The Origins of the conflict against the Jews of Israel

[DogOnPorch]

Yes. Now as for the concept of dhimmitude and Jews not being allowed to own land or have a state, that seems to be a conclusion derived at by those after he's dead interpreting his alleged writings, essays, speeches and writing them down into what turns into the Koran.

They are a concept of the inferior non Muslim that to this date continues in mainstream Islam not fringe Islam. M ainstream Islam still teaches that those who do not follow the words of Muhammed are inferior to Muslims and infidel. That is fact not fiction and its a fact that prevents any

meaningful dialogue from coming about until Islamic followers transcend that doctrine pretty much like Christians have now moved on from

defining Jews as inheriting the moral damnation of our ancestors alleged to have killed Christ.

The concept of holding Jews culpable thousands of years later for the alleged sins of our ancestors fueled Christian anti semitism no differently

than Muslim anti semitism is fueled by the concept and belief in dhimmitude which not one, not one anti Israel will acknowledge on this board-they can't-it flies in the face of their script. To acknowledge it would require acknowledging the very reason Israel is rejected as a Jewish state is a religious one from Islam not this bull sheeyit crap fantasy that anti semitism in the Muslim world which defines Jews as inferior does not exist to this day.

Not a peep from these arm chair experts on semitic roots, Zionism, etc.

This is all summed-up in 'The Repentance' of the Quran. The infamous Verse of Swords and such. These verses abrogate all the so-called peaceful verses (ie Muhammad sucking-up to non-believers).

This is the chapter in its entirety...pretty nasty towards unbelievers. No...I didn't write it...to my opponents. Allah did.

https://quran.com/9

[GostHacked]

Wow DoP your knowledge if Islam seems to be quite intimate. You must study it a lot.

[DogOnPorch]

My favorite is still the Bhagavad Gita...especially illuminated editions. A treasure of prose and wisdom.

Everybody recalls Arjuna's Dilemma given enough literature classes, etc. Good stuff.

The Quran is rather violent....calling on its members to be harsh against the unbeliever. None of that turning the other cheek stuff. As Himmler called it: a true warrior's religion.

Edited August 26, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Rue]

My favorite is still the Bhagavad Gita...especially illuminated editions. A treasure of prose and wisdom.

Everybody recalls Arjuna's Dilemma given enough literature classes, etc. Good stuff.

The Quran is rather violent....calling on its members to be harsh against the unbeliever. None of that turning the other cheek stuff. As Himmler called it: a true warrior's religion.

I concur.

Wow DoP your knowledge if Islam seems to be quite intimate. You must study it a lot.

What exactly is eyeball's role here? And how does that compare to the other threads??

As for you Ghost, his role is the same as yours and compares to yours in other threads as well as in this thread.

The above words from you, your repeated attempts at being insulting and baiting, speak loudly.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

The above words from you, your repeated attempts at being insulting and baiting, speak loudly.

It's only bait if you decide to bite.

[Rue]

It's only bait if you decide to bite.

Its bait the moment you pollute the board with it whether there is a response or not. Trying to absolve yourself of

your comments claiming they only become insipid once they are responded to is illogical.

Its your choice to keep baiting. You achieve nothing. The snide asides only establish an appearance of pettiness.

If you can't discuss the thread topic don't.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Its bait the moment you pollute the board with it whether there is a response or not. Trying to absolve yourself of

your comments claiming they only become insipid once they are responded to is illogical.

Its your choice to keep baiting. You achieve nothing. The snide asides only establish an appearance of pettiness.

If you can't discuss the thread topic don't.

Oh I've tried, but I've been met with long rants and insults. You can chose to bite, or move on. Don't blame me for your responses.

[taxme]

So the Nazis are off the hook? Taxme will be happy to hear that.

Zionism crying again, and trying to gain sympathy as usual. There has been many countries through out history where we have seen in the past many countries kicking the Jews out. Did they just kick the Jews out because they just didn't like their looks or was there a good reason for that to happen?

Just why does anybody who criticizes anything that has to do with Israel or Judaism as to be a Muslim terrorist supporter or a anti-Jewish racist and bigot? Why the hell does this seem to be the case all the time? If a people refuse to be questioned on anything or can't take some criticism for what they say or do then they must truly have something to hide. I don't see anyone here trying to promote hatred or violence towards Jews. Only the paranoid ones seem to think that this is so. Sad indeed.

[Rue]

Oh I've tried, but I've been met with long rants and insults. You can chose to bite, or move on. Don't blame me for your responses.

Of course you are responsible for the content of your memorandums. You again now try bait me presenting yourself as a victim and

refuse to discuss the thread, only your own victimhood.

[taxme]

It's all Islams fault and feminized men. Hitler and Nazis are never mentioned once in the OP, I can't vouch for the rest of the book though.

If I were German, I would take offence to this constant bringing up the word Nazi all the time. No one here seems to like people who keep bringing up the word Zionism. They get all flustered up about it. But yet they have no problem bringing up the word Nazi.

Get over it Zionists, the war is over. Stop trying to make the German people of today feel like they have to continually feel guilty and apologize for what Hitler did in the past. There are hardly any Germans left from that era. The ones alive today most had nothing to do with the war, they were not alive then. I know that to the victor goes the spoils but do we always have to hear about the Zionist victory over the Germans all the time. I am pretty sure that the German people must be getting sick and tired of hearing about it. And why do these Zionists never seem to condemn or say anything bad about the like calling the Japanese, Japs? They were on the side of Hitler during WW2.

So, why don't Zionists use the word "Jap anytime? Is it because the Japs are not white, and the Zionists don't want to appear or be called racist? I can never understand as to why this is so. Maybe one of the Zionists here can explain this one to me. Over to them if they care to reply. Just asking.

[Rue]

Zionism crying again, and trying to gain sympathy as usual. There has been many countries through out history where we have seen in the past many countries kicking the Jews out. Did they just kick the Jews out because they just didn't like their looks or was there a good reason for that to happen?

Just why does anybody who criticizes anything that has to do with Israel or Judaism as to be a Muslim terrorist supporter or a anti-Jewish racist and bigot? Why the hell does this seem to be the case all the time? If a people refuse to be questioned on anything or can't take some criticism for what they say or do then they must truly have something to hide. I don't see anyone here trying to promote hatred or violence towards Jews. Only the paranoid ones seem to think that this is so. Sad indeed.

In regards to your first comment you suggest there was good reason for as you say "kicking Jews out of many countries".

That of course has nothing to do with the thread topic and everything to do with you trying to provoke with name calling. Your words in paragraph can be summarized very susinctly, "Jews deserve to be kicked out of countries."

The words have nothing to do with the thread and everything to do with you suggesting Jews are bad people deserving expulsion from countries.

That line of comment is a classic example of anti-Semitism, justifying expulsion of Jews.

Next you make this statement in paragraph 2, which is the repeated m.o. of Ghost as well, you state:

"Just why does anybody who criticizes anything that has to do with Israel or Judaism as to be a Muslim terrorist supporter or a anti-Jewish racist and bigot? Why the hell does this seem to be the case all the time?"

In Ghost's case he poses the above accusation claiming I suggest ANY criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. He's repeated the accusation over 10 times on this forum and never once has provided words from me where I did that because he can't-I never have.

Now when you ask a question starting with "why does anybody" you engage in a vague reference just as you did in your first paragraph with reference to

"\many countries".

That technique of using a generalized unspecific reference is there for all to see. By engaging in an unspecific reference it makes it impossible for

anyone to in fact know who this "anybody who criticizes is" just as you make no reference to any of these so called "many countries" and provide examples of either. Like Ghost you can't because you manufacture a predicated accusation based on fabricated conjecture-you pose a fabricated

reference.

There is no anybody just as there are no many countries. What there are however are your words, and when I respond I respond to your words, not "anybody's", just like when an anti-Semite comes on this board, I respond to their words, not anybody's. I specifically point out the words and why they are hateful to Jews that then makes them anti semitic.

You tax provide another excellent example of anti-Semitism. You don't discuss the thread. In fact you respond to me to claim Jews deserve to be expelled from countries with no basis for your conclusion other than if "many" did it, they must have had good reason. In your world, the basis of

the correctness of sense of a conclusion is not based on objective criteria, but the number of people that agree on the same thing.

Well if "many" do it-it must be right? Yes brilliant logic. In my world we learned long ago, mobs kill, mobs mutilate, mobs burn down things based on atred and their numbers do not make them right if what they do is hateful and in fact hate fuels mobs.

You then make the statement, "this seems the case all the time". You express a subjective feeling, a bias you have. Of course you see this "all the time".

I don't doubt you might see dead people,. hear voices, se the f ace of Jesus in tree bark, see the face of Satan in Jews, etc. Your point?

You see things and now? You have visions that "anybody" for no reason complains for no good reason when it comes to discussing Israel.

Yah I bet you see that. I bet you see Jews in many negative visions. Now what? You've invented the catregory of "anybody" which basically means an unlimited number of people. Who are they? Do hey have names? Do they exist? Of course not.

You don't see hatred against Jews, well then it doesn't exist. End of story. Ghost has made the same pronouncement. He sees no bigotry on this and any other thread about Jews.

No one comes on this board and engages in baiting of Jews and making comments negative about Jews using the pretext of discussing Israel to do so.

No one. I made it up.

You done?

I am somebody. Your words exist. I am a Jew. I exist. Your words in your first paragraph present an insult about Jews that has nothing to do with the thread.

You established in paragraph one, what you claim doesn't exist in paragraph 2.

May I suggest you and Ghost try out Stormfront the neo Nazi forum. You'll feel comfortable there with people that will agree with both of you about

Jews and how there is no anti-Semitism when discussing Israel.

In your second paragraph

[Rue]

If I were German, I would take offence to this constant bringing up the word Nazi all the time. No one here seems to like people who keep bringing up the word Zionism. They get all flustered up about it. But yet they have no problem bringing up the word Nazi.

Get over it Zionists, the war is over. Stop trying to make the German people of today feel like they have to continually feel guilty and apologize for what Hitler did in the past. There are hardly any Germans left from that era. The ones alive today most had nothing to do with the war, they were not alive then. I know that to the victor goes the spoils but do we always have to hear about the Zionist victory over the Germans all the time. I am pretty sure that the German people must be getting sick and tired of hearing about it. And why do these Zionists never seem to condemn or say anything bad about the like calling the Japanese, Japs? They were on the side of Hitler during WW2.

So, why don't Zionists use the word "Jap anytime? Is it because the Japs are not white, and the Zionists don't want to appear or be called racist? I can never understand as to why this is so. Maybe one of the Zionists here can explain this one to me. Over to them if they care to reply. Just asking.

Lol you don't want an answer.

I will explain it to you.

You come on this board to bait Jews and deny the holocaust. You've made it clear what your feelings are about Jews. You now

respond to a comment from Eye that misrepresented a response I gave in response to anti semitic statement. No Zionist, nor myself comes on this board and calls Germans Nazis or German men feminine. No one.

You fabricated a comment about Germans that does not exist and was never uttered by me,. Go on produce the words where I or any Zionist as you call them on this board called Germans feminine or Nazis. Please. Provide the words. Can you do that? Can you once, take one of your accusations and back it up with words. Eye can't. He misrepresents but he never provides the original words he claims were stated-he can't.

Ghost has come on this board and made numerous accusations I call anyone who criticizes Israel state policies an anti semite .

Now you plus the above false accusation Then you pose yourself as speaking to Zionists and telling these Zionists to stop calling Germans Nazis. So there we have it you rallying the masses with written proclamation to tell Zionists what they should say and if a German was a Nazi and engaged in the holocaust, we are not to mention they were Nazis or engage in the holocaust right? How far you want to go with your prohibition as to what Zionists can't say.

Now does your prohibition only apply to Zionists or does it apply to all Jews and hey non Jews say like Poles, Russians, Jehvova's Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, communists, socialists, gays, Romas, certain Catholics or Protestants related to Christians who lost their lives fighting Nazis? How about them?

Lol.

What an absurd but blatant example of the kind of anti semitic drivel that is passed on this board under the pretext its responding to a thread on the origins of where the concept Jews can't own land or have a state comes from.

Yah yah. I won't call ISIL terrorists. Lol.

Taxme as hard as you try to make this thread about you and Jews or Zionists you want to engage in a war with, I will tell you what I tell Ghost or or Big Guy, or any other of the nomme de plummes on this board- my comments are not from "anybody". They come from you and when you engage in anti semitic drivel, I challenge that drivel.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

Hey now isn't it wonderful how not one of my esteemed colleagues who respond to me on this board complaining about false accusations of anti Semitism won't discuss the thread. Gee why is that. Why do they keep changing the thread topic. I can't understand why. Hey now, let me illustrate the point I made which no one claiming the denial of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state comes from the concept of dhimmitude and the Koran.

One of the sources for my contentions which have yet to be contradicted by any Muslim on this forum or the anti Israelis for that matter is:

http://www.meforum.org/2462/the-quran-israel-not-for-jews

It states:

"Muslims can get beyond anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism only by forthrightly acknowledging that the Qur'an and Sunna do, indeed, teach that the Jews are accursed and are to be warred against. Muslims must explicitly formulate theological frameworks that reject literalism in this regard. To deny that the Qur'anic evidence actually says what it does, however, is only to allow the endemic and pandemic problem of Islamic anti-Semitism to continue unchallenged."

The above article as I have also argued points out the origins of the concepts of Islam towards Jews that originated the concept of Jews being unable to own land or be equal to Muslims.

That belief has today been rejected by a minority of progressive Muslims who like Christians and Jews and people of other religions, no longer

read passages of spiritual books and give them only one literal meaning.

Those Muslims like the rest of us, have moved past literal or fundamental interpretation of passages.

However mainstream Islam is not there yet and the literal interpretation of the Koran about Jews which has existed since the 7th century mixed with a , Egypt, form created in Nazi Germany and then was repackaged by Nazis in alliance with Arab leaders in WW2. Post WW2 Nazis fled to Syria, Egypt, Iraq en masse running their governments and continuing the mix of Nazi-Islamic anti-Semitism. It then morphed again in shape as these former Nazis slowly died out and the Soviet Union's version of anti-semitism came in as the Soviets became the principle supporters of Arab countries against

Israel.

Interestingly British, French, German and Soviet/Russian anti Semitism from Europe all at certain phases of their colonial rulers influence in the Middle East mixed with Islamic anti-Semitism to form new strains of expression but the origins in the Middle East existed long before the European version came.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

https://www.politicalislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PDF-Look-Inside/Sharia_Non-Muslim_look_inside.pdf

In the above article if you go to the chapter on "khafir", i.e., non Muslims, you will see how Sharia law defines them.

64% of the Koran refers to non Muslims or khafir.

That can be broken down to 81% of the Sira, and 32% of the Hadith.

The Sira's references are as to the "struggles" Muhammed had with non believers or khafir.

Sharia law itself is for Muslims so it doesn't spend as much time as the Koran on discussing non Jews.

Negative references to khafir in the Koran can be found on pages 18 and 19 of this article.

Now some Muslim scholars have tried to also state the Koran has passages not as hateful as the above

saying Muslims should be merciful to non Muslims and one could argue certain passages argues Jews

should have their own Jewish state but mainstream Islam rejected the concept of Jews being promised

a state from God saying they lost that promise and were punished for being deceitful.

As well the negative passages have been read to take precedent over the lesser number of merciful

references which are read as only limited mercy provided khafir know their place within Muslim society

as an inferior.

In this article,

https://www.jstor.org/stable/761944?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

which properly cited in length is:

Religious Minorities under Islamic Law and the Limits of Cultural Relativism
Abdullahi A. An-Na'im
Human Rights Quarterly
Vol. 9, No. 1 (Feb., 1987), pp. 1-18
Published by: The Johns Hopkins University Press
DOI: 10.2307/761944
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/761944
Page Count: 18

..it explains in details why non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims in Muslim states.

What is ironic is that each and every accusation about Israel you've read on this board, i.e., are in fact

the accusations that have been made about Islam, i.e., the creation of a discriminatory state based on religion,

the placing of non Muslims in a third class apartheid system, condonation of intolerance.

In real life as most of us know any religion can be used as a weapon to justify terrorism, extremism, bigotry but

at the present time-the fuel causing Islamic extremism to spread is Islamic fundamentalism.

You've read the posts on this board. They try rewrite history to portray Islam as a peaceful religion which only

went terrorist and extreme once Westerners and the Jews showed up.

The fact is Jews didn't show up and like Chistians, Berbers, Kurds, Druze, they are as indigenous to the Middle East s any Muslim.

The terrorism, the violence in Islamic society has been around since it started. It didn't just magically appear because a Jew came from

Europe after WW2.

The attempt to revise history and ignore what the Koran says and how its being used and has been used to justify discriminating against non

Muslims is a central component of the denial of the right of Jews to have a state.

Its also interesting because to pretend Islamic terrorism is only caused by and directed at "bad Jews" i.e., Zionist Jews has been proven time

and time again to be false and that Muslim extremism kills more Muslims as the targeted enemy than any other people.

[taxme]

Hey now isn't it wonderful how not one of my esteemed colleagues who respond to me on this board complaining about false accusations of anti Semitism won't discuss the thread. Gee why is that. Why do they keep changing the thread topic. I can't understand why. Hey now, let me illustrate the point I made which no one claiming the denial of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state comes from the concept of dhimmitude and the Koran.

One of the sources for my contentions which have yet to be contradicted by any Muslim on this forum or the anti Israelis for that matter is:

http://www.meforum.org/2462/the-quran-israel-not-for-jews

It states:

"Muslims can get beyond anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism only by forthrightly acknowledging that the Qur'an and Sunna do, indeed, teach that the Jews are accursed and are to be warred against. Muslims must explicitly formulate theological frameworks that reject literalism in this regard. To deny that the Qur'anic evidence actually says what it does, however, is only to allow the endemic and pandemic problem of Islamic anti-Semitism to continue unchallenged."

The above article as I have also argued points out the origins of the concepts of Islam towards Jews that originated the concept of Jews being unable to own land or be equal to Muslims.

That belief has today been rejected by a minority of progressive Muslims who like Christians and Jews and people of other religions, no longer

read passages of spiritual books and give them only one literal meaning.

Those Muslims like the rest of us, have moved past literal or fundamental interpretation of passages.

However mainstream Islam is not there yet and the literal interpretation of the Koran about Jews which has existed since the 7th century mixed with a , Egypt, form created in Nazi Germany and then was repackaged by Nazis in alliance with Arab leaders in WW2. Post WW2 Nazis fled to Syria, Egypt, Iraq en masse running their governments and continuing the mix of Nazi-Islamic anti-Semitism. It then morphed again in shape as these former Nazis slowly died out and the Soviet Union's version of anti-semitism came in as the Soviets became the principle supporters of Arab countries against

Israel.

Interestingly British, French, German and Soviet/Russian anti Semitism from Europe all at certain phases of their colonial rulers influence in the Middle East mixed with Islamic anti-Semitism to form new strains of expression but the origins in the Middle East existed long before the European version came.

That is certainly a lot of ranting and raving by you going on here. I believe that you truly do enjoy taking things out of context, don't you? Are all Jews like that? Take it however susinctly all you want too but I just don't see where I said that Jews need to be kicked out of any country nonsense from. You said those words, not me. Get to know your Jewish history and you will learn that Jews have been kicked out of many countries long ago in the past and where their must have been justification for doing so. But you would know more about that than I would but you would never admit to it. One doesn't kick someone out of their house or car or business unless there was a good reason for doing so. But you would know that, right?

Do I need to tell you to go check out this on the internet, or are you one of those who thinks that anything said not so nice about Jews on the internet is all lies? I don't really believe that you are wanting to answer anything I asked of you. All you seem to want to do is call me anti-semitic, and instead attack me for daring and having the gall to question or challenge anything that has to do with Judaism. Jews are not the chosen ones as we have all been taught to believe, and should be considered beyond being questioned or criticized for what Jews say and do.

People have called me a troll. I believe that there are other trolls here also. Are you one of them? Just asking?

[taxme]

In regards to your first comment you suggest there was good reason for as you say "kicking Jews out of many countries".

That of course has nothing to do with the thread topic and everything to do with you trying to provoke with name calling. Your words in paragraph can be summarized very susinctly, "Jews deserve to be kicked out of countries."

The words have nothing to do with the thread and everything to do with you suggesting Jews are bad people deserving expulsion from countries.

That line of comment is a classic example of anti-Semitism, justifying expulsion of Jews.

Next you make this statement in paragraph 2, which is the repeated m.o. of Ghost as well, you state:

"Just why does anybody who criticizes anything that has to do with Israel or Judaism as to be a Muslim terrorist supporter or a anti-Jewish racist and bigot? Why the hell does this seem to be the case all the time?"

In Ghost's case he poses the above accusation claiming I suggest ANY criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. He's repeated the accusation over 10 times on this forum and never once has provided words from me where I did that because he can't-I never have.

Now when you ask a question starting with "why does anybody" you engage in a vague reference just as you did in your first paragraph with reference to

"\many countries".

That technique of using a generalized unspecific reference is there for all to see. By engaging in an unspecific reference it makes it impossible for

anyone to in fact know who this "anybody who criticizes is" just as you make no reference to any of these so called "many countries" and provide examples of either. Like Ghost you can't because you manufacture a predicated accusation based on fabricated conjecture-you pose a fabricated

reference.

There is no anybody just as there are no many countries. What there are however are your words, and when I respond I respond to your words, not "anybody's", just like when an anti-Semite comes on this board, I respond to their words, not anybody's. I specifically point out the words and why they are hateful to Jews that then makes them anti semitic.

You tax provide another excellent example of anti-Semitism. You don't discuss the thread. In fact you respond to me to claim Jews deserve to be expelled from countries with no basis for your conclusion other than if "many" did it, they must have had good reason. In your world, the basis of

the correctness of sense of a conclusion is not based on objective criteria, but the number of people that agree on the same thing.

Well if "many" do it-it must be right? Yes brilliant logic. In my world we learned long ago, mobs kill, mobs mutilate, mobs burn down things based on atred and their numbers do not make them right if what they do is hateful and in fact hate fuels mobs.

You then make the statement, "this seems the case all the time". You express a subjective feeling, a bias you have. Of course you see this "all the time".

I don't doubt you might see dead people,. hear voices, se the f ace of Jesus in tree bark, see the face of Satan in Jews, etc. Your point?

You see things and now? You have visions that "anybody" for no reason complains for no good reason when it comes to discussing Israel.

Yah I bet you see that. I bet you see Jews in many negative visions. Now what? You've invented the catregory of "anybody" which basically means an unlimited number of people. Who are they? Do hey have names? Do they exist? Of course not.

You don't see hatred against Jews, well then it doesn't exist. End of story. Ghost has made the same pronouncement. He sees no bigotry on this and any other thread about Jews.

No one comes on this board and engages in baiting of Jews and making comments negative about Jews using the pretext of discussing Israel to do so.

No one. I made it up.

You done?

I am somebody. Your words exist. I am a Jew. I exist. Your words in your first paragraph present an insult about Jews that has nothing to do with the thread.

You established in paragraph one, what you claim doesn't exist in paragraph 2.

May I suggest you and Ghost try out Stormfront the neo Nazi forum. You'll feel comfortable there with people that will agree with both of you about

Jews and how there is no anti-Semitism when discussing Israel.

In your second paragraph

One has to have patients talking with you. All I said was that German people must find it very offensive and must be getting pretty much fed up with always having to hear the word Nazi being mentioned, and you have mentioned the word Nazi in many of your posts. The Zionists need to get off their high horse and stop and start to think that using the word Nazi all the time is offensive, especially to those Germans who are not Nazis. We are not suppose to say the word "Indian" anymore because it is suppose to be offensive to Native Indians. Many double standards in this country.

And I see where you totally ignored replying to why the "Japs" are not also attacked by you or the zionists when we all should know by now that the "Japs" were on the side of Hitler. Why is it that everything that comes out of the zionists mouth is always the word Nazi but never Japs? This I would like you to reply too, if you dare to do so.

[Rue]

Taxme you continue to refer to what "Zionists" have said but provide no reference to any actual Zionist let any of their words.

Because of that, at this point Taxme, you in effect ask me to explain why you hear and see certain things.

All I can say is they are called auditory and visual hallucinations. These Jews and Zionists seem real to you but they don't actually exist.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Rue

[dre]

Indeed. Hitler, alone, wasn't responsible for WW2.

By all means, give your version of the Arab-Israeli conflict's origins since mine is incorrect.

Its just a garden variety spat over land and resources, with a side of religious idiocy.

It originated during the Ottoman era in the 1880's when Jewish immigration started to increase. Between then and the start of WW1 the Jewish population increased and tensions between Arabs and Jews increased along with it. The Russians thought that Jews had assassinated Alexander the 2nd, and started pogroms, most notably in Kiev. This caused a lot of Russian Jews to leave for the United States, and Palestine, and it also increased the urgency of jews to create their own state. This increased tensions even more, and stoked the fires of both Zionism and Arab Nationalism. The British at that point realized what a bunch of retarded zealots they were dealing with and moved to extricate themselves from the situation.

Throw religion into the mix just to make things worse and there you have it. Conflict: Dirtfarm Holy Land. Two gangs of retarded zealots who's idiocy is an embarrassment to the human race that we will never be free of.

Edited August 29, 2016 by dre

[Rue]

Ah there we go then. There was no conflict between Jews and Muslims over land prior to the Ottoman Empire. Dre says so.

Dre proclaims this with zero proof but heythere it is zowee, Dre said so.

Dre's attempt to snapshot history and delete the origins of the conflict in Islam that holds Jews can not own land and therefore have a state

speaks directly to the exact fallacy this thread addressed directly and of course Dre has no idea how to debate let alone repudiate so he just pretends the history of conflict never existed.

Pathetic but to be expected.

[marcus]

Ah there we go then. There was no conflict between Jews and Muslims over land prior to the Ottoman Empire. Dre says so.

There was very little conflict in Ottoman Palestine because the very small population of Jews (8% in 1895) who lived there, lived peacefully with the Arabs.

[GostHacked]

Ah there we go then. There was no conflict between Jews and Muslims over land prior to the Ottoman Empire.

There was conflict before that, the modern incarnation of Israel is essentially irrelevant because of the long standing ongoing conflict between the two peoples. It seems that people are using the date when new Israel was created as a starting point for this continuing conflict.

[Rue]

In response to Marcus in post 70, your declaration that Jews lived peacefully in the Ottoman Empire is of course false and anyone can look up the litany of attacks on Jews by Muslims commencing in the 7th century and that continue to this day in the Middle East.

The creation of Israel in 1949 is but one event in a chain of events of conflict. If you want to pretend everything was just fine until Israel was created

that of course is your prerogative and expected from your script which denies that the root of the problem is based on Islamic belief that Jews can not own land, have a state or be considered legal equals to Muslims, to this day.

Your script depends on people ignoring history and then revising it is to be expected.

The name changes but the script is identical. Lol.

[DogOnPorch]

Just one example...pre Zionism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed

[Rue]

In response to Taxme, your latest response to me has nothing to do with the thread or what I said. You try create a new topic accusing me of calling any German a Nazi. Its what you do, make false accusations you can't prove by showing any words I said and try change the topic to bait Jews by denying the holocaust.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Rue

[marcus]

In response to Marcus

There was no response to the fact that 8% of Palestine were Jewish before the mass Zionist immigration. Imagine if the original Zionists had accepted to move to Kenya instead. Possible conflict to the tune of what happened in South Africa, but I doubt it could have created as much conflict as the decision to move the mostly European Jews to Palestine.