America under President Trump

bush_cheney2004 · October 9, 2019

3 minutes ago, Rue said:

Why would anyone using the reasoning Trump now does, consider any alliance with the US anything but shallow and temporary and subject to immediate change?

Because they might be weak ass NATO deadbeats ?

WestCanMan · October 10, 2019

2 minutes ago, Rue said:

Are you referring to the noise of Turkey massacring Kurds because Trump says finding allies is easy or said the Kurds were not allies of the US in WW2? Canada was an ally of the US in WW2, so was Britain and both support having trained and worked along side Kurdish forces to defeat ISIS as did the US. Do you have a point? How is throwing the Kurds under the bus justified. How does it promote trust in working with the US if it quickly turns on its allies? Why would anyone using the reasoning Trump now does, consider any alliance with the US anything but shallow and temporary and subject to immediate change?

Are you guys really that partisan in favour of Trump you justify turning your back on an ally that fought side by side it? Are you really going to tell me the Kurds are Stalinists no better than Isis? You really want to ignore what is happening to them in Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran and write them all off like Bush has, as Stalinist bad guys?

Man oh man you Trump loyalists go to absurd lengths to justify his deranged lunatic thought processes.

Dude I just mentioned a few posts back how hard it is to keep track of who is on who's side, and that the Turks have accused the Kurds of terrorism. I am not down with helping isis-light defeat isis.

I won't pretend to know that's for certain, even if Fox and CNN both agree on it, because I just don't believe anything that I don't see for myself anymore. We hear what they want to tell us and that's it.

Rue - think back to Afghanistan, and how firmly we chose one side over the Taliban. The Taliban were killing girls for going to school, so we were fighting on the side of the guys whose generals keep young boys as sex slaves.

Honestly? Did we have to choose a side there? Was it worth it for our young soldiers to die over there to protect people like that?

Here's my position, which sounds a lot like Trump's original dual position on Iraq. I don't want troops to go over there. I say let them at each other. But if we do go over, I want to win so our troops can come home.

Rue · October 10, 2019

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Iraq did it too. Didn't they gas 300,000 of them?

Irag, Iran, Syria and Turkey, yes, they all have engaged in massacres against Kurds. So what is your point? Do you have one? How does that justify Trump or any leader of a nation that claims to have the moral high road in fighting terror justify abandoning a people that was their ally fighting terrorists? If the Kurds were as you Trump loyalists argue as bad as the Russians why did the US het in bed with them? What you are arguing is-oh sure we knew the Kurds were bad, we just used them...really that is your argument....that is your moral high ground for fighting terrorists, you will use anyone? Is that what has become of the concept of morality for you Trump supporters-its whatever suits your needs at the moment? Isn't that precisely the point-that Trump is immoral precisely because he does what ever he thinks is best for his own self? How is that the vision of a democracy? How is that what nations envision and share others to follow? How does a whore like Trump who has no morals and insults anyone and anything and questions their integrity have any?

How does the leader of the free world accuse a people faced with genocide in Turkey of having it easy and that's why they allied with the US as he did? Are you really that blind to what he has done in the last day or so?

Do you have any idea what now happens? Erdogan is free now...he has a green light to finish what Iraq, Syria and Iran started.

I have always criticized Netanyahu in Israel for being too close to Trump and now I say why. How does the US giving the green light to massacre Kurds bode well for Israel? What makes them think Trump won't do the same thing to Israel? He has no allies. He's turned on everyone and anyone in the name of his ego. There is no distinction between US foreign policy and Trump's delusions as to who is useful to him personally in terms of bolstering his ego.

He is out of control and has rendered any vestige of remaining trust in his country gone. I now predict the people propping him, the US Armed Forces network of high command have no choice but to distance themselves. Disgracing their soldiers as he did asking them to abandon a loyal ally will not fly with honourable American soldiers who were in Syria. There will be a closed door backlash on this one. The US Armed Forces do not abandon their allies as Trump has.

For anyone who wants to label Kurds terrorists, where were you when the Canadian Armed Forces sent by Trudeau trained them and fought side by side them defeating ISIL? Did you condemn Trudeau for getting into bed with them? Now suddenly you want to turn Kurds into terrorists?

bush_cheney2004 · October 10, 2019

Turkey ( a real NATO ally) permitted the U.S. to base combat operations from its air bases during multiple conflicts.

Turkey = Jupiter missiles for JFK

Last time I checked, the Kurds had no NATO air bases.

Why doesn't Canada help the Kurds ?

1) Canada can't help.

2) Canada won't help.

Rue · October 10, 2019

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Dude I just mentioned a few posts back how hard it is to keep track of who is on who's side, and that the Turks have accused the Kurds of terrorism. I am not down with helping isis-light defeat isis.

I won't pretend to know that's for certain, even if Fox and CNN both agree on it, because I just don't believe anything that I don't see for myself anymore. We hear what they want to tell us and that's it.

Rue - think back to Afghanistan, and how firmly we chose one side over the Taliban. The Taliban were killing girls for going to school, so we were fighting on the side of the guys whose generals keep young boys as sex slaves.

Honestly? Did we have to choose a side there? Was it worth it for our young soldiers to die over there to protect people like that?

Here's my position, which sounds a lot like Trump's original dual position on Iraq. I don't want troops to go over there. I say let them at each other. But if we do go over, I want to win so our troops can come home.

Thank you I get that, see my other post. You make good points. I do understand the Kurds are not all angels and alliances are fluid but to turn your back on them this fast is wrong. Also the Taliban were called the Mujahadeen. They were just fine being fundamentalist Muslims as long as they fought Russians. Here is the point. They only became enemies not because of their fundamentalist Muslim views about life and women, but when they refused to let the US tell them what to do.

Ask Canadian soldiers why they have ptsd. The people raping the boys in broad day light as normal recreational activity the soldiers were told to ignore were not Taliban they were pro US allies. The poppy growers who the Taliban stopped, were put back in by the US and that is why the Taliban resurfaced. The Taliban when they were Mujahadeen were not screwing boys in the ass and raping girls out in the open as it is today in Kabul.

Yah our priorities are phacked Wes. The only reason anyone went into Afghanistan was because its full of Lithium. Now no one knows how to get the Lithium out at this time given how impossible it would be to police the rail ways needed to get it out.

As for our soldiers, they went in to protect innocent civilians not justify drug lords, pedophiles, fundamentalist Islam, just basic moral decency. They did not fail, our politicians did using them and telling them to look the other way no differently than Koffe Anan and the UN ordered Canadian soldiers to look the other way as a genocide transpired in front of their eyes they felt they could have stopped because of political considerations, the same ones Trump now engages in to justify abandoning Kurds.

I do respect your points. I get them.

WestCanMan · October 10, 2019

Just now, Rue said:

Irag, Iran, Syria and Turkey, yes, they all have engaged in massacres against Kurds. So what is your point? Do you have one? How does that justify Trump or any leader of a nation that claims to have the moral high road in fighting terror justify abandoning a people that was their ally fighting terrorists? If the Kurds were as you Trump loyalists argue as bad as the Russians why did the US het in bed with them? What you are arguing is-oh sure we knew the Kurds were bad, we just used them...really that is your argument....that is your moral high ground for fighting terrorists, you will use anyone? Is that what has become of the concept of morality for you Trump supporters-its whatever suits your needs at the moment? Isn't that precisely the point-that Trump is immoral precisely because he does what ever he thinks is best for his own self? How is that the vision of a democracy? How is that what nations envision and share others to follow? How does a whore like Trump who has no morals and insults anyone and anything and questions their integrity have any?

How does the leader of the free world accuse a people faced with genocide in Turkey of having it easy and that's why they allied with the US as he did? Are you really that blind to what he has done in the last day or so?

Do you have any idea what now happens? Erdogan is free now...he has a green light to finish what Iraq, Syria and Iran started.

I have always criticized Netanyahu in Israel for being too close to Trump and now I say why. How does the US giving the green light to massacre Kurds bode well for Israel? What makes them think Trump won't do the same thing to Israel? He has no allies. He's turned on everyone and anyone in the name of his ego. There is no distinction between US foreign policy and Trump's delusions as to who is useful to him personally in terms of bolstering his ego.

He is out of control and has rendered any vestige of remaining trust in his country gone. I now predict the people propping him, the US Armed Forces network of high command have no choice but to distance themselves. Disgracing their soldiers as he did asking them to abandon a loyal ally will not fly with honourable American soldiers who were in Syria. There will be a closed door backlash on this one. The US Armed Forces do not abandon their allies as Trump has.

For anyone who wants to label Kurds terrorists, where were you when the Canadian Armed Forces sent by Trudeau trained them and fought side by side them defeating ISIL? Did you condemn Trudeau for getting into bed with them? Now suddenly you want to turn Kurds into terrorists?

Trump wants the world to see Turkey for what they are, and that won't happen with the US standing in their way.

Turkey seems like they could actually be more of a danger to the west as a frenemy than they are as a military foe.

This might be an exercise in building resolve. I think this situation is going to backfire on Erdogan if he's not careful.

Cannucklehead · October 10, 2019

Wasn't the u.s. in this exact same situation when Bush was a C.I.A. operative who helped train Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to fight off the Russians?

Turned out really great.

WestCanMan · October 10, 2019

2 minutes ago, Rue said:

Thank you I get that, see my other post. You make good points. I do understand the Kurds are not all angels and alliances are fluid but to turn your back on them this fast is wrong. Also the Taliban were called the Mujahadeen. They were just fine being fundamentalist Muslims as long as they fought Russians. Here is the point. They only became enemies not because of their fundamentalist Muslim views about life and women, but when they refused to let the US tell them what to do.

Ask Canadian soldiers why they have ptsd. The people raping the boys in broad day light as normal recreational activity the soldiers were told to ignore were not Taliban they were pro US allies. The poppy growers who the Taliban stopped, were put back in by the US and that is why the Taliban resurfaced. The Taliban when they were Mujahadeen were not screwing boys in the ass and raping girls out in the open as it is today in Kabul.

Yah our priorities are phacked Wes. The only reason anyone went into Afghanistan was because its full of Lithium. Now no one knows how to get the Lithium out at this time given how impossible it would be to police the rail ways needed to get it out.

As for our soldiers, they went in to protect innocent civilians not justify drug lords, pedophiles, fundamentalist Islam, just basic moral decency. They did not fail, our politicians did using them and telling them to look the other way no differently than Koffe Anan and the UN ordered Canadian soldiers to look the other way as a genocide transpired in front of their eyes they felt they could have stopped because of political considerations, the same ones Trump now engages in to justify abandoning Kurds.

I do respect your points. I get them.

Lithium, oil, heroin.... Afghanistan is full of raw materials that flow like cash. It's like a degenerate mining planet in a sci-fi movie.

Cannucklehead · October 10, 2019

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Lithium, oil, heroin.... Afghanistan is full of raw materials that flow like cash. It's like a degenerate mining planet in a sci-fi movie.

Trading american lives for money. Yeah, you'd make a really great leader.

WestCanMan · October 10, 2019

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Turkey ( a real NATO ally) permitted the U.S. to base combat operations from its air bases during multiple conflicts.

Turkey = Jupiter missiles for JFK

Last time I checked, the Kurds had no NATO air bases.

Why doesn't Canada help the Kurds ?

1) Canada can't help.

2) Canada won't help.

Sun Tzu knew the high cost of fighting in far away wars. The relative ease of building fighting spirit on home turf. Entering a foreign war is not something to be done lightly.

Trump knows the cost too. He's a businessman.

But the US has more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined and bases all over the planet. They also have drones, cruise missiles, stealth fighters/bombers, etc. Their cost to fight in a distant war is far lower because they can do far more with no boots on the ground than we can do with our entire armed forces.

Like I said before, this is probably about building resolve, and giving Turkey enough rope to hang themselves. If there's a real foreign war you know Canada will be there B_C. You know that you're being a bit of an ass right now.

Rue · October 10, 2019

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Turkey ( a real NATO ally) permitted the U.S. to base combat operations from its air bases during multiple conflicts.

Turkey = Jupiter missiles for JFK

Last time I checked, the Kurds had no NATO air bases.

Why doesn't Canada help the Kurds ?

1) Canada can't help.

2) Canada won't help.

Excuse me Canada fought side by side the Kurds in Iraq and trained their soldiers.

Next you call Turkey a real ally of the US and NATO and refer back to the cold war with JFK really?

What planet are you on Mam, here is the one I am on:

https://www.inss.org.il/publication/erdogans-threat-on-nuclear-militarization/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/18/recep-tayyip-erdogan-turns-turkey-away-us/

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/erdogans-turkey-no-american-ally-40987

You guys want to use WW2 analogies and equate Kurds with Russians, then its fair to say Trump is appeasing a Hitler in looking the other way with Erdogan-its another US isolationist apology only its not for Hitler this time, its for Erdogan. Isolationism and appeasement is what you want? It fuels dictators and their massacres.

https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/erdogans-anti-western-backlash-strains-ties-with-eu-us-7938605

Here is the world I live in. The US has to decide who its allies are in the Middle East real fast. The cold hard reality is Netanyahu can not stay a loyal ally to Trump if Trump cozies up to Erdogan and neither will Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the UAE all who consider Turkey's leader as dangerous and negative to the area as Iran if not more so.

Even Netanyahu was forced to go public and challenge Erdogan as an anti-Semite although he tried to stay quiet. He had no choice. No the Middle East allies of the US will not welcome its turning its back on Erdogan anymore than they would if he turned his back on Iran. Erdogan is an ally of the failed Muslim Brotherhood attempt to take over Egypt, Tunisia, and replace the monarchies loyal to the US in Saudi Arabia, UAE and Jordan.

That does not make Erdogan a real ally or any ally any more than Trump's getting into bed with North Korea or Russia has made them allies although no doubt in the minds of you Trump groupies it does.

WestCanMan · October 10, 2019

3 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Trading american lives for money. Yeah, you'd make a really great leader.

I didn't say that we had to go there to get the goods. We have enough in the ground to suit ourselves.

I'm just not going to pretend to be blind to the fact that some of the reasons for our troops being there might not have been entirely altruistic. I personally didn't want our troops there at all once I knew what the "good guys" over there were like.

And you truly do lack the intelligence and foresight to be a leader cannucklehead. The fact that you think the opposite of what I do isn't a source of concern for me.

WestCanMan · October 10, 2019

14 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Wasn't the u.s. in this exact same situation when Bush was a C.I.A. operative who helped train Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to fight off the Russians?

Turned out really great.

It was a learning experience. Seems like every crop of anti-terrorists we train over there turn into terrorists as soon as they get a bit of power.

That's actually the true test of character Ch. What a person does with power. And everyone who gets power in the middle east does the same thing.

That's why I didn't like training the Kurds.

DogOnPorch · October 10, 2019

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's why I didn't like training the Kurds.

Muslim AND Communists. What could go wrong?

Rue · October 10, 2019

11 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Wasn't the u.s. in this exact same situation when Bush was a C.I.A. operative who helped train Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to fight off the Russians?

Turned out really great.

They were not Al Quaeda, they were the Mujahadeen. In fact the Mujahadeen hated Al Quaeda and did not ally with them ever and in fact still fight them. Al Quaeda is a Turkish-iUS-Saudi financed mercenary creation formed from a conglomeration of Arab terror cells by recruiting young Muslims from many countries. It was supposed to depose Gaddafi in Libya, then take the confiscated Libyan military weapons and proceed to kill off Assad in Syria. There were supposed to be Muslim Brotherhood leaders placed in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt and Syria. Morsi did come to power in Egypt and Obama's cousin was the chief financial officer raising money for the Sudanese military regime that sided with the Muslim Brotherhood which Obama was a full supporter and member of to the point he placed 10 Muslim brotherhood officials in his Presidential office and Deputies in the FBI and CIA to rewrite manuals to edit out the word Muslim from any reports on terrorists. Morsi was disposed by the Egyptian military when he tried to incite Muslims to commit mass murder against Coptic Christians and opened the Egyptian border to movement of Muslim terror cells not fighting Assad but bent on destroying Saudi Arabia, Israel and Jordan. Erdogan does not believe in Arab monarchies. He has always been a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama's allies which want all monarchies replaced. He has had an on and off alliance with Iran and Russia flipping and flopping back and forth and turning on them as fast as he has allied with them depending on his needs in the immediate moment when fighting either Assad or the Kurds who he hates as much as he does Israel, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Jordan and Israel. He has never ever been an ally of the US. He has openly criticized the US because he considered only Obama his ally.

Rue · October 10, 2019

6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Muslim AND Communists. What could go wrong?

Yes but Kurds are neither Muslim nor Communist and are hated equally by both. In that sense they are the closest thing to Jews without being Jews so as a Jew I admit my moral bias in support of them. They face identical problems and it is why even Netanyahu who did not want to alienate Turkey because of NATO had to speak out against Erdogan's treatment of Kurds. There is only so much the West can overlook when a dictator like Erdogan starts massacring innocent civilians, arresting all his journalists and placing thousands in jail for having the nerve to express disagreement with him. He is a dictator pure and simple no different than a Putin or the fat boy in North Korea so if Trump embraces him now and all you Trump groupies look the other way as you have with his alliances with Putin and Fatboy Kim, all I say is, you are in dream land defending this odious demented sob.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Rue

Rue · October 10, 2019

15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's why I didn't like training the Kurds.

Did you? I would prefer Canadian soldiers who trained the Kurds and fought with them speak for themselves. I defer to their opinion not my own or yours. I think you and I for the sake of discussion on the forum have our opinions but I defer to those soldiers who fought with them.

DogOnPorch · October 10, 2019

1 minute ago, Rue said:

Kurds are neither Muslim nor Communist

Kurds are generally Sunni with a smattering of other sects/faiths. Salidin the Great was a Kurd, for example. The military bit is indeed Communist. The YPG is the military wing of 'Democratic Union Party'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Union_Party_(Syria)

bush_cheney2004 · October 10, 2019

32 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Like I said before, this is probably about building resolve, and giving Turkey enough rope to hang themselves. If there's a real foreign war you know Canada will be there B_C. You know that you're being a bit of an ass right now.

You are damn right I am being a bit of an ass right now....Canada left Syria and the Kurds long ago. WTF ?

Same old crap...Canada writing checks with its virtue signaling mouth that it wants the U.S. military to cash....and keep on cashing.

Eff that....Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do in Syria...leave.

bush_cheney2004 · October 10, 2019

34 minutes ago, Rue said:

Excuse me Canada fought side by side the Kurds in Iraq and trained their soldiers.

Next you call Turkey a real ally of the US and NATO and refer back to the cold war with JFK really?

Then Canada promptly left....what part of Canada leaving do you not understand ?

Quote

Here is the world I live in. The US has to decide who its allies are in the Middle East real fast. The cold hard reality is Netanyahu can not stay a loyal ally to Trump if Trump cozies up to Erdogan and neither will Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the UAE all who consider Turkey's leader as dangerous and negative to the area as Iran if not more so.

Guess what...the U.S. has a lot more going on than conflicts that Canada can't even solve in its wet dreams, even if it wanted to. Canada abandoned the Kurds over three years ago !

Quote

That does not make Erdogan a real ally or any ally any more than Trump's getting into bed with North Korea or Russia has made them allies although no doubt in the minds of you Trump groupies it does.

It's not about Erdogan....Turkey is a NATO ally, same as Canada. Difference is that Canada is a deadbeat, and Turkey is not.

Rue · October 10, 2019

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You are damn right I am being a bit of an ass right now....Canada left Syria and the Kurds long ago. WTF ?

Same old crap...Canada writing checks with its virtue signaling mouth that it wants the U.S. military to cash....and keep on cashing.

Eff that....Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do in Syria...leave.

He is abandoning Kurds not just leaving Syria. His soldiers could have withdrawn without exposing the Kurds as he did. I doubt anyone of the soldiers he ordered out agreed with him. I do not know a soldier who would deliberately abandon his allies unless he was a coward. Unlike Trump his soldiers are not cowards.

bush_cheney2004 · October 10, 2019

Just now, Rue said:

He is abandoning Kurds not just leaving Syria. His soldiers could have withdrawn without exposing the Kurds as he did. I doubt anyone of the soldiers he ordered out agreed with him. I do not know a soldier who would deliberately abandon his allies unless he was a coward. Unlike Trump his soldiers are not cowards.

Canada abandoned them over three years ago...cowards ?

Syria is the hell hole it deserves to be, and the Kurds are opportunists seeking their own interests and independent state.

Trump is not a soldier, but he still did a lot more than Obama.

bush_cheney2004 · October 10, 2019

How Canada abandoned the Kurds...cut and ran away from a complex battle space it could no longer manage. Now it was Trump's problem....bye bye Canada !

Quote

Ottawa finally began to catch on to Kurdistan’s power struggles in early 2017. In public statements, its language shifted away from support for the Kurds, who had all but dropped out of the fight by then, to the more ambiguous “Iraqi security forces.” Canada’s advisory mission also shifted focus. Special forces, increased to 200 by the Liberals a year earlier, were deployed into Mosul alongside the Iraqi army. And the weapons transfer never materialized.

... The move came as no surprise to Zeravani commanders. On Oct. 24, on a tour of their operations in Khazr, anger toward the Canadians was palpable.

But now everything had changed. ISIS was defeated and the Canadians were long gone. Zeravani front-line positions, a mere seven kilometres to the west, were now facing off against Iraq’s Golden Division and Hashd al-Shaabi militia.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/how-the-push-to-defeat-isis-sparked-a-new-battle-in-iraq/

Edited October 10, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

Rue · October 10, 2019

15 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Kurds are generally Sunni with a smattering of other sects/faiths. Salidin the Great was a Kurd, for example. The military bit is indeed Communist. The YPG is the military wing of 'Democratic Union Party'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Union_Party_(Syria)

https://thekurdishproject.org/history-and-culture/kurdistan-religion/

Hang on. Their version of Sunni Islam is completely different. They do not consider themselves "Muslims" in the same sense as other Sunni Muslims precisely because they have been targeted by other Sunni Muslims. The analogy would be similar to the Amidyah of Pakistan who have been subject to great hardship by other Muslims (except Ismaili).

Yes they descendants of the Medes and are said to have moved into the Middle East 4,000 years ago and Salah Ad-Din Yusuf was a Kurd. The Kurds in fact first resisted the Islamic invasion during the seventh century AD .. Most Kurds are now Sunni Muslims with one-fifth Shi'ite. Kurds can also be Sufi , Alawi (the minority sect Assad of Syria is in), Jewish, Christian and Yazidi.

Their culture is completely different than the Sunni Muslims of the Arab world or Muslim Sharia law states, Pakistan, Indonesia, African Muslim states, Shiite Muslims in Lebanon, Iran or the Sunnis in Pakistan or Bangladesh. It is that cultural difference that has caused them to be persecuted by both Sunni and Shiite Muslim majorities in countries where they have lived.

So do not lump them in with people who persecute them simply because they follow Islamic beliefs. They do not use the word "Muslim" to define their collective identity, they use the word "Kurd". Other Muslims would use the word "Muslim" not them. Just like Amidyah Muslims also the target of persecution by other Muslims refer to themselves as Amidyah in their description. That is what I should have made more clear. Thank you.

Cannucklehead · October 10, 2019

5 minutes ago, Rue said:

https://thekurdishproject.org/history-and-culture/kurdistan-religion/

Hang on. Their version of Sunni Islam is completely different. They do not consider themselves "Muslims" in the same sense as other Sunni Muslims precisely because they have been targeted by other Sunni Muslims. The analogy would be similar to the Amidyah of Pakistan who have been subject to great hardship by other Muslims (except Ismaili).

Yes they descendants of the Medes and are said to have moved into the Middle East 4,000 years ago and Salah Ad-Din Yusuf was a Kurd. The Kurds in fact first resisted the Islamic invasion during the seventh century AD .. Most Kurds are now Sunni Muslims with one-fifth Shi'ite. Kurds can also be Sufi , Alawi (the minority sect Assad of Syria is in), Jewish, Christian and Yazidi.

Their culture is completely different than the Sunni Muslims of the Arab world or Muslim Sharia law states, Pakistan, Indonesia, African Muslim states, Shiite Muslims in Lebanon, Iran or the Sunnis in Pakistan or Bangladesh. It is that cultural difference that has caused them to be persecuted by both Sunni and Shiite Muslim majorities in countries where they have lived.

So do not lump them in with people who persecute them simply because they follow Islamic beliefs. They do not use the word "Muslim" to define their collective identity, they use the word "Kurd". Other Muslims would use the word "Muslim" not them. Just like Amidyah Muslims also the target of persecution by other Muslims refer to themselves as Amidyah in their description. That is what I should have made more clear. Thank you.