Behavior Contracts Not For Sexual Assault

[Bryan]

Bryan how about you address the bigger issue of women being afraid to come forward. Why aren't you up in arms about that?

Weren't you one of the people actively mocking the very idea of unreported crime not long ago?

For me, it's the same answer. Some people are guilty, they should be made accountable for their actions.

[cybercoma]

This has been studied to death, unlike the more generalized rampant crime waves that demand more prisons and harsher laws that Conseevathves like you were peddling. Research into sexual assault have shown that for every 100 assaults only 6 victims come forward. You go ahead and ignore that, but you look awfully foolish when you're talking about false reports but not the 94% which go unprosecuted. This is a well known issue amongst anyone who knows anything about sexual assault and it's not something new.

I never once said there's no such thing as unreported crime. I said it's pure fantasy to claim the CRIME RATE IS INCREASING without some evidence for it. Evidence which no one has provided. I'm not claiming sexual assault rates are INCREASING. I'm telling you that there is a large number of unreported sexual assaults that you clearly don't give a crap about. You've shown over and over that you're more concerned about men being wrongfully accused than rapists getting away despite the facts that the former is incredibly rare (less than 2% of the cases) whilst the latter is extremely common (96% of in incidents). Those numbers are freely available from the Canadian government if you want a source, but let's be honestit doesn't matter because you'd rather argue to protect rapists then argue for the victims who never receive justice. And isn't it ironic that the people doing this fall along conservative partisan lines.

[WestCoastRunner]

Here we go again. Brandon University has different processes for conflict resolution for students and staff. The intent is to resolve a situation where both the complainant and the accused would be allowed to finish out their schooling without one or both being suspended or dismissed.

A young lady student at Brandon approached the University with allegations of sexual assault against another student. The student was advised to report the incident to the police. The student did so, the police found no grounds to pursue a criminal charges so the University had both students sign a "behavior contract". Basically, they agreed to not contact each other and to not "bad mouth" each other or to make any accusations. Their future communications were to be with a counselor.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/brandon-university-behavioural-contract-1.3520568

I do not.

I feel both parties have just as much credibility and should be held to the same standard.

It is interesting to see what process the University will now use to resolve a "he said, she said" assault case where the police found no evidence to prosecute - and still allow both students to finish their schooling.

Universities are in the business of protecting their brand and future endowments so they will do whatever is necessary to achieve that.

The following are statistics from the documentary "The Hunting Ground". While it is based on campuses in the United States, they are reflective of the issues here in Canada as well. So, BC, save your post for another thread.

• In 2013 nearly 60 percent of donations of more than 100 million dollars made to universities came from fraternity alumni
• More than 100 colleges and universities are currently under federal investigation for their handling of sexual assault complaints
• In 2012 55% of colleges reported sexual assaults

• More than 16% of college women are sexually assaulted while in college

• 95% of college presidents say their institutions handle sexual assault reports “appropriately"
• Sexual assault is the 2^nd most type of insurance claim against a fraternity
• Harvard University 2009-2013 – 135 reported sexual assaults – 10 reported suspensions
• University of Blerkley 2008-2013 - 78 reported sexual assaults – 3 expulsions
• Dartmouth College 2002-2013 - 155 reported sexual assaults – 3 expulsions
• Stanford University 1996-2013 - 259 reported sexual assaults – 1 expulsion
• Univeristy of North Carolina 2001-2013 136 reported sexual assaults – 0 expulsions
• University of Virginia 1998-2013 – 205 reported sexual assaults - 0 expulsions, 183 expulsions for cheating and other honor board violations
• % of false sexual assault claims found to be false between 2-8% (studied by researchers around the world)
• 88% of women sexually assaulted on campus do not report

[Big Guy]

Universities are in the business of protecting their brand and future endowments so they will do whatever is necessary to achieve that.

The following are statistics from the documentary "The Hunting Ground". While it is based on campuses in the United States, they are reflective of the issues here in Canada as well. So, BC, save your post for another thread.

I do not, could not, nor desire to dispute those stats. But, so what?

What alternative do you suggest that would give equal credibility in a "he said, she said" situation to both the accuser and the accused? What was the University to do?

I hope that you are not suggesting that the credibility of statements be based on the sex of the individual and a women accuser should be more believable than male accused? Credibility based on anatomy?

[bush_cheney2004]

....The following are statistics from the documentary "The Hunting Ground". While it is based on campuses in the United States, they are reflective of the issues here in Canada as well. So, BC, save your post for another thread.

Duke University is also a campus in the United States. If one is going to consume and champion American media on such topics as it applies to Canada, then why ignore another one ? Oh wait...I know why.

[Bryan]

I never once said there's no such thing as unreported crime.

And I never once said I wanted to protect rapists. In fact I quite clearly said that guilty people should be made accountable for their actions. Several times in this very thread.

[cybercoma]

And I never once said I wanted to protect rapists. In fact I quite clearly said that guilty people should be made accountable for their actions. Several times in this very thread.

If they're reported then they're not "guilty people."

[blueblood]

I think for the most part that men believe when their daughters acuse other men of sexual assault, however, it is a travesty that sexual assault cases on campus get treated more lightly then cheating on exams.

My question is why should the university get involved in the first place. Ideally she should go straight to the cops immediately after it happens. No messing around with university officials, go straight to cops so they have more evidence for trial.

Sex assaults are hell. Bad for a victim and bad for someone being falsely accused.

[cybercoma]

My question is why should the university get involved in the first place.

Why do workplaces get involved when there's harassment? Why do bouncers get involved at bars? Do you think mall security would get involved if you were harassing mall patrons?

A court case is not the benchmark for intervention.

[WestCoastRunner]

I do not, could not, nor desire to dispute those stats. But, so what?

What alternative do you suggest that would give equal credibility in a "he said, she said" situation to both the accuser and the accused? What was the University to do?

I hope that you are not suggesting that the credibility of statements be based on the sex of the individual and a women accuser should be more believable than male accused? Credibility based on anatomy?

I don't even get what your OP is about. Are you in agreement of this contract they have to sign or against it?

[WestCoastRunner]

My question is why should the university get involved in the first place. Ideally she should go straight to the cops immediately after it happens. No messing around with university officials, go straight to cops so they have more evidence for trial.

Sex assaults are hell. Bad for a victim and bad for someone being falsely accused.

These gag orders would prevent the victim from talking to anyone, even a hotline for sexual assault victims, let alone the police. The campus needs to be made aware of the sexual assault claim in order to impose suspensions etc if the claims are found to be true.

[Hal 9000]

Here is an interesting take from the G&M

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/should-universities-police-sexual-assault/article29570029/

[WestCoastRunner]

Here is an interesting take from the G&M

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/should-universities-police-sexual-assault/article29570029/

What do you think of the article? Can you provide your take on it?

[Hal 9000]

Well, i have seen Cyber's stats that they throw out every time the issue arises and i would agree that there are some sexual assaults that go unreported. I also believe that there are sexual assaults that are bogus claims - how many of each? We'll never know.

You see, we don't even know what sexual assault is anymore. Different articles and different people claiming stats all have a different take on what it actually is, just like sexual harassment and sexual discrimination. We have blurred lines so much that it has become all encompassing for some (like you) and meaningless for others. For example, what do you think this young man did to this girl? Was it a rude comment (nice rack, babe)? Or, was it a boogie grab? Was it a drunken one nighter or date rape? Does it even matter to you? Is this worth ruining some you kids education and life over? Maybe, but without knowing the details - we'll never get to honestly assess that question. I personally know females that have claimed sexual assault - even rape when they were pissed at their man, girls who extorted money from guys using the sexual assault, girls who woke up feeling guilty, girls who simply over-reacted to a bad joke or comment, unwanted advance. How about the woman a few years back who wanted an 8YO boy arrested for sneaking a kiss off a little girl? I knew one girl who got pregnant at 14 or 15 and told her parents she was raped - and even gave the guys name.

If the police can't find anything, then what makes you think the university is better equipped at handling such an issue? I know that you'd like to take every case and believe the woman 100% (because women never lie) and not even acknowledge the guys perspective, but really is that fair? The university has done the right thing - have them stay away from each other and put it behind them.

I know some assaults don't get reported, Is that because they're all scared, or is that maybe because many girls thought it wasn't really a big deal. If you question someone and ask if they've ever been cat called and they say yes, but they didn't care enough to report the incident- well well, what some will report is an unreported sexual assault - and logic tells us that many of cyber stats would reflect such incidents.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hal 9000

[WestCoastRunner]

Well, i have seen Cyber's stats that they throw out every time the issue arises and i would agree that there are some sexual assaults that go unreported. I also believe that there are sexual assaults that are bogus claims - how many of each? We'll never know.

You see, we don't even know what sexual assault is anymore. Different articles and different people claiming stats all have a different take on what it actually is, just like sexual harassment and sexual discrimination. We have blurred lines so much that it has become all encompassing for some (like you) and meaningless for others. For example, what do you think this young man did to this girl? Was it a rude comment (nice rack, babe)? Or, was it a boogie grab? Was it a drunken one nighter or date rape? Does it even matter to you? Is this worth ruining some you kids education and life over? Maybe, but without knowing the details - we'll never get to honestly assess that question. I personally know females that have claimed sexual assault - even rape when they were pissed at their man, girls who extorted money from guys using the sexual assault, girls who woke up feeling guilty, girls who simply over-reacted to a bad joke or comment, unwanted advance. How about the woman a few years back who wanted an 8YO boy arrested for sneaking a kiss off a little girl? I knew one girl who got pregnant at 14 or 15 and told her parents she was raped - and even gave the guys name.

If the police can't find anything, then what makes you think the university is better equipped at handling such an issue? I know that you'd like to take every case and believe the woman 100% (because women never lie) and not even acknowledge the guys perspective, but really is that fair? The university has done the right thing - have them stay away from each other and put it behind them.

I know some assaults don't get reported, Is that because they're all scared, or is that maybe because many girls thought it wasn't really a big deal. If you question someone and ask if they've ever been cat called and they say yes, but they didn't care enough to report the incident- well well, what some will report is an unreported sexual assault - and logic tells us that many of cyber stats would reflect such incidents.

You are assuming a heck of a lot about me, much of which I think is irrelevant and wrong. I have no desire to engage in your ludicrous beliefs about me.

As far as your anecdotal statements, that's all they are.

Have you watched the documentary?

Edited April 11, 2016 by WestCoastRunner

[bush_cheney2004]

Here is an interesting take from the G&M

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/should-universities-police-sexual-assault/article29570029/

This article with more references to what is happening in the United States only reinforces my earlier link to "Fantastic Lies" at Duke University and those who are falsely accused and prosecuted.

[Hal 9000]

You are assuming a heck of a lot about me, much of which I think is irrelevant and wrong. I have no desire to engage in your ludicrous beliefs about me.

As far as your anecdotal statements, that's all they are.

Have you watched the documentary?

I haven't assumed anything about you except that you consider every case of sexual assault to have equal weight - which you do, and that like cyber, you will believe the woman's story 100% without question - which you also have proven many times in the past.

As for the documentary, no I haven't seen it because it's not a real documentary, it's an opinion piece and I know what it'll say. I'm answering your question about the article that I posted.

As far as anecdotal statements - well yeah, i have seen what i've seen and logic tells me that what i'm seeing is that both sexes have the ability to lie about certain situations. That being so, I can't in good faith support expelling men based on a nothing more than a complaint - a complaint that we don't even know the slightest detail about.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Charles Anthony
deleted double quote

[WestCoastRunner]

I haven't assumed anything about you except that you consider every case of sexual assault to have equal weight - which you do, and that like cyber, you will believe the woman's story 100% without question - which you also have proven many times in the past.

As for the documentary, no I haven't seen it because it's not a real documentary, it's an opinion piece and I know what it'll say. I'm answering your question about the article that I posted.

As far as anecdotal statements - well yeah, i have seen what i've seen and logic tells me that what i'm seeing is that both sexes have the ability to lie about certain situations. That being so, I can't in good faith support expelling men based on a nothing more than a complaint - a complaint that we don't even know the slightest detail about.

As I have said, you assume too much about me and provide nothing to backup your claims.

[Hal 9000]

As I have said, you assume too much about me and provide nothing to backup your claims.

OK, then you surely agree with the university's position.

If not, then can you please explain your position, what you would do if you were the university and why?

[jacee]

If I was the young woman I wouldn't sign the contract.

I'd say what I want to, to protect others.

Think Jian Ghomeshi's trolling successfully these days? ?

.

Edited April 11, 2016 by jacee

[Hal 9000]

As I have said, you assume too much about me and provide nothing to backup your claims.

I haven't actually made any claims. That's simply your "goto" comment, along with asking for a cite or dismissing common sense based on "anecdotal evidence".

I'm suggesting quite the opposite, that we really don't know anything about the stats and especially don't know anything about the situation mentioned in the article. You seem to reject the actions of the university without knowing a single fact or even what the original complaint was.

[Big Guy]

I have just watched a documentary about charges of sexual assault against members of the Duke University lacrosse team that took place 10 years ago. This was a case of "she said", he said and he said and he said and the state decided that the "she said" should take preference:

Fantastic Lies

It is tragic in what happens when people get outraged before the truth comes out. I had forgotten about the incident and really had not known how it ended. This video shows what happened from an objective perspective. If you have an hour and a half, you may find this enlightening.

[Argus]

Unfortunately, because of the private nature of sex, it's always a 'he said she said' situation, there is no evidence police that can use to lay charges, often little chance of conviction ... just a lengthy and damaging process resulting in ... more abuse.

For those reasons, I'm personally in favour of a more direct approach... where women help each other deal with such offenders ... disguise themselves (pink sheets with pointy hats?) catch him alone ... and beat the f*cking shit out of him! Whack his peepee a really good one too!

Because women never lie and make stuff up to get back at a guy due to jealousy or a relationship gone bad or just insanity, right?

Why have trials at all.

Of course, that works the other way too...

[Argus]

Sure thing, I'm all in favour of a little vigilante justice when the courts won't do their thing. Not just for rape, for any crime.

Sooo, if you suspect a certain woman was in a pink sheet that attacked you, just get wait till she's alone and beat the living shit out of her?

[Argus]

The so-called rape epidemic on college campuses is fictional, made up by shrill leftist feminists, most of whom are lesbians.

A new report on sexual assault released today by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) officially puts to bed the bogus statistic that one in five women on college campuses are victims of sexual assault. In fact, non-students are 25 percent more likely to be victims of sexual assault than students, according to the data. And the real number of assault victims is several orders of magnitude lower than one-in-five.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/12/11/new-doj-data-on-sexual-assaults-college-students-are-actually-less-likely-to-be-victimized/