opioids prescribed by physicians might disagree with you there on the ‘big deal’ aspect. Anyway, as I pointed out above, Trump has mentioned fentanyl as a particular problem between the US and China. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[Argus]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I imagine addicts (or their bereaved relatives) who first used opioids prescribed by physicians might disagree with you there on the ‘big deal’ aspect. Anyway, as I pointed out above, Trump has mentioned fentanyl as a particular problem between the US and China. 

Fentanyl didn't become a huge problem until it was mass-manufactured in Chinese warehouses, which made the price plummet. Now it's being used by drug dealers to cut other drugs to make them more powerful because it's so cheap compared to anything else. And most of it coming to Canada is from China.

[SpankyMcFarland]

15 hours ago, Argus said:

Fentanyl didn't become a huge problem until it was mass-manufactured in Chinese warehouses, which made the price plummet. Now it's being used by drug dealers to cut other drugs to make them more powerful because it's so cheap compared to anything else. And most of it coming to Canada is from China.

Yes, China is a big part of the problem. I don’t know anyone who would argue otherwise.  

Edited August 11, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

This story isn’t a big surprise:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2019-08-30/tyler-skaggs-autopsy-report-fentanyl-oxycodone-alcohol-angels-rusty-hardin

But I still can’t get over the way fentanyl is becoming normalized as a party drug. 

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

But I still can’t get over the way fentanyl is becoming normalized as a party drug. 

Flirting with death for kicks has always been normal but this seems more like flirting with stupidity.

[Michael Hardner]

"For this election, the overdose crisis is a public health emergency of unique significance: over 10,300 Canadians have died of overdose deaths in the last three years, and the numbers show no sign of lessening. "

 

There's no reason we can't talk about multiple topics of course, but how many other things - including white nationalism, terrorism and abortion can be said to have the present impact of these drugs ?  Why don't people prioritize this ?

[OftenWrong]

 

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There's no reason we can't talk about multiple topics of course, but how many other things - including white nationalism, terrorism and abortion can be said to have the present impact of these drugs ?  Why don't people prioritize this ?

Interesting point. Donald Trump seems to be the only one taking a major stand against China, using his trade war to impose China to shut down fentanyl shipments,

Quote

As part of a wide-ranging deal between Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping last December, China had reportedly pledged to designate fentanyl and similar drugs as controlled substances, subjecting those who sell them to harsh punishments and potentially slowing their flow into the U.S.

Trump has since argued that China has not held up its end of the bargain. On Friday, China’s narcotics regulator said the U.S. is politicizing the issue of Chinese fentanyl exports and “up-ending the facts for their own political necessities,” Bloomberg reported.

Amid Trade War, Trump Urges Crackdown on Fentanyl Shipments

 

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Interesting point. Donald Trump seems to be the only one taking a major stand against China, using his trade war to impose China to shut down fentanyl shipments,

Amid Trade War, Trump Urges Crackdown on Fentanyl Shipments

Well good for him.  People need to know about it.

[OftenWrong]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well good for him.  People need to know about it.

Just sayin. Tariffs are being used for more than just making money. However, it has proven ineffective so far, as China are a bunch of bastards. But it seems like no one else is doing much of anything.

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Just sayin. Tariffs are being used for more than just making money. However, it has proven ineffective so far, as China are a bunch of bastards. But it seems like no one else is doing much of anything.

The thing is that any half-sensible message Trump has to deliver on fentanyl and espionage gets lost in his own noise about everything else. 

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The thing is that any half-sensible message Trump has to deliver on fentanyl and espionage gets lost in his own noise about everything else. 

You just need to pay better attention, stay calm and don't react impulsively. Ice in your veins,stay the course. Not easy for liberals to do, I know. It's a conservative thing.

[dialamah]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well good for him.  People need to know about it.

Did you read the article?  His 'action' apparently consists of ordering FedEx  USPS, Amazon and the like to search for and refuse fentanyl. As if USPS et al have not always had a policy of refusing drug shipments, and needed a presidential order to start doing so.  This order was tacked on to his command to US companies to find alternates to China to do business with. 

12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

However, it has proven ineffective so far, as China are a bunch of bastards

Not to mention that Trump has reassigned agents to the border, meaning there are less resources to check for illegal drugs sent through USPS, even though a bipartisan study found that the “preferred method of shipping is the U.S. Postal Service because the risk of seizure by Customs & Border Protection (CPB) is small and delivery is basically guaranteed.” 

This is merely Trump's attempt at "virtue-signalling".

[OftenWrong]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Trump has reassigned agents to the border, meaning there are less resources to check for illegal drugs sent through USPS, even though a bipartisan study found that the “preferred method of shipping is the U.S. Postal Service because the risk of seizure by Customs & Border Protection (CPB) is small and delivery is basically guaranteed.” 

This is merely Trump's attempt at "virtue-signalling".

The way they've attempted to stop the drug from reaching the user so far has not been effective. It needs to be stopped at the source if at all possible. Trump showing how to use economics to stop crime and drugs, the same way it is done with the problem of drugs coming in from Latin America. You have to do both things. Since everyone can generally agree drugs are bad, this is not "virtue signalling". 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

The way they've attempted to stop the drug from reaching the user so far has not been effective. It needs to be stopped at the source if at all possible. 

According to your linked article, it would be more effective to work on reducing the demand.  That would mean spending money to address social issues.  Sadly it's more politically expedient to blame an outside party and the drug addicts themselves than to spend tax money on effective solutions.

Edited September 1, 2019 by dialamah

[SpankyMcFarland]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

You just need to pay better attention, stay calm and don't react impulsively. Ice in your veins,stay the course. Not easy for liberals to do, I know. It's a conservative thing.

Don’t react impulsively...would your friend Trump be a good example of conservative sang froid and measured judgement? 

I support Trump’s words on fentanyl and the Chinese but his response to the opioid crisis in general has been fairly lame, starting with picking Jared (!) as the guy to lead the fight. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Sadly it's more politically expedient to blame an outside party and the drug addicts themselves than to spend tax money on effective solutions.

I don't agree. It makes sense to do all of those things, as much as possible.

[OftenWrong]

11 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Don’t react impulsively...would your friend Trump be a good example of conservative sang droid and measured judgement? 

I support Trump’s words on fentanyl and the Chinese but his response to the opioid crisis in general has been fairly lame, starting with picking Jared (!) as the guy to lead the fight. 

Sorry, I do not consider Mr. Trump a friend of mine. Always considered him the clown option. When he was elected, I had a huge laugh. Don't get me wrong... I understand why he got elected. In fact I predicted it. Since then I've kept my bias as low as reasonably achievable. And given I as a Canadian don't have much "skin" in this game, see no reason to get excited. As long as it doesn't come this way... oh no, Dofo. You people get these people elected, either directly or by complicity in being morons. Therefore you get the government you deserve. But I like to call things on a case-by-case basis. Within itself, not connected to everything and everyone else, as is part of the modern day liberal neuroses. Donald Trump. Get over it

So when Trump does something good, like taking this new approach on fentanyl, let's cheer him on. Stop being a partisan idiot. Not you, SpankyMcFarland. Just sayin

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

So when Trump does something good, like taking this new approach on fentanyl, let's cheer him on. Stop being a partisan idiot. Not you, SpankyMcFarland. Just sayin

On fentanyl and China, I do cheer him on. 

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

On fentanyl and China, I do cheer him on. 

So Tariffs good. Noted.

[SpankyMcFarland]

18 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

So Tariffs good. Noted.

Ah now, I’m a free trader. Tariffs are a blunt instrument.