"Put Britain First" - Right Wing Extremism on the rise

[Guest]

In case you are still unsure about the motives of the murderer, when asked to state his name he responded 'death to traitors freedom for Britain'.

Hope that removes any doubt for you now.

I was never really unsure. Others pointed to things that put the issue in doubt but my position was that he was a Brexit supporter, right from the start. That said, it would be remiss of me to not consider all the evidence. Surely one doesn't want to jump to conclusions based on the suspected motives of the person, and the group he may or may not represent, if there is any doubt.

Do I detect from your post that you are a little doubtful of my neutrality on this?

Edited June 18, 2016 by bcsapper

[Guest]

I wish I could post this image (I'm on iPad), but a friend had posted the difference between the subway Muslim killer on the front page of a British newspaper with bloody hands, with the caption of "bloody hands, hatred in his eyes" contrasted with Mair who is pictured subdued with the caption of "timid gardener with mental turmoil".

And yet, somehow, word got out the fellow didn't give his real name when asked. Heads should roll...

[GostHacked]

Because Roof was not acting on behalf of any political group that took credit for his actions (he was disowned by everyone that he claimed association with). ISIL claimed responsibility for Omar. That makes it terrorism. Terrorism requires more than the fantasies of a single deluded person.

ISIS would claim responsibility because it helps their agenda even if they had nothing to do with it at all. Lots of dog wagging here.

[Guest]

ISIS would claim responsibility because it helps their agenda even if they had nothing to do with it at all. Lots of dog wagging here.

Agreed. ISIS would claim responsibility for my toothache if they thought anyone listen. I doubt very much that a connection can be made going from ISIS to the Orlando shooter. A connection going the other way is up to the shooter, of course.

[?Impact]

The political group Britain First should be declared a terrorist organization.

IMAGE LINK

Edited June 18, 2016 by Michael Hardner
IMAGE LINK ADDED

[Guest]

The political group Britain First should be declared a terrorist organization.

So let me get this straight. Belonging to a group and committing a terrorist act means that that group must be identified as a terrorist organisation? That group must take responsibility for your actions?

Just because you associate yourself with their beliefs? Even if many of them don't support what you did. Even if many of them are actually horrified by what you did.

Are you sure about this?

[?Impact]

That group must take responsibility for your actions?

That does seem to be the common sentiment, my friend Donald told me so.

[Guest]

That does seem to be the common sentiment, my friend Donald told me so.

Not me, though. And I'm fairly sure not you either.

Edited June 18, 2016 by bcsapper

[Argus]

"Nationalism"?

Call it what it really is, Argus:

It's 'WHITE Nationalism' ... aka white supremacy.

LOL. The Europeans are mostly White, which I know you despise them for, but their nationalism is based on a desire to protect their countries and cultures. As I said, and as the story you didn't bother to read pointed out, lots of the resentment in the UK is over immigrants from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and other eastern European countries. Last time I checked I believe they're mostly White too.

And their attitudes are fairly mild compared to what one can read from many groups the Feminist Left cherishes, like Islamists and the racists of the Black Lives Matter crowd.

[jacee]

So let me get this straight. Belonging to a group and committing a terrorist act means that that group must be identified as a terrorist organisation? That group must take responsibility for your actions?

Just because you associate yourself with their beliefs? Even if many of them don't support what you did. Even if many of them are actually horrified by what you did.

Are you sure about this?

Martin Couture-Rouleau

Michael Zehaf-Bibeau

John Nuttall and Amanda Korody

All considered 'terrorists'.

All labelled Muslim 'converts'.

All had psychiatric problems.

None 'belonged' to ISIS or any other terrorist group.

Are they 'political'?

Are they 'terrorists'?

If someone shouts "Allah...", is Islam responsible?

.

[Argus]

Martin Couture-Rouleau

Michael Zehaf-Bibeau

John Nuttall and Amanda Korody

All considered 'terrorists'.

All labelled Muslim 'converts'.

All had psychiatric problems.

When was the last time an identified Muslim terrorist was not described by Leftists as having psychological problems?

The Left cannot ever admit that extreme Islam, the religion they most admire, could produce religiously motivated violence.

And of course, you leave out that the British group has never called for killing anyone whereas many many, many, many, many, many Muslim clerics do so every day.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Argus

[Guest]

Martin Couture-Rouleau

Michael Zehaf-Bibeau

John Nuttall and Amanda Korody

All considered 'terrorists'.

All labelled Muslim 'converts'.

All had psychiatric problems.

None 'belonged' to ISIS or any other terrorist group.

Are they 'political'?

Are they 'terrorists'?

If someone shouts "Allah...", is Islam responsible?

.

You see that was the very point I was making, right?

If someone shouts Allah, they are responsible. If Allah is the reason, so be it.

[jacee]

LOL. The Europeans are mostly White, which I know you despise them for, but their nationalism is based on a desire to protect their countries and cultures. As I said, and as the story you didn't bother to read pointed out, lots of the resentment in the UK is over immigrants from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and other eastern European countries. Last time I checked I believe they're mostly White too.

And their attitudes are fairly mild compared to what one can read from many groups the Feminist Left cherishes, like Islamists and the racists of the Black Lives Matter crowd.

You make a good point.

It's 'white Anglo nationalism'.

It's also apparent that you can't grasp equal rights: Anyone who supports equal rights ... despises white people?

Hunh?!?

? ?

.

Edited June 18, 2016 by jacee

[jacee]

When was the last time an identified Muslim terrorist was not described by Leftists as having psychological problems?

When was the last time an identified Muslim terrorist in Canada did not have psychological problems?

.

Edited June 18, 2016 by jacee

[Argus]

It's also apparent that you can't grasp equal rights: Anyone who supports equal rights ... despises white people?

Hunh?!?

You don't support equal rights.

[jacee]

You don't support equal rights.

Nonsense.

.

[jacee]

You see that was the very point I was making, right?

If someone shouts Allah, they are responsible. If Allah is the reason, so be it.

Really?

God (Christianity) is responsible for Anders Bering Breivik's murders because ...

"he stated that he planned to pray to God for help during his attacks." ??

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

[Argus]

When was the last time an identified Muslim terrorist in Canada did not have psychological problems?.

Given you assign them psychological problems the instant you hear they're Muslims, I suppose never.

Of course, none of them were diagnosed by psychiatrists, but I know that doesn't worry you.

[Guest]

Really?

God (Christianity) is responsible for Anders Bering Breivik's murders because ...

"he stated that he planned to pray to God for help during his attacks." ??

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

God was not responsible. God does not exist so it would have been hard pressed to be responsible. God might well have been the reason though. Breivik's God, such as his beliefs went.

Allah does not exist either, but it is sure as hell the reason behind a lot of awful stuff that happens. Because some awful people believe it does exist, and they believe they know what it wants.

Edited June 18, 2016 by bcsapper

[Argus]

Allah does not exist either, but it is sure as hell the reason behind a lot of awful stuff that happens. Because some awful people believe it does exist, and they believe they know what it wants.

Conquest, and blood and death to anyone who does not worship Allah in precisely the same way as them.

[-1=e^ipi]

Agreed. If it is shown that the killer of Jo Cox did actually shout "Britain First" I would be more inclined to describe him as terrorist than the Orlando shooter. His motive seems to have been a religion inspired hatred of homosexuals with connections to ISIS as an afterthought.

Zehaf-Bibeau wasn't the Orlando shooter...

The Orlando shooter should be considered a terrorist since he was targeting the civilian population. You don't have the ambiguity of if MPs count as civilians or not.

[-1=e^ipi]

Nonsense.

We know you don't. For example, you don't support abolition of the reserve system / Indian act to make everyone equal under the law. You support employment discrimination based on race/sex.

Also, what are your positions on abolition of the monarchy, moving towards proportional representation so a person in PEI doesn't have over 20x the say as a person in BC, or moving towards gender neutral bathrooms?

[Guest]

Zehaf-Bibeau wasn't the Orlando shooter...

The Orlando shooter should be considered a terrorist since he was targeting the civilian population. You don't have the ambiguity of if MPs count as civilians or not.

Yeah, I should have deleted all but your last sentence. I know the Orlando shooter was called Mateen. I just used that as an example because it was what this event was being most compared to.

[TimG]

ISIS would claim responsibility because it helps their agenda even if they had nothing to do with it at all. Lots of dog wagging here.

Does not change my point: a person acting on their own cannot be said to be acting 'political aims' because there is no threat of future attacks. A group condoning the attack and promising more is necessary requirement before any act can be called terrorism.

Aside: say what you will about ISIL but they have been particularily effective in inspiring attacks by independent agents so when they promise more it is a real threat.

Edited June 19, 2016 by TimG

[cybercoma]

"Britain First" has never advocated violence as means to achieve its political aims so someone shouting those words as they kill someone has no significance beyond the rantings of a crazy person. OTOH, various Islamist groups regularly promote and participate in violence so a killer shouting 'Allahu Akbar' does have a significance beyond the individual carrying out the act.

Not even 10 f***ing posts in.