Because it's 2016

[?Impact]

The reason men and women, boys and girls, are segregated in the mosque is not because it's a mosque. They are segregated because according to the koran, and the mosque leadership at this mosque, they must ALWAYS be segregated, lest the women and girls cause lust in the menfolk. It is that ridiculous social convention which is important to push back on.

Please inform the Orthodox Jewish Union that wants a mechitza in the synagogue, the thought process is essentially identical. They adopted/reaffirmed that policy as recent as 2002.

[dialamah]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you who,can post to or not, Just wondering if these people are giving you so much grieve that you have a hard opinion against why bother....Unless what they are posting directly goes against your values and morals....

Defending family is honorable, especially sisters....But we can hardly judge an entire religion on your sisters acts can we....Not sure where your sister lives, but do you think that if she lived in say Iraq, or Syria , or some other hard core Muslim state, they would have the same convictions and believes...

Where do you think people get a capability of barbarism, is it a learned thing, is it one that is embedded and rears it's ugly head only when needed, like a life and death struggle, or survival....I've seen a lot of shitty things over my service career of just how barbaric humans can be, to everything around them....if pressed into things I think everyone is capable of anything, including killing....

I mean all one has to do is read up on some history, it's all there black and white, how could the Nazi's wipe out millions, same for the Russians, same for the romans, etc etc it is though out our history of man....how could that be if we were not capable of barbarism.....

My sister lives in Egypt, and I know that she and her family are not identical to every other Muslim living in Egypt, or anywhere else in the world. Still, I think her family is representative of the diversity that exists within Egypt at least. There are five brothers and sisters-in-law of varying degrees of devoutness, with my sister and her husband being at the most liberal end.

As you say, everyone has the capability of barbarism - doesn't really matter what you think you believe, it's within you. Perhaps this is also why I object so strenuously to the demonization of an entire group of people. Sometimes I think I'm watching history in action: Identify a group; ascribe negative characteristics (backward/barbaric/subhuman) to that group; impose sanctions against the group - either for their own good or to protect "the rest of us" - or ideally, both. Then you can enslave them, or put them on reservations/into residential schools, or inter them or even gas them. Twenty-five or fifty or 100 years later, acknowledge how wrong you were and apologize. It's a repeating cycle and right now it seems that Muslims are the target.

[poochy]

Please inform the Orthodox Jewish Union that wants a mechitza in the synagogue, the thought process is essentially identical. They adopted/reaffirmed that policy as recent as 2002.

Ah, the two wrongs fallacy.

PM claims feminist high ground, condones segregation of women by men and religion, supporters defend by citing other instances where men segregate women.......umm, we know this happens, the point is, (i know, this is REALLY hard to get) we dont want our PM condoning it, or anyone else, but not noticing the ridiculous hypocrisy of someone who at least partially got himself elected for being a feminist and insinuating the last guys were anti women is kind of a big deal.

[dialamah]

Ah, the two wrongs fallacy.

PM claims feminist high ground, condones segregation of women by men and religion, supporters defend by citing other instances where men segregate women.......umm, we know this happens, the point is, (i know, this is REALLY hard to get) we dont want our PM condoning it, or anyone else, but not noticing the ridiculous hypocrisy of someone who at least partially got himself elected for being a feminist and insinuating the last guys were anti women is kind of a big deal.

I think you are confusing being somewhere with condoning all that is happening in that location. For instance, it's well known that illegal drugs are used at concerts. I don't condone illegal drug use just because I attend a concert where it happens.

[Smoke]

No Muslim has ever murdered his kids in Canada due to his/her twisted religion? Well....not true. Muslim kids turn-up at the bottoms of canals for not being Scotsman enough.

Or for a woman talking back to a man. Just ask Noutene Noutene.

[cybercoma]

No Muslim has ever murdered his kids in Canada due to his/her twisted religion? Well....not true. Muslim kids turn-up at the bottoms of canals for not being Scotsman enough.

Far more non-Muslims kill their children in Canada, in spite of religion. But sure. Complain some more about Muslims.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/parents-kill-children-why-1.3555456

There was a case a number of,years back in NB where a father shot his teenaged daughter and her boyfriend in his car in the woods because she went behind his back to date this guy.

But, sure. It wasn't "religiously" motivated so we should just bitch about the evil Muslims, the vast majority of whom would never dream of such a thing. Also, I think you're confused. Most of the "honour" killing stories are about Sikhs.

[Machjo]

Equality is protected under the Constitution. So, unfortunately, is religious freedom.

That said, I find it strange that this is the place where conservatives draw the line when it comes to women's rights. Things like wage parity and even sexual assault aren't a big deal, but this.

You mean fortunately. In France, Turkey, and China where religious freedom is strictly limited, we have terrorism, deadly riots, and attempted coups.

In the UK, where Anglicanism is the state religion and where religious freedom is extremely well protected, you have problems there too, but nothing compared to the other three states.

How do you square that?

[Machjo]

So I thought we could have a thread where liberal supporters twist themselves into knots reconciling the, it's 2016 mantra, while the author of such attends a house of worship where women are segregated, while at the same time explaining how treating women as lesser beings is in fact a Canadian value in 2016. They are Canadians, and your choice of leader just endorsed it, unless of course he criticized them for that policy while he was there. But then he was just showing respect for their beliefs that just happen to show an inherent disrespect for more than half of the population.

Stake the moral high ground as the feminist PM, require gender equal cabinet, supporters, such as they are, laud him for it, then attends segregated mosque. Imagine if Harper had bought a wedding cake from a place that refused to serve homosexuals..., segregate and treat half of the population as lesser humans, and it's no big deal.

Begin

Or don't, it's not possible to square that circle while being honest.

There should be a very obvious difference here. One is state policy, the other is the policy of an NGO.

If an NGO wanted to organize and allow only white people to join, I'd have no problem with that. Though I'm white myself, I'd have no interest in joining it, but that's a personal matter for those who join it.

Should the government adopt a whites-only immigration policy and use my tax dollars to defend it, that's a whole different ballgame.

[Machjo]

Could he not have gone to a Mosque that didn't treat women that way?

The female MPs with him had to use the side door. SO FEMINIST!!!!

Could Harper not have atended a Catholic mass led by a woman?

To be clear, I have no problem with Harper attending a mass led by a man since the Catholic Church is not the Government of Canada and so is free to establish its own rules.

[Machjo]

Then he should have demanded they not have been segregated. Or would that have been intolerant?

Are you suggesting we copy China? In China, no religious community can organize except under the CCP.

[Machjo]

Question for those who oppose Trudeau visiting a mosque on 'feminist' grounds. Should the government pass a law prohibiting a PM from entering any place of worship that discriminates between men and women in any way?

[DogOnPorch]

Question for those who oppose Trudeau visiting a mosque on 'feminist' grounds. Should the government pass a law prohibiting a PM from entering any place of worship that discriminates between men and women in any way?

He shouldn't need a law.

[kimmy]

Question for those who oppose Trudeau visiting a mosque on 'feminist' grounds. Should the government pass a law prohibiting a PM from entering any place of worship that discriminates between men and women in any way?

He can go wherever he wishes, and people will draw their own conclusions from the choices he makes.

-k

[kimmy]

Please inform the Orthodox Jewish Union that wants a mechitza in the synagogue, the thought process is essentially identical. They adopted/reaffirmed that policy as recent as 2002.

Has a Prime Minister visited a synagogue with a mechitza to tell them what a great job they're doing?

-k

[DogOnPorch]

He can go wherever he wishes, and people will draw their own conclusions from the choices he makes.

-k

Indeed. It's not that a fellow like me opposes such a visit...it's that he had the diminished brain capacity to do it in the first place.

Our leader...eh?

[kimmy]

He went to a mosque that many other Liberal politicians have gone to and spoken at - including women.

Including a homosexual woman at that.

Is it especially praiseworthy that they make exception to their policy for women of prominence?

If the imam says "normally we would not allow a female and sodomite such as Ms Wynne to speak in our mosque, but since she is the Premier we make an exception" ... is that much different from when Hootie Johnson says "normally we would not allow a Negro of mixed race such as Mr Woods to play here at the Augusta Golf and Country Club, but since he is the Champeen, we make an exception" ?

-k

[Smallc]

If the imam says

But one didn't as far as I'm aware, so you're simply making things up to fit your agenda.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Smallc

[dialamah]

Is it especially praiseworthy that they make exception to their policy for women of prominence?

If the imam says "normally we would not allow a female and sodomite such as Ms Wynne to speak in our mosque, but since she is the Premier we make an exception" ...

-k

Is that was this Imam has done, though? At the beginning of this thread, accusations were made against the Mosque that proved to be unfounded. Is this another one of those claims?

[GostHacked]

It's not Islam you need to fear, it is weak governmental leadership that puts us in more risk of things like Sharia Law. Let's say JT supports Sharia Law, we would be kicking him out of government faster than Brazeau.

[GostHacked]

Indeed. It's not that a fellow like me opposes such a visit...it's that he had the diminished brain capacity to do it in the first place.

Our leader...eh?I

Would it be safe to say you don't visit any religious site like a mosque, church, synagogue ect?? I mean we've heard several times you stating you are an atheist, but sometimes I question that based on what you post.

[kimmy]

But one didn't as far as I'm aware, so you're simply making things up to fit your agenda.

What inference can be drawn, other than that they have made an exception to their policies to accommodate women like Premier Wynne and the MP who has spoken there?

Is that was this Imam has done, though? At the beginning of this thread, accusations were made against the Mosque that proved to be unfounded. Is this another one of those claims?

I gather that there have been false claims made about the mosque, but the issue of gender segregation is not one of them.

-k

[overthere]

What inference can be drawn, other than that they have made an exception to their policies to accommodate women like Premier Wynne and the MP who has spoken there?

I gather that there have been false claims made about the mosque, but the issue of gender segregation is not one of them.

-k

Inference? The one that I draw is that fundamental mosques are not led by stupid people. Neither are political parties. The Imams know that their image does not sell well to the average Canadian, and pretending to reside in this millenium briefly, by allowing Wynne to appear, does plenty for their image. And they would of course think Trudeau is a minion of Satan as well, but he helps brighten a brutally tarnished(and deserved) image of gender oppression. The Imams have zero interest in Diversity, which is a relentless Trudeau meme. The basis of their message is compl;ete conformity and adherence to their version of Islam, diversity is not their friend in any way.

And what does Trudeau get? Votes and air time. I understand how he gets votes from the congregation at the mosque as simple payback for enabling their public relations undertaking, but who actually loathe the message he delivers. I don't get how he gets votes from people who should know better, who should recognize this charade as political theater.

[Machjo]

To be clear, Islam does not prohibit homosexuality, It prohibits homosexual acts. In the same way, it does not prohibit heterosexuality. It prohibits fornication.

And a point about Shari'a. Koran 4:3 and Koran 4:129 when read together enjoin monogamy. Turkey is the first majority-Muslim state to enjoin monogamy, but it did so on the basis of a secular legal code. However, Tunisia is the first to enjoin monogamy in a religious legal code. Due to a conflict between Islam and many traditional ethnic traditions in Muslim states, some Muslim states have downplayed the importance of Koran 4:129. But even those states that do not prohibit polygamy still discourage it. In Malaysia, one must obtain permission from a judge to take a second wife. If he marries outside of the country to skip that process, he pays an exorbitant fine to the state. In Iran, though the state does not enforce Koran 4:129, it allows the woman herself to enforce it by including a monogamy-clause in the marriage contract along with pentalties for violating it, which can include the right to divorce her husband and material compensation.

The Iranian model is the most common one in Muslim states, except that women in many such states are unaware of their legal right to include a monogamy-clause in their marriage contract. Some in those states have suggested that the marriage registrar be reuired to present a standard contract with a monogamy-clause by default with the bride-to-be being free to strike it out at her discression.

In the end though, you will not find one single Muslim state that encourages polygamy, and those that strictly apply Shari'a such as Tunisia enjoin monogamy. Since the Koran promotes family unity and discourages divorce, Tunisia still recognizes polygamous marriages contracted abroad but also enforces monogamy-clauses in marriage contracts with the first spouse, which could permit her to divorce her husband and receive financial compensation for his having violated the contract.

I don't profess Islam myself, but just pointing this out to show how ignorant people are of Shari'a.

I see flaws in Shari'a myself, but again, its interpretation varies from state to state and many Mulim states do not follow strict Shari'a but rather an admixture of Shari'a along with local ethnic traditions such as polygamy.

[Smallc]

What inference can be drawn, other than that they have made an exception to their policies to accommodate women like Premier Wynne and the MP who has spoken there?

I gather that there have been false claims made about the mosque, but the issue of gender segregation is not one of them.

That claim is, in fact, also false. The women are only segregated during prayer.

[Smallc]

Inference? The one that I draw is that fundamental mosques are not led by stupid people. Neither are political parties. The Imams know that their image does not sell well to the average Canadian, and pretending to reside in this millenium briefly, by allowing Wynne to appear, does plenty for their image. And they would of course think Trudeau is a minion of Satan as well, but he helps brighten a brutally tarnished(and deserved) image of gender oppression. The Imams have zero interest in Diversity, which is a relentless Trudeau meme. The basis of their message is compl;ete conformity and adherence to their version of Islam, diversity is not their friend in any way.

Yes, I'm sure fundamental Islam is Trudeau's fault somehow.