The Origins of the conflict against the Jews of Israel

[DogOnPorch]

There was no response to the fact that 8% of Palestine were Jewish before the mass Zionist immigration. Imagine if the original Zionists had accepted to move to Kenya instead. Possible conflict to the tune of what happened in South Africa, but I doubt it could have created as much conflict as the decision to move the mostly European Jews to Palestine.

Why would Jews want to create Israel anywhere other than the ancient homeland of their faith? They bought the land fair n' square.

[GostHacked]

Why would Jews want to create Israel anywhere other than the ancient homeland of their faith? They bought the land fair n' square.

I think Dre or Eyeball said it. They bought the deed for the nation, but from who?

[eyeball]

Thieves.

[DogOnPorch]

I think Dre or Eyeball said it. They bought the deed for the nation, but from who?

The owner.

[DogOnPorch]

Thieves.

Enjoy your home and native land...

Edited September 10, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

I do and even more so now that treaties have been signed in the native territory I live in.

[bush_cheney2004]

I do and even more so now that treaties have been signed in the native territory I live in.

I don't think the occupiers were going to leave the "native territory" either way.

[Rue]

I do and even more so now that treaties have been signed in the native territory I live in.

..and broken but hey you a thief. Nah. How long you gonna run with this Bawana superior white man talking down to Jewish savages shtick. Its a joke.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

Enjoy your home and native land...

He's superior to savage Jews you know because Lord his God knows he has nothing but moral purity and righteousness in his family history. Lol.

The need to call Jews thieves, its never far from these anti semites. The need to put down Jews as evil, its so entrenched its never going to wash out.

[marcus]

The need to call Jews thieves, its never far from these anti semites.

There you go again. Trying to shut down criticism with the anti-semite card.

Jews do not have a monopoly on thievery. This isn't a "Jew" problem. It's a problem with people who think it's still okay and acceptable to forcefully remove people from their land based on their religion and background.

Edited September 11, 2016 by marcus

[DogOnPorch]

There you go again. Trying to shut down criticism with the anti-semite card.

Jews do not have a monopoly on thievery. This isn't a "Jew" problem. It's a problem with people who think it's still and acceptable to forcefully remove people from their land based on their religion and background.

Do you deny this happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

Stole their land and property in most cases.

Meanwhile, can you provide an example of Jews actually stealing land from Arabs for us to study? That might be helpful for your case. It's an easy thing to say...like eyeball did...calling Jews thieves. But let's see something concrete.

[Rue]

There was no response to the fact that 8% of Palestine were Jewish before the mass Zionist immigration. Imagine if the original Zionists had accepted to move to Kenya instead. Possible conflict to the tune of what happened in South Africa, but I doubt it could have created as much conflict as the decision to move the mostly European Jews to Palestine.

Actually there was.

Your decision to snapshot history and choose one date to assign a population level to Jews in Palestine is just that.

More to the point it works on the myth and assumption that Jews are not Palestinian but non Jewish Muslims are.

In fact there were Jews, Muslims and Christians who lived in Palestine and have always lived in Palestine. They were

never Palestinian. Palestine was a geographic name not a name of a country. There was no Palestinian nationality and they never referred themselves as Palestinian.

As the following source says:

http://acdemocracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/709.jpg

"Palestinian,’ is a modern British political creation, without any historic or ethnic or cultural grounds. The British could have chosen other neutral names for the territory, such as ‘The Holy Land’. They could have also chosen the name Jupiter… Had they done so, would we now be hearing of a Jupiterian Arab people fighting to liberate its Jupiterian Arab land? ‘Palestinian,’ is a modern political creation, without any historic or ethnic or cultural grounds....

The myth of “Palestine” as a national entity was concocted in 1948. Historically, until the first third of the 20th century, the population living in this territory was regarded both by outsider and the Arabs and their leaders as the southern part of Syrian territory, without any distinct political identity.

The Palestinians, especially under the leadership of Yasser Arafat, mastered the fabrication of “facts” to serve their political agenda. Their credo is to tell big lies and repeat them often until they are accepted as the truth. Through their masterful use of propaganda, indoctrination and socialization tactics domestically and internationally they managed to fabricate a ‘legitimate’ history and distinguished political tradition, much like today’s cyber hackers who steal while denying Israel’s heritage, history and values, thus denying its legitimate claims to the territory as a people and as a state and de-humanizing its identity."

and as this article says:

"Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”

“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.

“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

This declaration by a true "Palestinian" should have some significance for a sincerely neutral observer. Indeed, there is no such a thing like a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage. The present-day "Palestinians" are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. They have their own Arab states from where they came into the Land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth. They were Jordanians (another recent British invention, as there has never been any people known as "Jordanians"), and after the Six-Day War in which Israel utterly defeated the coalition of nine Arab states and took legitimate possession of Judea and Samaria, the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians - something they did not know the day before. "

and from this source:http://www.imninalu.net/myths-pals.htm,

the article points out and you can find of similar comments from Arabs who stated:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".

- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".

- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:

"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

Arafat only created the word to apply to himself and his followers once he could not seize Jordan in the Black Sabbath uprising of 1967.

Palestinian my ass. What there were, were in fact, stateless Jews. Muslims and Christians who existed in the geographic area called Palestine which is today Southern Syria, Israel, Jordan and the West Bank.

As for the myth of Palestinian the lie is that only Jews came from outside Palestine so anyone who calls himself a Muslim or an Arab who lives on the West Bank or Gaza is according to the Palesinian Authority et al, an indigenous Palestinian. Bull crap. They are Muslims who moved to the area today called the West Bank, Israel and Jordan from outside the area no different than Jews.

There were no so called modern day Palestinians until Arafat created them in 1967.

Before that there were Muslims.

The term Palestinian people wasn't even created by Arabs or Muslims:

"It all started with the creation of a fictitious "Palestinian People" who allegedly demand political self determination. This collective noun was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the Palestinian Liberation Organization, the "PLO". The term "Palestinian People" as a descriptive of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB.

Why in Moscow? The 1960s and 1970s were the years the Soviets were in the business of creating "liberation organizations": for Palestine and Bolivia in 1964, Columbia 1965, in the 70s "The Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia" that bombed US airline offices in Europe, and "The Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine that bombed Israelis." But the PLO, was by far its most enduring success."

source:http://www.think-israel.org/brand.russiatheenemy.html

This article exposes the myth of the notion of a Palestinian people:

(source: http://www.meforum.org/3273/palestinian-founding-national-myths)

Rewriting the history of the Land of Israel by erasing Jewish history and replacing it with a fabricated Palestinian history is a central goal of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and something that the early generations of Palestinian leaders, including the notorious Hajj Amin Husseini, who led the Palestinian Arabs to their 1948 defeat, dared not do. This fictitious history, which ignores all historical documentation and established historical methods, is based on systematic distortions of both ancient and modern history with the aim of denying Israel's right to exist.

The Palestinian leaders claim lineage from ancient history, describing the Canaanites as their direct ancestors.[1] In the words of the PA president Mahmoud Abbas: "We said to him [Netanyahu], when he claimed the Jews have a historical right dating back to 3000 years B.C.E., we say that the nation of Palestine upon the land of Canaan had a 7,000-year history. This is the truth that must be said: Netanyahu, you are incidental in history. We are the people of history. We are the owners of history."[2]

According to Palestinian Authority historians, the Palestinian people has been living in Palestine for over seven thousand years.[3] Another claim states that Palestinians were in the land since the beginning of creation.[4] According to Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, chairman of the Supreme Islamic Council of the Palestinian Authority, Palestinians have roots in this land originating from earlier than 7500 B.C.E.[5] Arab villages have allegedly existed since the days of the Canaanites.[6] The "Arab" Canaanites supposedly established ports on the coast of Canaan, known today as Palestine, and Jaffa is said to have been one of the cities whose Canaanite origins later invaders failed to erase.[7] Overall, the Palestinian people claim to be rooted in the region for thousands of years and long before Israel.[8]

According to this argument, some 6,000 years ago, the Palestinians of Canaan created a great civilization that, like the sun, was producing light and shining it on human beings as the Islamic religious basis of the world.[9] Palestinian scholars and media have touted the claim that the Palestinian Arab nation has been rooted in its land for thousands of years since the human settlement of the "Arab-Palestinian-Canaanite" city of Jericho—the oldest city in the history of human civilization. In their claim, the history and heritage of Jericho confirm the Arab-Palestinian-Canaanite narrative concerning the entire

Palestinian land, from the sea to the river, and negate the false Zionist narrative. Jericho allegedly proves that the Palestinian nation is the most ancient and earliest of all, whose roots are the most deeply dug into history.[10]

Palestinians also declared themselves to have been the center of historical events and peoples found in the Bible in the form of the Edomites, Amorites, Midianites, Amalekites, Ibrahim bin Azar (biblical Abraham), and al-Khadir (Prophet Elijah).[11] In the view of the Palestinian ambassador to India, Adli Sadeq, to ignore the existence of the Palestinian people and its rights reflects a logic that mocks intelligence, culture, and the Bible itself, in which Palestine and its people are mentioned more than 250 times.[12] Of course, the term Palestine appears nowhere in the Bible. The assertion that the Palestinians are descended from the biblical Jebusites, who, according to the Bible, were the original inhabitants of Jerusalem, has also been frequently made.[13]

To claim that Palestinians are the original inhabitants of the Land of Israel not only goes against secular history and scientific knowledge, but it also flies in the face of Islamic religious history. Not only do the Islamic scriptures recognize the unique Jewish claims to the Land of Israel, but there is no reference whatsoever to any Palestinian people dwelling on any land called Filastin during any part of Islamic history until the twentieth century. The term Jund Filastin was used to describe a military district of the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates and had no ethnic or national significance until the twentieth century."

So just who are the people who today call themselves Palestinian? The article answers that and states:

"Though Palestinians claim descent from Canaanites, the fact is that there has never been any historical Palestinian state, nor any indigenous political system and institutions. The Land of Israel witnessed many conquerors over the course of its history, but in the last two thousand years since most of the people of Israel went into exile—albeit not without leaving an uninterrupted presence in the land—it was not the home of any indigenous political entity. Not only has there never been a Palestinian state and a Palestinian people, but there were no other political entities besides those established by invading forces, such as the crusading statelets or district capitals created by Umayyad and Abbasid caliphs.

Most of the population now known as Palestinian descended from migrants originating from the surrounding Arab countries and from local Bedouins. Many migrated in waves from the middle of the nineteenth century to the middle of the twentieth century. Others were imported by the Ottoman Empire and by the British for infrastructure and agricultural projects, or migrated to the region following Zionist economic success, which produced a staggering population growth.[41] Palestinians are perhaps the newest of all peoples, comprising many scattered groups. In fact, in origin they are more Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese, and mainly Bedouin, than Palestinian.

Perhaps the most conspicuous fact regarding the novelty of the Palestinian nation is that when it was within their power, the Arab leaders never seriously sought to create a Palestinian state during the 1940s, and after the establishment of the State of Israel, from 1948 until 1967, when the West Bank and Gaza were under Egyptian and Jordanian direct rule. Moreover, during that time all Arab leaders referred to the Palestinian issue as a refugee problem. They did not call for the creation of a Palestinian state for the Palestinian nation. Even after the 1967 Six-Day War, United Nations Resolution 242 of November 22, 1967, mentions only "refugees," not even "Arab refugees"—let alone a Palestinian people and a Palestinian state.[42] Calls in earnest for a Palestinian state did not begin in the United Nations or elsewhere until the late 1960s or the early 1970s.[43]"

Palestinian Arabs, as opposed to Arabic-speaking residents, in fact were not even in the area west of the Jordan River from the Islamic occupation, from the Ottoman Empire, or even from British rule since 1917.

No Palestinian state has ever existed except for the illegally created state of Jordan..

There is no language or dialect known as Palestinian.

There is no Palestinian culture distinct from that of surrounding Arab ones.

There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians at any time in history.

So enough with this fabricate drivel that Palestinians existed as a majority and that meant any non Jew.

That said, the people who do live on the West Bank today and since 1967 and in Gaza are stateless people. They have a right to call themselves Palestinians and yes they have a a right to a state. It would be a second Muslim state in the area known as Palestine other than Jordan.

Israel and Jordan are states made out of the geographic area known as Palestine. The West Bank has always been a disputed area of land but whose people today want their own country. The problem is not that they just want a country on the West Bank but they demand their country consist of both Jordan and Israel as well and as their charters say, a MUSLIM state.

This bull crap we see on this forum over and over suggesting settlement on the West Bank by Israelis is the only issue is a lie.

It is an issue yes. It is an impediment to peace yes, but to pretend its the only issue is crap. The impediment is Palestinian terrorism fueled by Muslim extremist which feeds on the notion that a Muslim state has to be created out of Israel, Jordan and the West Bank as well as Gaza. Palestinians could have had a second state in 1948. They were offered this by Israel in 3 attempts to create peace accords to create a Palestinian state but it was Arafat who told the world, never would he accept anything but all of Israel and Jordan in his state and this is parroted by Abbas and the PA, Hamas and all the other Arab terror cells and to this day most Arab League nations have not removed their declaration of war against Israel. Even Egypt and Jordan will not recognize Israel as a Jewish state preferring to engage in a fictitious relationship which avoids mentioning them as a Jewish state or exchanging a full ambassador.

Then the UN not the Arab League has paid to feed and house these people and their descendants to this day. The definition of refugee was changed for these people unlike any other people in the world to include their descendants as refugees. No other refugee people in the world has the right to call their descendants refugees as well, just the mythical Palestinian.

The West Bank? Go look. The land that was on title to supposed Palestinians was squatted on and stolen from them by non Palestinian Arabs. What a joke. That's why Arafat blew up the Land Titles office. His lie was a joke. He pretended Palestinians were the people who stole from Palestinians.

The West Bank today is made up of more non Palestinian Muslims than Palestinian ones. They came to the West Bank because of the ease of getting in and stealing land. The joke is that more so called Palestinians have "stolen" land from each other then any alleged Jew.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

And let's not be coy about it's the Israelis...not Jews...thing.

A large percentage of Israel's population comes from what we call 'the Muslim World'.

[DogOnPorch]

Alexander finished off the last remnants of the Philistines in 332 BC.

[DogOnPorch]

Rue: you might enjoy this...but it'll take a tiny bit of listening.

https://archive.org/details/stan_freberg_show

Listen to the track labeled "Musical Sheep"...the later half is the significant bit: Incident At Los Varoses (from 1957)

It gives a bit of scope re: how long this has been going on for in modern times...

Edited September 10, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Rue]

Thanks Dawg.

[DogOnPorch]

Thanks Dawg.

No problem. The Freberg Show was very controversial for the day...and funny of course.

[eyeball]

There you go again. Trying to shut down criticism with the anti-semite card.

Jews do not have a monopoly on thievery. This isn't a "Jew" problem. It's a problem with people who think it's still and acceptable to forcefully remove people from their land based on their religion and background.

I was actually referring to the British Empire. I'm probably even worse than an anti-Semite for criticizing it.

I suspect people in the know in the good ol' Empire probably now realize just how unacceptable it was but they did have a monopoly to maintain so... you know how virtues and such seem go in times of real need.

[jacee]

I don't think the occupiers were going to leave the "native territory" either way.

That's not what it's about.

We occupier/settlers have treaties to be here.

Now they are beginning to be respected.

.

[dre]

Ah there we go then. There was no conflict between Jews and Muslims over land prior to the Ottoman Empire. Dre says so.

Dre proclaims this with zero proof but heythere it is zowee, Dre said so.

Dre's attempt to snapshot history and delete the origins of the conflict in Islam that holds Jews can not own land and therefore have a state

speaks directly to the exact fallacy this thread addressed directly and of course Dre has no idea how to debate let alone repudiate so he just pretends the history of conflict never existed.

Pathetic but to be expected.

Its just a garden variety spat over land and resources, with a side of religious idiocy.

It originated during the Ottoman era in the 1880's when Jewish immigration started to increase. Between then and the start of WW1 the Jewish population increased and tensions between Arabs and Jews increased along with it. The Russians thought that Jews had assassinated Alexander the 2nd, and started pogroms, most notably in Kiev. This caused a lot of Russian Jews to leave for the United States, and Palestine, and it also increased the urgency of jews to create their own state. This increased tensions even more, and stoked the fires of both Zionism and Arab Nationalism. The British at that point realized what a bunch of retarded zealots they were dealing with and moved to extricate themselves from the situation.

Throw religion into the mix just to make things worse and there you have it. Conflict: Dirtfarm Holy Land. Two gangs of retarded zealots who's idiocy is an embarrassment to the human race that we will never be free of.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's not what it's about.

We occupier/settlers have treaties to be here.

Now they are beginning to be respected.

.

No...this is not always the case, and the point of many unsettled land claims in Canada. Respected my ass....Israel should not be held to a different standard.

Edited September 14, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

What matters is that the process of moving towards settling treaties is well underway and has been for some time now.

Israel is clearly bent on going in the opposite direction.

[bush_cheney2004]

What matters is that the process of moving towards settling treaties is well underway and has been for some time now.

Israel is clearly bent on going in the opposite direction.

Oh sure....should only take another couple hundred years. What's the hurry, right ?

[eyeball]

Beats me.

Pass the popcorn.

[bush_cheney2004]

Beats me.

Pass the popcorn.

Israel just wants the same deal that Canada has.