Canadian Conservatives

[dialamah]

It's impossible to escape media bias, period. Not sure there is such a thing as a 'proper' newspaper any more. Sometimes TV newsmagazine type programs or documentaries can provide a different viewpoint, cut through some of the BS. I don't think any mainstream media really does it's job properly any more.

[Argus]

I don't know why you don't consider the Telegraph not a tabloid. Other than the dimensions of the paper it is written on, it is absolute tabloid. Look at the front page of their website, about 50% of the articles are about tweeting, popular culture, swimsuit pictures, Pokeman, etc.

I read the Telegraph from time to time, as I do many other on-line media, from the BBC to the Sun to FOX and CBC. The commentary in the Telegraph is intelligently thought out and intelligently put, especially as compared to the likes of the Sun or Mirror or New York Daily News (which I also scan). It's also very open, not hidden as it is with the CBC or BBC or FOX. They don't claim, like those outlets, to be at all neutral.

Your real problem with the Telegraph is not the quality of the news or commentary but simply that it usually doesn't agree with your political views.

[Argus]

It has everything to do with the way the EU operates.

Perhaps, but my reading of the resentment towards the EU is that it was more related to intrusion on British sovereignty by Eurocrats and that flood of foreigners coming into the UK - and the potential for many, many more given the EUs complete inability to control the migration of Muslims from the middle east and north africa.

[August1991]

In Canada the right wing have a deluded sense of reality. The 'transfer payments' that August1991 is speaking about are paid from general revenues of the government of Canada....

"... general revenues of the government of Canada..." In eurospeak, "Brussels receives".

IOW, ordinary taxpayers in Alberta/Saskatchewan send money to bureaucrats in Halifax and Charlottetown.

=====

BTW, I consider myself right wing now in part because years ago, I decided no longer to delude myself. So, I'm still willing to cross over.

[JohnCanada]

It has everything to do with the way the EU operates.

As I said, if anything what you pointed out is an argument AGAINST the EU, because it wants behave like a country, against the will of the majority of Europeans, funny how you chose to ignore the rest of my points.

[August1991]

Perhaps, but my reading of the resentment towards the EU is that it was more related to intrusion on British sovereignty by Eurocrats and that flood of foreigners coming into the UK - and the potential for many, many more given the EUs complete inability to control the migration of Muslims from the middle east and north africa.

I think Farage said it right: "I want my country back."

When he resigned from UKIP, he said it better: "I want my life back."

======

If individual Europeans are prepared to pay zillions of euros annually to another government in another part of Europe, then Brussels Europe can work - like Canada.

If not, Brussels is a fiction.

[JohnCanada]

Perhaps, but my reading of the resentment towards the EU is that it was more related to intrusion on British sovereignty by Eurocrats and that flood of foreigners coming into the UK - and the potential for many, many more given the EUs complete inability to control the migration of Muslims from the middle east and north africa.

The European union is an utterly failed, undemocratic project. First on trade, being as members of the union can only sign free trade deals as a whole, the EU essentially tied us to the only stagnant economic bloc in the world, while making it remarkably hard to sign free trade deals with our close allies around the world, for example with Canada, we spent 7 years without having a trade deal because of an unrelated dispute about Bulgarian visas, with Australia, we couldn't have a trade deal because it hurts Italian tomatoes, etc. This went hand in hand with a remarkably ridiculous amount of protectionism, essentially forcing us to discriminate against the rest of the world on trade.

Same with immigration, The EU forced the UK to have a discriminatory immigration system, where any citizen of the EU with no English at all or any skills to bring had the RIGHT to move to the UK, and we had to turn down job applications from Indian doctors, or Canadian engineers, Kiwi businessmen and so on, as the levels of EU immigration were uncontrollable.

This movie sums it up:

There are many reasons for my support for Brexit but those are among the most important.

Edited July 18, 2016 by JohnCanada

[August1991]

The whole point here is the EU wants to behave like a country, an undemocratic one, and Brexit was about remaining as the United Kingdom, not a state in the United States of Europe. Also, Brexit wasn't about right of left, it was about belief in the country, there were many Tory voters who voted remain, and millions of labour supporters who voted leave, which was the reason Leave won. So I don't know what's the point you are trying to make here.

So, you English want to be Norway?

====

Is there any wonder even the Scots voted against you....

Edited July 18, 2016 by August1991

[JohnCanada]

I think Farage said it right: "I want my country back."

When he resigned from UKIP, he said it better: "I want my life back."

======

If individual Europeans are prepared to pay zillions of euros annually to another government in another part of Europe, then Brussels Europe can work - like Canada.

If not, Brussels is a fiction.

Canada is a country, Europe isn't, and forcing it to behave like a country was destined to fail from the beginning, also, the bailouts are just one of the many reasons why the UK will be better off outside of the EU.

[JohnCanada]

So, you British want to be Norway?

We want to be the United Kingdom.

The Norway deal is not good for us because they are part of the free movement area, which we are particularly keen not to be a part of. All we want from Europe is a free trade deal, which is very much on their interests, as it only takes a walk though West London to realise how keen the German auto industry (which calls the shots) will be to sign a free trade deal with us as soon as possible, same goes for french wine, Italian cheese, etc.

We are the 5th biggest economy in the world and a massive market, good enough to be independent.

Edited July 18, 2016 by JohnCanada

[Peter F]

... when I actually want to find out what's going on in the world, I am better off reading a proper newspaper.

And you read the Telegraph to supply you with that unadulterated, adjective free, news. So what are you asking us to provide again?

[?Impact]

Your real problem with the Telegraph is not the quality of the news or commentary but simply that it usually doesn't agree with your political views.

So what do you have to say about the Toronto Star then. It is probably one of the best researched and written papers in Canada, but has a very strong political bias. The Globe and Mail and National Post have opposing, although not quite as strong bias. All three papers do provide counter opinions as well, the Globe and Mail being the most balanced and the Toronto Star being the least. All three papers do a fair job of separating the opinion from the news, although you need to be a regular reader or else do your homework on the byline to know.

The CBC is not a newspaper, and their website articles are very superficial. Television (and radio) media is very different, and should not be used as comparison to mainstream newspapers.

I don't judge any media by their headlines, they are all 100% complete crap designed to get readership only.

I have no problem with political bias in the media, I make sure however to be aware of it and read opposing views as well. Surrounding yourself with opinions you nod to is not educating. That is why I laugh at the Rebel and their readership.

[eyeball]

The European union is an utterly failed, undemocratic project. First on trade, being as members of the union can only sign free trade deals as a whole, the EU essentially tied us to the only stagnant economic bloc in the world, while making it remarkably hard to sign free trade deals with our close allies around the world, for example with Canada, we spent 7 years without having a trade deal because of an unrelated dispute about Bulgarian visas, with Australia, we couldn't have a trade deal because it hurts Italian tomatoes, etc. This went hand in hand with a remarkably ridiculous amount of protectionism, essentially forcing us to discriminate against the rest of the world on trade.

We see the same thing being done in our silly little confederation of provinces for the same silly little reasons.

If you're imagining the dysfunctional state the world's states and provinces exist in was just a symptom of the lefties or righties as you seem to suggest is the case your litlle British bubble, I hate to be the one to pop that bubble. You'll get no relief from this angst by looking towards Canada for a change. Its the same everywhere you go.

Edited July 18, 2016 by eyeball

[JohnCanada]

We see the same thing being done in our silly little confederation of provinces for the same silly little reasons.

If you're imagining the dysfunctional state the world's states and provinces exist in was just a symptom of the lefties or righties as you seem to suggest is the case your litlle British bubble, I hate to be the one to pop that bubble. You'll get no relief from this angst by looking towards Canada for a change. Its the same everywhere you go.

If you are suggesting that certain provinces in Canada keep the country as a whole from making trade deals, then that would be rather unfortunate but its still different being as I've said many times, Canada is an actual country, those things happen in countries, the EU isn't, so for the UK, leaving the EU is an opportunity to free ourselves from a stalled union holding us back.

[JohnCanada]

So what do you have to say about the Toronto Star then. It is probably one of the best researched and written papers in Canada, but has a very strong political bias. The Globe and Mail and National Post have opposing, although not quite as strong bias. All three papers do provide counter opinions as well, the Globe and Mail being the most balanced and the Toronto Star being the least. All three papers do a fair job of separating the opinion from the news, although you need to be a regular reader or else do your homework on the byline to know.

The CBC is not a newspaper, and their website articles are very superficial. Television (and radio) media is very different, and should not be used as comparison to mainstream newspapers.

I don't judge any media by their headlines, they are all 100% complete crap designed to get readership only.

I have no problem with political bias in the media, I make sure however to be aware of it and read opposing views as well. Surrounding yourself with opinions you nod to is not educating. That is why I laugh at the Rebel and their readership.

Media bias in inevitable but the real problem is the left's constant desire to obfuscate reality, as I've explained in previous examples (Nice, German rapes, etc) That's why I prefer to read from right wing papers as they often tell the whole story, unlike many of their counterparts, trust me I am not surrounded by opinions I nod, I live in a labour stronghold called Liverpool.

As for the Telegraph, it simply isn't a tabloid, if you look at the online frontage, you'll find that easily 85% are relevant news and columns of world events and politics, then there's one article criticising Pokemon go, and the swimsuit you seem to make reference to is a member of the royal family, which I am largely uninterested in, and compared to most of British media, the Telegraph's coverage of the royal family is almost non-existent.

[eyeball]

If you are suggesting that certain provinces in Canada keep the country as a whole from making trade deals, then that would be rather unfortunate

I'm saying they all do it and so do all the governments in Ottawa.

but its still different being as I've said many times, Canada is an actual country, those things happen in countries, the EU isn't, so for the UK, leaving the EU is an opportunity to free ourselves from a stalled union holding us back.

Well as I've said many times the political machinations of governments big and small, whether they're unified or not happen everywhere. Our seeming inability, mostly unwillingness I think, to do anything serious about transparency and accountability is what's holding things back. In fact you'll find many who believe too much transparency will only make things worse. That's how FUBAR things have gotten.

[Moonlight Graham]

It's impossible to escape media bias, period. Not sure there is such a thing as a 'proper' newspaper any more. Sometimes TV newsmagazine type programs or documentaries can provide a different viewpoint, cut through some of the BS. I don't think any mainstream media really does it's job properly any more.

It's easy to see media bias in op-eds. The toughest media bias to realize are the stories an outlet chooses or doesn't choose to cover, it's like a passive kind of bias, and often not conscious on the outlet's part.

[scribblet]

That's why I am saying I want to follow Canadian politics through Canadian media, but the way some papers report on foreign events, like Nice, gives me a pretty good idea of how they operate.

Try some aggregators such as http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/ http://newswatchcanada.ca/ The Sun papers are not as bad as the left would have you believe, they will often report on news that the left doesn't like, the source isn't really the issue, it's the content. The Rebel often leans to a lot of hyperbole but the incidents it reports on are true, all you have to do is search for confirmation. They reported recently on a cover up of student refugee issue out east which the MSM won't report on, they had all the documentation to back up their story.

News is news, it's the editorials and opinion pieces that can be pro Liberal or pro Conservative.

Edited July 19, 2016 by scribblet

[JohnCanada]

Try some aggregators such as http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/ http://newswatchcanada.ca/ The Sun papers are not as bad as the left would have you believe, they will often report on news that the left doesn't like, the source isn't really the issue, it's the content. The Rebel often leans to a lot of hyperbole but the incidents it reports on are true, all you have to do is search for confirmation. They reported recently on a cover up of student refugee issue out east which the MSM won't report on, they had all the documentation to back up their story.

News is news, it's the editorials and opinion pieces that can be pro Liberal or pro Conservative.

Alright, cheers mate.

[cannuck]

CONSERVATIVES in Canada? That's a laugh. Red Tories might as well be part of the Yankee Uniparty, as any semblance of conservatism is long dead there, never existed here. And, NO - fundamentalist religious fruitcakes are not conservatives, they are just right wing idiots.

The last actual conservative cabinet member here was Erik Nielsen - and just remember what happened to him when he went after the bureaucrats, waste and mismanagement.

In Ottawa, mismanagement is seen as Miss Management, the insperational and aspirational poster on ever bureaucrat's locker door.

Watch old re-runs of "yes Minister" if you wish to learn how we run government here. I think they call this the "British Parliamentary System" or something like that.

Edited July 23, 2016 by cannuck

[Argus]

Rex Murphy makes a point which resonates:

There is a vast disconnect between the experiences and opinions of those who have channelled this anti-politician as a vessel of their discontent and the elite tribe of the political class.

He is speaking about Rob Ford, about Brexit, and about Donald Trump, and in all cases there was the intelligentsia, the elites, the bourgeois, as you might call them, and then ordinary people. In Canada, we have a groupthink among the political, media and academic classes which is, I think, similarly out of touch with the ordinary Canadian. The Conservatives should bear this in mind when considering a leader, and perhaps choose one who could hold some appeal in the way of realistic, open, honest conversation, instead of the bland, politically correct, nuanced political swill we tend to be fed.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/rex-murphy-what-do-rob-ford-the-brexit-and-donald-trump-have-in-common