Should Canada screen potential immigrants/refugees for Canadian Values

[bush_cheney2004]

Objectively, what is being proposed is a screening process for "Canadian values", which only translates to a preference for well established Canadian biases, cultural norms, religions, official languages, discrimination, sanitized "multiculturalism, other longstanding domestic policies, interventionist foreign policies, etc. So immigrants would just be screened to successfully join the Canadian "gang", not necessarily a better gang.

[Machjo]

You can if he's Somalian.

Somalians profess every religion. Even in Iran, the second-largest religion is Baha'i, and there are Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians too along with Sunni Muslims. And I bet there's the odd secret atheist to boot.

[dialamah]

And this discussion is expanding to focus on crime, which makes the link above a good reference point for anybody interested in identifying factors in criminals.

Still related to Canadian values, IMO.

I did read the link, and it seems there are ways of physically identifying people who may be more criminally adept or inclined, so to speak. I'm pretty sure that even non-criminal people can exhibit similar physical traits, though, so even that would be an imperfect measure.

It seems it may or may not be true that religious faith decreases the likelihood of criminal behavior. To me, it makes sense that a more religious person is less likely to engage in criminal behavior, because all religions preach non-violence; only the fringe elements include violence as part of their doctrine, whether that violence is directed toward outsiders (ISIS, the Lord's Army) or themselves (David Koresh, Heavens Gate). But hey, who am I to argue scientific studies?

The section on 'early life' is interesting. People subjected to traumatic events early in life appear more likely to engage in criminal behavior later on. If people are fleeing wars or very violent areas with their children, perhaps that explains why it seems so many young second generation immigrant males end up in street gangs? That, combined with high testosterone, might play a significant role.

While we may be able to devise a reasonably fair and effective system to screen out potential criminals from immigrating or finding asylum in Canada, would that mean we'd just be putting off the problem to another generation? Would it be reasonable or appropriate to test or assess kids for the 'risk factors' and take steps to eliminate or mitigate the threat? But then, multi-generation Canadians also commit crimes, so if we could devise these tests, wouldn't it be reasonable to apply them to everyone?

[Argus]

Objectively, what is being proposed is a screening process for "Canadian values", which only translates to a preference for well established Canadian biases, cultural norms, religions, official languages, discrimination, sanitized "multiculturalism, other longstanding domestic policies, interventionist foreign policies, etc. So immigrants would just be screened to successfully join the Canadian "gang", not necessarily a better gang.

That would be more of a cogent objection if you weren't a rabid Trump supporter. As is I take it as just another of your sneering put-downs of Canada and Canadians.

[Argus]

Somalians profess every religion.

If they want to survive they better not profess it very damned loudly.

There under 1000 Christians in Somalia, and a few tribal faiths. The country is an Islamic state. Period.

[Machjo]

If they want to survive they better not profess it very damned loudly.

There under 1000 Christians in Somalia, and a few tribal faiths. The country is an Islamic state. Period.

You're confusing personal religion with state religion. The Baha'i Faith is the second largest religion in Iran and the most oppressed. Does the fact that Iran is an Islamic state and that the Baha'i Faith is the most oppressed religion in Iran change the fact that the Baha'is Faith is the second largest religion in Iran?

[Argus]

...and the question of economic potential has also been brought up.

I'm hoping that the discussion can include methods and factors as well.

Thanks, everyone.

I would suggest if personality testing didn't work, employers wouldn't pay for it.

After crunching the numbers, Sackett and Walmsley found that conscientiousness–which involves being dependable, persevering, and orderly–was by far the most highly sought after personality attribute for job applicants. Agreeableness–being cooperative, flexible and tolerant–was the second most prized personality trait.

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/minds-business/which-personality-traits-are-most-important-to-employers.html

[cybercoma]

Actually that shows the victims were Muslim.

Out of the 11 almost have, resulted in no arrests. And out of the few named, not all attackers were Muslim. And a few were botched drug deals. I would also like to see your stats on Ottawa drugs being managed by Lebanese/Somalia gangs.

One of the largest drug-running organizations in Canada is the Hell's Angels but we rarely hear Argus complaining about white crime, so you wouldn't know it.

[bush_cheney2004]

That would be more of a cogent objection if you weren't a rabid Trump supporter. As is I take it as just another of your sneering put-downs of Canada and Canadians.

I am a free speech/expression supporter...some Canadians proposed banning Trump from Canada. Another Canadian value ? Watch out immigrants !

[Argus]

You're confusing personal religion with state religion. The Baha'i Faith is the second largest religion in Iran and the most oppressed. Does the fact that Iran is an Islamic state and that the Baha'i Faith is the most oppressed religion in Iran change the fact that the Baha'is Faith is the second largest religion in Iran?

So what kind of numbers are we talking about?

According to the CIA World Factbook, around 90–95%[1] of Iranians associate themselves with the Shi'a branch of Islam, the official state religion, and about 5–10% with the Sunni and Sufi branches of Islam. The remaining 0.6% associate themselves with non-Islamic religious minorities, including Bahá'ís, Mandeans, Yarsanis, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran

[cybercoma]

...and the question of economic potential has also been brought up.

I'm hoping that the discussion can include methods and factors as well.

Thanks, everyone.

The people discussing this could start by learning the actual immigration system and how it works, rather than how loud-mouthed alt-right bloggers claim the system works.

[bush_cheney2004]

I would suggest if personality testing didn't work, employers wouldn't pay for it.

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/minds-business/which-personality-traits-are-most-important-to-employers.html

Yet another American dataset and analysis...not necessarily applicable to this Canadian immigration topic.

[Machjo]

So what kind of numbers are we talking about?

According to the CIA World Factbook, around 90–95%[1] of Iranians associate themselves with the Shi'a branch of Islam, the official state religion, and about 5–10% with the Sunni and Sufi branches of Islam. The remaining 0.6% associate themselves with non-Islamic religious minorities, including Bahá'ís, Mandeans, Yarsanis, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran

It's still the second-largest after Islam and the most oppressed.

[Argus]

Yet another American dataset and analysis...not necessarily applicable to this Canadian immigration topic.

Yes, something American! I think you do a happy dance every time you spot one!

Edited September 5, 2016 by Argus

[marcus]

I'm with you there. Not sure how much we can trust the UN in this regard.

Canada doesn't accept refugees or immigrants on another bodies' 'vetting'. Canada does its own security and background check on all potential immigrants.

[Peter F]

So here is what I've gathered up on Ottawa's 11 homicides so far this year. It appears I was wrong. Only 10 of 11 had Muslim involvement.

Jan. 10: Mohamed Najdi, 28, on Claremont Drive in Manor Park. Six men have been charged with first-degree murder. All Muslims

Jan. 31: Marwan Arab, 20, shot to death at the Shifa Restaurant on Cobden Road in Pinecrest. No arrests have been made.

Feb. 22: Mohamed Ali Hassan, 19, stabbed 18 times near Lawson Park in Overbrook. Michael Leblanc, 26, charged with second-degree murder.

This was a drug deal that went wrong.

Feb. 24: Taylor Morrow-Flint, 20, shot in apartment on Ritchie Street in Britannia. No arrests.

March 8: Nooredin Hassan, 20, shot in front of school on Jasmine Crescent. No arrests.

March 27: Christina Voelzing, 24, shot at her home on Sonnet Crescent. Behnam Yaali, 23, charged with with second-degree murder.

May 2: Lonnie Leafloor, 56, stabbed in Lepage Avenue apartment. No arrests.

This was in a housing project and involved drugs. No absolute guarantee of Muslim involvement but given the Somalia/Lebanese control almost the whole of Ottawa's drug trade it's pretty close.

Tarique Leger, drug dealer. Tarique is a Muslim name.

Jeremy Spafford’ killed in a crack house, was in the witness protection program after testifying against Muslims in an arson case

Omar Rashid-Ghader, 33, suspect wanted,Mustafa Ahmed, 28,

So you have nothing to say they were muslims. You have nothing to say that the crimes were committed because they were muslims. In fact you have sweet dick-all.

[Argus]

So you have nothing to say they were muslims. You have nothing to say that the crimes were committed because they were muslims. In fact you have sweet dick-all.

Well, a thinking person might wonder why, given their comparatively low numbers, Muslims are involved in virtually every murder in Ottawa.

[Smallc]

Well, a thinking person might wonder why, given their comparatively low numbers, Muslims are involved in virtually every murder in Ottawa.

A thinking person might have been able to substantiate their false claim, too.

[Argus]

A thinking person might have been able to substantiate their false claim, too.

It wasn't a false claim. I think any neutral person would admit that I was pretty on-the-money except for one murder.

[Smallc]

It wasn't a false claim. I think any neutral person would admit that I was pretty on-the-money except for one murder.

Being the victim of a murderer is hardly an indictment of an entire group of people.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Smallc

[dialamah]

Being the victim of a murderer is hardly of indictment of an entire group of people.

Unless they're Muslim.

[The_Squid]

So if Muslims were the victims of the KKK, Argus would blame Muslims... Brilliant...

[SpankyMcFarland]

https://ipolitics.ca/2016/09/02/chong-accuses-leitch-of-dog-whistle-politics/

I can't see Leitch ever becoming PM and find her an odd match for politics. She's a talented person but charisma is not her strong point.

[cybercoma]

So if Muslims were the victims of the KKK, Argus would blame Muslims... Brilliant...

The wheels have completely come off the bus now.

[Argus]

Being the victim of a murderer is hardly an indictment of an entire group of people.

It is if you were a drug dealer. Look, the only reason this arose was you mentioning gang shootings in response to Hal talking about possible terrorism - as if it were an unrelated issue we just deal with. I was just pointing out it isn't unrelated. All street gangs other than the natives ones are the result of poor immigration policy. Anyone looking at that list would have to be puzzled why there was such a preponderance of Muslims given their comparatively small numbers in the Ottawa area.

Anyone honest, that is.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Argus