The fentanyl epidemic - what to do?

Omni · May 1, 2017

16 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Dopers have to dope...pray for the addicts...at their funerals.

Duterte couldn't have said it better. Hey I see he and Trump are buddies now.

Hydraboss · May 1, 2017

On 4/30/2017 at 9:13 AM, eyeball said:

Did you just recently wake up from a time capsule or something?

Pot is absolutely a gateway drug. Not in the physiological sense that used to be the belief, but in the "culture of access" way. I've dealt with so many users professionally that I can't keep count, and those that moved on to meth (back when that was the emerging trend) did so almost exclusively because the harder drugs were at the same location as where the individuals were smoking pot. When one is already baked, it's a lot easier to agree to try "something new". Alcohol never seemed to have the same gateway effect in my experience.

If you're trying to interpret the "pot is a gateway" statement to mean people believe in the content of Reefer Madness, then you're correct that it's not a gateway substance. But to make a blanket statement that pot is completely disassociated from harder drugs would be stupid and intellectually dishonest.

eyeball · May 1, 2017

Pot is no way near the gateway tobacco is.

Judging by the same olde drug war rhetoric you're peddling I'm guessing you crawled out of the same olde time capsule bb did.

Edited May 1, 2017 by eyeball

May 2, 2017

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Pot is no way near the gateway tobacco is.

Judging by the same olde drug war rhetoric you're peddling I'm guessing you crawled out of the same olde time capsule bb did.

Gateway to what? I smoked a pack a day for twenty five years and I never got the urge to try anything else. I don't know about pot.

Wilber · May 2, 2017

12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Gateway to what? I smoked a pack a day for twenty five years and I never got the urge to try anything else. I don't know about pot.

I smoked as well and never had the urge either.

SpankyMcFarland · May 2, 2017

Let's hope the Chinese are serious about this:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/health/fentanyl-china-ban-opioids/index.html

dialamah · May 2, 2017

9 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Let's hope the Chinese are serious about this:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/health/fentanyl-china-ban-opioids/index.html

I think its silly to imagine that this would change much; fentanyl and the other related drugs will just be made elsewhere and imported, or produced in-country. Even without that and as the article says, when one drug is eliminated, another drug will just pop up in its place. Society has to solve social issues to solve drug issues; unfortunately the most successful methods of treating drug addiction are also widely viewed as rewarding to users and don't get much support.

SpankyMcFarland · May 2, 2017

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I think its silly to imagine that this would change much; fentanyl and the other related drugs will just be made elsewhere and imported, or produced in-country. Even without that and as the article says, when one drug is eliminated, another drug will just pop up in its place. Society has to solve social issues to solve drug issues; unfortunately the most successful methods of treating drug addiction are also widely viewed as rewarding to users and don't get much support.

Every little bit helps. Obviously, demand is more important than supply. Production in Canada would at least reduce some of the pressure for ever more potent drugs that can elude customs.

Hydraboss · May 3, 2017

On 5/1/2017 at 2:18 PM, eyeball said:

same olde drug war rhetoric you're peddling

Drug war rhetoric? Are you for real?? The belief that pot somehow "addicted" people and made their bodies crave other drugs has been widely discounted. Smoking as a gateway? Good gawd.

But if you honestly believe that the availability of harder drugs isn't exponentially increased where pot is commonly used, then you are truly delusional. You don't see a lot of alcohol use in elementary school, but you sure do at Octoberfest.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Hydraboss
sp

SpankyMcFarland · May 6, 2017

IMO the decision to replace OxyContin with OxyNeo was a mistake. Now one can see that it created a gap in the market for ultra-powerful opioids like fentanyl.

eyeball · May 6, 2017

On 5/3/2017 at 8:52 AM, Hydraboss said:

Drug war rhetoric? Are you for real?? The belief that pot somehow "addicted" people and made their bodies crave other drugs has been widely discounted. Smoking as a gateway? Good gawd.

But if you honestly believe that the availability of harder drugs isn't exponentially increased where pot is commonly used, then you are truly delusional. You don't see a lot of alcohol use in elementary school, but you sure do at Octoberfest.

All you've done is move the gate.

In any case tobacco is a gate that introduces people to the thrill of illicitness - a thrill that comes in the form of endorphin, a natural opioid produced in our brains. Besides sex and drinking, smoking is probably the biggest line that society draws between kids and adulthood.

Rue · May 11, 2017

On ‎2017‎-‎05‎-‎01 at 1:24 PM, Hydraboss said:

Pot is absolutely a gateway drug. Not in the physiological sense that used to be the belief, but in the "culture of access" way. I've dealt with so many users professionally that I can't keep count, and those that moved on to meth (back when that was the emerging trend) did so almost exclusively because the harder drugs were at the same location as where the individuals were smoking pot. When one is already baked, it's a lot easier to agree to try "something new". Alcohol never seemed to have the same gateway effect in my experience.

If you're trying to interpret the "pot is a gateway" statement to mean people believe in the content of Reefer Madness, then you're correct that it's not a gateway substance. But to make a blanket statement that pot is completely disassociated from harder drugs would be stupid and intellectually dishonest.

I have to 100% agree from my work with troubled families and drug addicts but I don't want to trot out the stats to back you up just say you did an excellent job describing it as a culture of access sense not a drug crave sense.

I will give one example you are well aware of. Cannabis has obtained and rightfully so legitimate status as a painkiller and medicinal alternative to other drugs. We know for example its used for glaucoma, certain kinds of epilepsy that resist medication, people on chemotherapy, people with chronic pain from terminal illnesses. For such people it adds quality of life.

We know however that someone people CALL themselves chronic pain sufferers and they are in fact masking addictive personalities and they'll use anything including marijhuana precriptions to legitimize their addictions to get other drugs. I have seen the connection between OxyContin users and chronic pain dope users. Not all crhonic pain users of dope are legit. Some are drug addicts, period. That's as close as I can explain it.

I am a huge supporter of medicinal marijhuana. However I think because the contents of the THC in it today is far more concentrated and the dope can be laced with all kinds of chemicals saying its harmless is stupid. Its going to increase car accidebts and lung related diseases and with certain manic-depressives, bi-polars, people suffering ceryain kinds of depression, anxiety disorders, ocd, it could trigger very serious issues. It might add complications as well to people with diabetes.

Now if it is eaten or put in vapour form its a lot safer. All that aid there is this cultural idealization that goes with it buts not just some white Rasta wannabees we are talking about today.

That said if its controlled properly its a tax source and one would hope the tax from it can go back into our medical system. Governments beingw hat they are will probably mis-spend it on something else.

cannuck · May 14, 2017

I am not a pothead, rarely use prescription drugs and never OTC, so take this as an observation from arm's length.

From what I have seen, medical marijuana is carefully cultivated and processed to employ very specific varieties and strains containing OTHER active ingredients besides THC, and is seldom prescribed to be smoked. You don't go down to the local head shop and have the stoner behind the counter just stuff some weed into you mit and toke on it.

I will just leave it that I agree strongly with posts from Rue and Hyrdaboss on this subject

eyeball · May 15, 2017

It's all just Reefer Madness redux. Medical marijuana is as much a joke as medical booze.

cannuck · May 24, 2017

On 5/15/2017 at 8:51 AM, eyeball said:

It's all just Reefer Madness redux. Medical marijuana is as much a joke as medical booze.

No, actual medical maryjane is extremely effective in managing certain kinds of pain. It is non-addictive - unlike many options. But, as I mentioned it is NOT BC bud passed over the counter by a pothead, it is very specific cultivars with other active ingredients that INCLUDE THC, but are carefully selected for specific ~~narcotic psy~~ phsychoactive properties. As another poster mentioned, the free-market "Medical Marijuana Clinics" on every street corner are simply pushing drugs for money.

Edited May 24, 2017 by cannuck

eyeball · May 25, 2017

I realize there are legitimate medical uses for pot but the majority of cases appear to be pretty frivolous and the amounts 'prescribed' are often hilarious especially in light of the panic over the potency of today's pot compared to the Black Nepalese, Blond Afghan, Panama Red and Thai Sticks we could get as kids.

SpankyMcFarland · June 16, 2017

Sign of the times. Kids, go easy on the beer, weed...and fentanyl when you are celebrating your upcoming summer hols:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/local+news/doctor+urges+parents+talk+kids+about+opioid+overdoses/13452560/story.html?google_editors_picks=true

SpankyMcFarland · September 6, 2017

We are reaching a point where patients with drug overdoses are too toxic to treat:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-paramedic-drug-exposure-1.4273479

hot enough · September 6, 2017

On 9/17/2016 at 8:09 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

I'm surprised nobody has started a thread on this. Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid that is approximately 80 times more potent than morphine ...

Does Fentanyl have any good use in the medical community/profession?

Omni · September 6, 2017

On 5/24/2017 at 10:46 PM, eyeball said:

I realize there are legitimate medical uses for pot but the majority of cases appear to be pretty frivolous and the amounts 'prescribed' are often hilarious especially in light of the panic over the potency of today's pot compared to the Black Nepalese, Blond Afghan, Panama Red and Thai Sticks we could get as kids.

Yeah shut up and pass the pipe will ya.

SpankyMcFarland · September 7, 2017

19 hours ago, hot enough said:

Does Fentanyl have any good use in the medical community/profession?

Yes, in anesthesia and pain relief. It acts more rapidly than most opioids.

SpankyMcFarland · September 8, 2017

On 2017-09-06 at 4:43 PM, hot enough said:

Does Fentanyl have any good use in the medical community/profession?

One use is for breakthrough pain in cancer patients that can't be controlled with other drugs. Here's an example of a drug rep misrepresenting a patient's problem as just that:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/09/opioid-maker-posed-as-doctors-office-lied-to-push-deadly-opioid-on-patient/

SpankyMcFarland · September 8, 2017

At the risk of stating the obvious, opioids are incredibly addictive. However, I'd say most people don't realize how a few days use can begin to increase the risk of long-term dependence:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/with-a-10-day-supply-of-opioids-1-in-5-become-long-term-users/

The message is clear - if you are young and have useful years left get off them as quickly as possible.

SpankyMcFarland · January 20, 2018

Another fentanyl victim:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/arts/music/tom-petty-cause-death-opioid-overdose.html

Other drugs appear to have been involved as well. Managing pain in a former heroin addict was always going to be tricky.

SpankyMcFarland · November 29, 2018

Here’s something one probably shouldn’t do:

Quote

A former opioid sales executive admitted Wednesday in Boston's federal court to participating in a nationwide conspiracy to bribe doctors to prescribe a highly addictive fentanyl spray for people who didn't need it and will cooperate with prosecutors targeting his co-workers

Alec Burlakoff, 44, pleaded guilty to racketeering conspiracy and is likely to be a witness for the government when billionaire founder John Kapoor and other high-level executives at the Arizona-based Insys Therapeutics go on trial in January.

They're accused of fueling the opioid epidemic by paying kickbacks to doctors willing to write large numbers of prescriptions for the powerful medication Subsys, which is meant for cancer patients with severe pain.

The kickbacks were disguised as speaking fees for events billed as opportunities for other doctors to learn about the drug, prosecutors say. Some doctors were paid more than $200,000, Assistant U.S. Attorney Fred Wyshak said.

http://www.wbur.org/news/2018/11/28/alec-burlakoff-insys-therapeutics-guilty-plea-opioid-kickback-conspiracy