The Changing Face of War

[Big Guy]

I would. If he wanted to instead drive a truck through a party, I'd discourage it.

What if it is a party of enemies?

[Guest]

What if it is a party of enemies?

I suppose it would be like a murmuration of starlings, but slower, and without the coordination. However, I've never heard of the collective term, myself.

Still, drive away. Use a tank.

[Big Guy]

I suppose it would be like a murmuration of starlings, but slower, and without the coordination. However, I've never heard of the collective term, myself.

Still, drive away. Use a tank.

Perhaps you can choose one of these:

Collective Terms

[Guest]

A Clattering of Choughs. Who knew?

[Big Guy]

Looks like the war is changing but once more. Turkey, our NATO ally, has its leader in Russia shaking hands with and promising closer ties with Russia. Hey, who is on what side here?

Here we are with Canadian troops on the ground helping our allies (who are they anyway?) with Turkish, Russian, American, German etc jets flying overhead and dropping bombs on the enemy (whoever they are). Right now we are applying economic sanctions (which are hurting our economy) on Russia while our NATO ally is talking turkey with Putin?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/turkey-russia-agree-cement-ties-160809135944476.html

Get our troops the hell out of there and do it fast!!

[Big Guy]

More interesting news about the changing face of war. Apparently there are a number of medals and citations which have been presented to American soldiers during this war that have to be kept secret:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/politics/isis-battles-silver-stars-documented/index.html

Apparently it is the same with other countries. If the winners were publicized then their families would be in danger at home. I think this is the first war where anonymity is required so that the enemy, who can now easily locate the families of the soldiers, target the families in revenge for the killings on their soil.

[-TSS-]

War is not only about conflict; it is also about debt-annulment.

[Altai]

Looks like the war is changing but once more. Turkey, our NATO ally, has its leader in Russia shaking hands with and promising closer ties with Russia. Hey, who is on what side here?

Here we are with Canadian troops on the ground helping our allies (who are they anyway?) with Turkish, Russian, American, German etc jets flying overhead and dropping bombs on the enemy (whoever they are). Right now we are applying economic sanctions (which are hurting our economy) on Russia while our NATO ally is talking turkey with Putin?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/turkey-russia-agree-cement-ties-160809135944476.html

Get our troops the hell out of there and do it fast!!

We are not allies. We dont trust each other based on valid reasons. This is a compulsory friendship and we are going to leave NATO in near future. Our aim is to create Turan Union and Muslim Union. We will create a common Muslim Army first.

[Rue]

We are not allies. We dont trust each other based on valid reasons. This is a compulsory friendship and we are going to leave NATO in near future. Our aim is to create Turan Union and Muslim Union. We will create a common Muslim Army first.

Well then it didn't take too much time to get your agenda out Altai. Muslim Union. Turan Union.

At least you have the integrity to state your agenda.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Rue

[bush_cheney2004]

Okay...it all makes sense now. After all, the 100th anniversary for the start of the Armenian Genocide just passed.

Edited September 4, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Altai]

Well then it didn't take too much time to get your agenda out Altai. Muslim Union. Turan Union.

At least you have the integrity to state your agenda.

Why should I "hide" my agenda ? Do you think everyone acts like "Israelis" ? We are Muslims. Dont compare with yourself.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Altai

[dialamah]

We are not allies. We dont trust each other based on valid reasons. This is a compulsory friendship and we are going to leave NATO in near future. Our aim is to create Turan Union and Muslim Union. We will create a common Muslim Army first.

What will be the purpose of this Muslim Army? Isn't there already a Muslim army there?

[Altai]

What will be the purpose of this Muslim Army? Isn't there already a Muslim army there?

Unity of Muslim countries. For example to prevent any Western countries to invade a Muslim country under the pretext of fighting an "artificial" terror organization.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Altai

[dialamah]

Unity of Muslim countries. For example to prevent any Western countries to invade a Muslim country under the pretext of fighting an "artificial" terror organization.

I can certainly understand you not wanting Western military coming in without cause and I agree with that. But if you don't need our help, why is ISIS still around - shouldn't your forces in the ME have been able to get rid of them? Unless you consider ISIS a legitimate army representing Muslim and Islamic interests?

I am really curious about your perspective on this.

[Altai]

I can certainly understand you not wanting Western military coming in without cause and I agree with that. But if you don't need our help, why is ISIS still around - shouldn't your forces in the ME have been able to get rid of them? Unless you consider ISIS a legitimate army representing Muslim and Islamic interests?

I am really curious about your perspective on this.

Because we are not unity and Muslim countries are not allowed to intervene issue. ISIS can be around as long as noone intervene against them.

For example who is going to interfere with ISIS in Iraq ? The last time we were blamed of being invaders by Iraqi govt when we entered Iraqi Kurdish Region to help Kurds against ISIS.

Another example is Syrian dictatorship, they want help from Russia and US against ISIS and accept the big part of Muslim countries as their enemies.

Now its my turn to ask you a question. ISIS sell oil and makes money, is not it ? So then how could we prevent them to sell oil ? Destroying about 10-12 oil rafineries in ISIS controlled areas would be a perfect choice ? is not it ? Can you please reply, why these oil rafineries are not made unavailable by US or by Russia or by Syrian regime ? So these powers are the absolute rulers of the region.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Altai

[dialamah]

Because we are not unity and Muslim countries are not allowed to intervene issue. ISIS can be around as long as noone intervene against them.

For example who is going to interfere with ISIS in Iraq ? The last time we were blamed of being invaders by Iraqi govt when we entered Iraqi Kurdish Region to help Kurds against ISIS.

Another example is Syrian dictatorship, they want help from Russia and US against ISIS and accept the big part of Muslim countries as their enemies.

Now its my turn to ask you a question. ISIS sell oil and makes money, is not it ? So then how could we prevent them to sell oil ? Destroying about 10-12 oil rafineries in ISIS controlled areas would be a perfect choice ? is not it ? Can you please reply, why these oil rafineries are not made unavailable by US or by Russia or by Syrian regime ? So these powers are the absolute rulers of the region.

I just want to be sure I clearly understand what you are saying.

1. That Turkey is prevented from doing anything about ISIS both by Western powers and by neighboring Muslim countries?

2. That destroying or otherwise making oil refineries unavailable would put an end to ISIS, but that Western powers will neither destroy the refineries, nor make them unavailable to ISIS?

3. That Syria is a traitor to the region because they want or accept help from the West and Russia?

Am I understanding you correctly?

[Altai]

I just want to be sure I clearly understand what you are saying.

1. That Turkey is prevented from doing anything about ISIS both by Western powers and by neighboring Muslim countries?

2. That destroying or otherwise making oil refineries unavailable would put an end to ISIS, but that Western powers will neither destroy the refineries, nor make them unavailable to ISIS?

3. That Syria is a traitor to the region because they want or accept help from the West and Russia?

Am I understanding you correctly?

1) Post 65

2) Yes this would cause a big damage on ISIS because many of their fighters are mercenaries. They also buy weapons with this money. Yes these rafineries are not destroyed.

3) I feel the same that what you would feel if US would need help and they would choose Saudi Arabia as an ally instead of Canada.

[dialamah]

1) Post 65

2) Yes this would cause a big damage on ISIS because many of their fighters are mercenaries. They also buy weapons with this money. Yes these rafineries are not destroyed.

3) I feel the same that what you would feel if US would need help and they would choose Saudi Arabia as an ally instead of Canada.

I know there is a lot of infighting in the region, and unlike many on this forum, I don't always understand the nuances. Not to mention, I mostly ignored political/world events till just the last year or two. Although, I thought Bush was lying from the moment he started saying "Mass Weapons of Destruction" - and then he used that to bring in troops. I guess we've been there ever since in one form or another. I may not know what the agenda is at any given moment, but I pretty much discount any noble-sounding cause like - "helping the Kurds" or "protecting the people from this bad dictator". That people in the Middle East don't trust us in the West is certainly not surprising to me. I'm sad about that, because we're mostly nice people and you are mostly nice people; it's our leaders who bring us into trouble with each other.

I've heard that suggestion about oil refineries before. I suppose it's money that prevents any real action being taken on a resource that might seriously hamper ISIS in their aggression. Is it to the benefit of Westerners to maintain those oil refineries, or perhaps some of the Middle Eastern powers, such as Saudi Arabia? I really don't know the answer to this question.

How would I personally feel if the US approached Saudi Arabia instead of Canada to help them sort out some war somewhere? Most likely, relieved. But, if you meant that the US was being actively invaded in such a way that Canada would be next, then I would want to help them and could care less if they also invited Saudi to help. But I don't want to help the US impose their military "solutions" around the world any more.

[Rue]

Why should I "hide" my agenda ? Do you think everyone acts like "Israelis" ? We are Muslims. Dont compare with yourself.

No, no more then I think everyone acts like "Muslims" or "Turks" or any other group you want to assign values to as you do Israelis.

You mistake me for you. I don't come on hear making generalizations about all Muslims or Turks as you have with Israelis, Zionists and

Jews.

As for your comment "We are Muslims", that's nice. I don't doubt you attaching yourself to a larger group empowers you and makes you feel

strong and mighty.

Now me, the fact I am a member of the Jewish collective is not a religious concept. Its a political and cultural one based on

a shared defense against people who hate Jews because we are Jews. Its not based on religion.

I don't get strength from groups. I get any identity I have from looking inside not to others.

"We Muslims"? Uh yah. "We." Until of course those Muslims don't share your beliefs....then what...are they "we" Muslims when you disagree with them or do they become something ese. Do tell.

Who you kidding. In your world when a Muslim doesn't share your version of what it means to be a Muslim, you say they are no longer Muslims.

You deny that?

Do you embrace Muslims who believe Jews have a right to a Jewish nation? Do you embrace feminist Muslims, gay Muslims, Muslims who reject the concept of dhimmitude, who reject the concept of Muhammed being the only source of truth? Of course you do.

Do tell me do you welcome Amidyah Muslims as true Muslims How about Ismailis. How about Unitarian Muslims? Hmmm?

Yah yah its one big happy family of "we" Muslims.

In my world you put 2 Jews in the same room, you get no we you get a debate over what we means.

In your world I just bet its one big happy family. In my family its so loud at the dinner table I doubt you could hear the diference between we, me and pee.

In my world "we" is a myth. Its a myth used when people feel endangered and weak.

In my world joining a group for strength is pack behaviour.

I get that. Humans are simeon apes. We are pack animals. We like joining packs and following Alpha males.

Sorry not me. I swing to my own vine Altai. Never met a pack that would take me as a member I would really want to join.

Not human packs anyways.

I have no problems hanging with dogs, cats, horses, dolphins, whales, birds, wildlife. Animals I can handle. They don't lie.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Rue