Behavior Contracts Not For Sexual Assault

[Big Guy]

Here we go again. Brandon University has different processes for conflict resolution for students and staff. The intent is to resolve a situation where both the complainant and the accused would be allowed to finish out their schooling without one or both being suspended or dismissed.

A young lady student at Brandon approached the University with allegations of sexual assault against another student. The student was advised to report the incident to the police. The student did so, the police found no grounds to pursue a criminal charges so the University had both students sign a "behavior contract". Basically, they agreed to not contact each other and to not "bad mouth" each other or to make any accusations. Their future communications were to be with a counselor.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/brandon-university-behavioural-contract-1.3520568

The young lady went to the press, it became news and the University was condemned for placing a "gag order" on the young lady. University administration changed their mind and declared that behavioural contracts were not appropriate to resolve sexual assault accusations.

So sexual assault is now different from any other assault. It often comes down to "he said, she said" situation where many people feel the advantage should go to the complainant as to who is telling the truth.

I do not.

I feel both parties have just as much credibility and should be held to the same standard.

It is interesting to see what process the University will now use to resolve a "he said, she said" assault case where the police found no evidence to prosecute - and still allow both students to finish their schooling.

[cybercoma]

Why would they put a gag order on a student? That was pretty f'ing myopic of them.

[Big Guy]

I believe that the intent is to minimize the distractions to the school life of other students. Brandon has about 3,000 full time students so there is a good chance the two litigants could make contact with each other. I assume that a gag rule is in place so that sides are not taken by others and the situation escalates into major disruptions.

It would create a situation where every group withe its own agenda would use the access to TV coverage to promote their ends. I believe that this is the next step in this incident.

The alternative would have been to expel one (or both) of the students without cause, creating a dangerous precedent.

It appears the young lady wants no part of more publicity and intends to transfer to another University next year.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Big Guy

[cybercoma]

You don't understand academia if you think it's a good thing that the university asks someone to sign a gag order.

[Big Guy]

You don't understand academia if you think it's a good thing that the university asks someone to sign a gag order.

Interesting point of view but I did not state that it's a good thing that the university asks someone to sign a gag order, but I am very familiar with academia from many directions - thank you.

What do you propose should have been done, or should now be done - from an academia point of view?

[Big Guy]

When people go with the "she" in a "he said, she said" sexual assault situation they often find themselves in trouble:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/05/media/jackie-rolling-stone-rape-story/

[Army Guy]

Just one question, Big guy....What has changed since DND was in the headlines and failed to act on complaints.....why is this not getting the same attention as you gave DND......is it to close to home.....maybe schools need to contact the law in all these cases and let justice be served.....

[cybercoma]

Interesting point of view but I did not state that it's a good thing that the university asks someone to sign a gag order, but I am very familiar with academia from many directions - thank you.

What do you propose should have been done, or should now be done - from an academia point of view?

Save for ensuring the student has counselling services, isn't sharing a residence with her accused, and contacts the appropriate authorities, there's not much else they can do.

[Big Guy]

Just one question, Big guy....What has changed since DND was in the headlines and failed to act on complaints.....why is this not getting the same attention as you gave DND......is it to close to home.....maybe schools need to contact the law in all these cases and let justice be served.....

The schools did encourage the student to go to the police. There was an investigation and the police found no grounds for prosecution. The job of the trustees then became to minimize the disruption to the school and make sure there was no escalation of the bad feelings.

The student has chosen to attend another University.

[Bryan]

It's about time that a University handled an issue like this with that level of maturity. Far too often, the accused is immediately suspended on just an unfounded accusation. The made the police deal with it, the police did not find her claim credible, so that's it -- she's not allowed to go bad mouthing the guy. She gets protected from being called a liar in public too. That's how it should be.

[Big Guy]

It's about time that a University handled an issue like this with that level of maturity. Far too often, the accused is immediately suspended on just an unfounded accusation. The made the police deal with it, the police did not find her claim credible, so that's it -- she's not allowed to go bad mouthing the guy. She gets protected from being called a liar in public too. That's how it should be.

I agree. And if she would not have gone public or refused to sign the form then this would be a non issue.

[cybercoma]

If women would just shut up and accept the abuse everything would be fine. Same reasoning people used about those "uppity" blacks who just didn't know their place.

[Big Guy]

If women would just shut up and accept the abuse everything would be fine. Same reasoning people used about those "uppity" blacks who just didn't know their place.

I disagree. I believe that any woman who has been assaulted has the opportunity (and obligation) to seek justice. If/when the accused is convicted, then future assaults by this individual are decreased. Nobody should just shut up and accept abuse - women, the elderly, men, children, the handicapped etc.

I also believe that sexual assault should be treated as physical assault as to the way a complaint is treated. The accused is innocent until proven guilty. If the accused is not proven guilty then justice has been served.

You obviously have your right to your own reasoning but I suggest that to equate blatant racism with this situation in Brandon is way over the top. You might review your objectivity to the equality of crimes against men and those against women.

[Bryan]

If women would just shut up and accept the abuse everything would be fine. Same reasoning people used about those "uppity" blacks who just didn't know their place.

If the abuse happened, no. If it didn't, they absolutely should shut up. There have been far too many cases of peoples' lives being ruined by false accusations.

Accusations of racism should be dealt with in a similar fashion.

[The_Squid]

Telling someone to shut up about a sexual assault is pretty damn stupid. So let the creep assault another girl, rather than warn them? Is that what the university would like to see? So they can each sign another gag order when there isn't enough evidence a second time? The creep should probably sign something that says he won't assault anymore girls.

If the abuse happened, no. If it didn't, they absolutely should shut up. There have been far too many cases of peoples' lives being ruined by false accusations.

Accusations of racism should be dealt with in a similar fashion.

Comparing accusations of rape to accusations of racism? Where the hell does that come from? You think the two are equivalent? What a strange thing to say...

Edited April 8, 2016 by The_Squid

[jacee]

I disagree. I believe that any woman who has been assaulted has the opportunity (and obligation) to seek justice. If/when the accused is convicted, then future assaults by this individual are decreased.

Unfortunately, because of the private nature of sex, it's always a 'he said she said' situation, there is no evidence police that can use to lay charges, often little chance of conviction ... just a lengthy and damaging process resulting in ... more abuse.

For those reasons, I'm personally in favour of a more direct approach... where women help each other deal with such offenders ... disguise themselves (pink sheets with pointy hats?) catch him alone ... and beat the f*cking shit out of him! Whack his peepee a really good one too!

It works very well. It may only take one such event for all the rape hounds on campus to take notice, and f*ck off ... maybe many campuses!

Why should women sit around whining and moaning 'poor me, poor me ... the big bad man raped me ... the cops don't believe me!'

Nonsense!

Who needs the cops!

Get a backbone!

Get the girls together!

Do what the guys would do!

Roving gangs of girl justice warriors ... who WILL beat the shit out of the creeps!

It empowers you a lot more than the police and courts.

With the system so screwed ... it's the way of the future.

If the creep wants to go to the police ... let him try to 'prove' to them that he DIDN'T rape her.

Maybe I just need another cup of coffee. ?

But it happens ... and those girls do feel like justice was done.

.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jacee

[Guest]

Unfortunately, because of the private nature of sex, it's always a 'he said she said' situation, there is no evidence police that can use to lay charges, often little chance of conviction ... just a lengthy and damaging process resulting in ... nothing.

For those reasons, I'm personally in favour of a more direct approach... where women help each other deal with such offenders ... disguise themselves (pink sheets with pointy hats?) catch him alone ... and beat the shit out of him! Whack his peepee a really good one too!

It works very well. It may only take one such event for all the rape hounds on campus to take notice, and f*ck off ... maybe many campuses!

Why should women sit around whining and moaning 'poor me, poor me ... the big bad man raped me ... the cops don't believe me!'

Nonsense!

Who needs the cops!

Get a backbone!

Get the girls together!

Do what the guys would do!

Roving gangs of girl justice warriors ... who WILL beat the shit out of the creeps!

It empowers you a lot more than the police and courts.

With the system so screwed ... it's the way of the future.

If the creep wants to go to the police ... let him try to 'prove' to them that he DIDN'T rape her.

.

He wouldn't have to prove he didn't rape her. She would have to prove she didn't whack his peepee.

No wait, he would have to prove she did.

[jacee]

He wouldn't have to prove he didn't rape her. She would have to prove she didn't whack his peepee.

No wait, he would have to prove she did.

He would have to identify who whacked his peepee... just imagine him telling the cops that a bunch of unidentifiable people in pink sheets whacked his pathetic peepee! ?

Then he'd have to tell them that he's sure it MUST have been her because ... well ... because he raped her. ?

Now HE has to prove to the police that he raped her to prove she has motivation to whack his peepee ... but he can't identify her ... hell, maybe she wasn't even there!

Maybe other 'pink sheets' whacked his peepee!

Of course ... if they crazy glue his peepee to the bed post ... how's he going to go to the police?!?

Ya, I really think it's time for a little pink street justice for rape hounds.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4640/1364/1600/kkk-robe-l.jpg

They get away with it too often.

The justice system just doesn't work for that crime.

God is that f*c king coffee not done yet!!!?

Just pass the word around ... rape hounds will be punished ... and they won't know who did it ... but they will know why!

????

.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jacee

[Guest]

He would have to identify who whacked his peepee... just imagine him telling the cops that a bunch of unidentifiable people in pink sheets whacked his pathetic peepee!

Then he'd have to tell them that he's sure it MUST have been her because ... well ... because he raped her.

Now HE has to prove to the police that he raped her to prove she has motivation to whack his peepee ... but he can't identify her ... hell, maybe she wasn't even there!

Maybe other 'pink sheets' whacked his peepee!

Of course ... if they crazy glue his peepee to the bed post ... how's he going to go to the police?!

Ya, I really think it's time for a little pink street justice for rape hounds.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4640/1364/1600/kkk-robe-l.jpg

They get away with it too often.

The justice system just doesn't work for that crime.

.

Exactly. Imagine how hard it would be to prove if all the friends of the peepee whacker insisted she would never do such a thing, in fact, she was with them down the bowling alley.

It's possible the guy might never be believed.

[jacee]

Exactly. Imagine how hard it would be to prove if all the friends of the peepee whacker insisted she would never do such a thing, in fact, she was with them down the bowling alley.

It's possible the guy might never be believed.

Now you're getting it.

It's a perfect rape justice system ... since we don't have any other one.

Maybe pink sheets are a little flamboyant tho ... have to rethink that.

Maybe a little permanent ... mark on him?

As a warning to other women?

?

.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jacee

[Guest]

Now you're getting it.

It's a perfect rape justice system ... since we don't have any other one.

Maybe pink sheets are a little flamboyant tho ... have to rethink that.

Maybe a little permanent ... mark on him?

As a warning to other women?

.

Sure thing, I'm all in favour of a little vigilante justice when the courts won't do their thing. Not just for rape, for any crime.

[Big Guy]

Telling someone to shut up about a sexual assault is pretty damn stupid. So let the creep assault another girl, rather than warn them? Is that what the university would like to see? So they can each sign another gag order when there isn't enough evidence a second time? The creep should probably sign something that says he won't assault anymore girls.

Comparing accusations of rape to accusations of racism? Where the hell does that come from? You think the two are equivalent? What a strange thing to say...

You start with the assumption that a sexual assault took place. The police investigate the incident and found no grounds for prosecution. That means that the person is presumed innocent.

The University then has to proceed under that assumption. Maybe the girl made the accusation in an attempt to get back at the individual for a previous slight? You (we) do not know. The responsibility of the University is to continue to make the school a safe and comfortable place to learn under the information that they have.

The University has admitted that the "behavioral contract" was not appropriate in this case - I am not sure what else the trustees could have done./

What does The_Squid suggest that they should have done?

[jacee]

You start with the assumption that a sexual assault took place. The police investigate the incident and found no grounds for prosecution. That means that the person is presumed innocent.

The University then has to proceed under that assumption. Maybe the girl made the accusation in an attempt to get back at the individual for a previous slight? You (we) do not know. The responsibility of the University is to continue to make the school a safe and comfortable place to learn under the information that they have.

The University has admitted that the "behavioral contract" was not appropriate in this case - I am not sure what else the trustees could have done./

What does The_Squid suggest that they should have done?

F*Ck the police.

They've proven their incompetence over and over again.

We'll just whack his peepee with a stick.

He won't do that again!

Pass the word ...

?

[Big Guy]

What about the number of accusations of sexual assaults later recanted by the accusers admitting they were using the pretext for other reasons?

[jacee]

What about the number of accusations of sexual assaults later recanted by the accusers admitting they were using the pretext for other reasons?

Obviously we want to make sure of the truth first.

I think women justice warriors are capable of determining who's being truthful.

Better than the police.

You see ... male cops fall for the pathetic 'poor me' scammers, but they punish the angry women. Police don't like angry women. I guess women who've been raped are 'supposed' to be sad ... not angry ... so the police get duped easily.

There's a very special justice reserved for those pathetic, sad, scheming, lying bags of sh*t, since they make the rest of us look bad.

Not to worry ... ?

We've got it covered.

Pass the word.

.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jacee