August1991 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) In politics, all things considered, what's better: ethical or effectiveness? Steyn is posing the question differently: if you lose in culture, you lose. === Mulroney, in 9 years, created the GST and created US free trade. Mulroney tried to change UIC and even our constituition. But Mulroney was also brown envelopes and Gesca. Harper in 9 years was honest but what else - he eliminated the penny? Compared to Mulroney, is this Harper's legacy, plastic money? Edited February 25, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Harper in 9 years was honest but what else - he eliminated the penny? Compared to Mulroney, is this Harper's legacy, plastic money? So, when you finally realize that Harper was fundamentally dishonest, I guess all you have left is the elimination of the penny. In only 9 years. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Largest. Deficits. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Harper in 9 years was honest but what else - he eliminated the penny? Compared to Mulroney, is this Harper's legacy, plastic money? Settled more aboriginal land claims than all previous prime ministers combined. More international trade agreements than all previous prime ministers combined. Most open and accountable government in Canadian history. Best fiscal manager in Canadian history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 The only thing Harper did that was good was to income split for seniors but then again, after taxing interest income he had to do something for seniors, since seniors DO vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Settled more aboriginal land claims than all previous prime ministers combined. More international trade agreements than all previous prime ministers combined. Most open and accountable government in Canadian history. Best fiscal manager in Canadian history. "Best fiscal manager"? Care to show us when he ever had anything close to even a balanced budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Settled more aboriginal land claims than all previous prime ministers combined. More international trade agreements than all previous prime ministers combined. Most open and accountable government in Canadian history. Best fiscal manager in Canadian history. Plus, nine years! We did much better economically than our neighbor to the south who racked up trillion dollar deficits, and now have little to show for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Plus, nine years! We did much better economically than our neighbor to the south who racked up trillion dollar deficits, and now have little to show for it. Yes. Harper can thank Chretien for stable banks, the world for stable commodity prices and Chretien (again) for keeping us out of the disastrous Iraq invasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Settled more aboriginal land claims than all previous prime ministers combined. More international trade agreements than all previous prime ministers combined. Yes Most open and accountable government in Canadian history. Best fiscal manager in Canadian history. No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yes. Harper can thank Chretien for stable banks, the world for stable commodity prices and Chretien (again) for keeping us out of the disastrous Iraq invasion. Old man Chretien who would attack protestors? Yeah, right, he was a small, bitter man who did nothing of consequence during his time. He slashed the military, slashed the medical system and was directly responsible for the Liberal party spending years in the wilderness with no real leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Old man Chretien who would attack protestors? Yeah, right, he was a small, bitter man who did nothing of consequence during his time. He slashed the military, slashed the medical system and was directly responsible for the Liberal party spending years in the wilderness with no real leader. And? What does any of that have to do with the fact that he (contrary to Harper's demands) prevented bank deregulation and he (contrary to Harper's demands) refused to send troops to Iraq? Two of the three factors that allowed Canada to do so well financially during the reign of Harper were due to Chretien, not Harper. And the third (stable commodity prices) had to to with China. Harper did NOTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Old man Chretien who would attack protestors? Yeah, right, he was a small, bitter man who did nothing of consequence during his time. He slashed the military, slashed the medical system and was directly responsible for the Liberal party spending years in the wilderness with no real leader. You mean he righted the finances of the country and is the reason we enjoy such a comfortable financial position today, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) And? What does any of that have to do with the fact that he (contrary to Harper's demands) prevented bank deregulation and he (contrary to Harper's demands) refused to send troops to Iraq? Two of the three factors that allowed Canada to do so well financially during the reign of Harper were due to Chretien, not Harper. And the third (stable commodity prices) had to to with China. Harper did NOTHING. It's good to see such a crazy-town interpretation of what happened under both Harper and Chretien coming from the left wingers. This means when the time is right, Trudeau will be more easily outmaneuvered. Harper's brain trust stayed in power for 9 years in a liberal country. No doubt you have no real understanding of how that was done as well. Edited February 27, 2016 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Um, who cares? It's like asking "who's the lesser loser?" Footnotes is what they are. We all know that Liberal leaders is where the action's at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 It's good to see such a crazy-town interpretation of what happened under both Harper ... Yeah. For Harper supporters, the truth is crazy-town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'm more in the mindset of do no harm as PM. Mulroney's GST was an incredibly bad idea and continues to be a weight on our economy. Like all VAT taxes are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'm more in the mindset of do no harm as PM. Mulroney's GST was an incredibly bad idea and continues to be a weight on our economy. Like all VAT taxes are. You're right.... higher income taxes on the top brackets are preferrable with fewer loopholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 I'm more in the mindset of do no harm as PM. Mulroney's GST was an incredibly bad idea and continues to be a weight on our economy. Like all VAT taxes are. Don't most economists disagree with you? Without Mulroney's GST, the Liberals under Chretien would never have balanced the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) I'm more in the mindset of do no harm as PM. Mulroney's GST was an incredibly bad idea and continues to be a weight on our economy. Like all VAT taxes are.Compared to the MST (which dated from the 1920s and the GST replaced)? And the USFTA? ===== In a crazy, bad world - you would do nothing? I'm a conservative. Mulroney fixed (part of) our tax system and made it easier for people to deal with foreigners. Harper (and Flaherty), to their credit, created the TFSA (Roth). But in political terms, the TFSA was a much easier sell than the GST. In Japan, the GST defeated the LDP. Mulroney survived Free Trade. I reckon the GST, and Meech defeated him. A bridge too far. Edited February 29, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Largest. Deficits. Ever.Compared to the US federal government, Harper has left us in good shape. Harper was elected in 2006 (Obama in 2008) and both (like Bush Jnr) lived through a remarkable collapse of a housing bubble. All things considered, compared to 1929, I'd say our North American politicians did well. Edited February 29, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Compared to the US federal government, Harper has left us in good shape. Harper was elected in 2006 (Obama in 2008) and both (like Bush Jnr) lived through a remarkable collapse of a housing bubble. Harper wasn't as big of a disaster as Bush.... wow... high praise!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 The American presidents will always do their best/worst to help Canada compare the performance of its prime ministers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Don't most economists disagree with you? Without Mulroney's GST, the Liberals under Chretien would never have balanced the budget. Most economists do disagree with Shady's idea. And they also warned Harper that reducing it was a really bad way to garner votes. He went ahead and created an endless sting of deficits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted March 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Um, who cares? It's like asking "who's the lesser loser?" Footnotes is what they are. We all know that Liberal leaders is where the action's at. Really? Who accomplished more: Chretien or Martin Jnr? Despite their virtual claims to being "progressive", did they in fact change anything? They paid down the federal debt using UIC money. ==== Chretien kept us out of Iraq. Other than that, I don't know what he accomplished other than keeping the GST and maintaining the USFTA. OTOH, if you're a federalist, Chretien's arrogance and insouciance almost destroyed Canada in 1995. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted March 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) Settled more aboriginal land claims than all previous prime ministers combined. More international trade agreements than all previous prime ministers combined. Most open and accountable government in Canadian history. Best fiscal manager in Canadian history. Bryan, you make good points. Indeed, you make my point. Mulroney made the first step in the international trade agreements - and it was a doozy. The 1988 election. Land claims, open, accountable, fiscal manager - I agree. IMHO, this is not a case of 1000 "good work" being worth 1 "oh sh*t". For Harper, 1000 little stars for "good job done" is sadly worth nothing. Like Mulroney, Harper should have pushed the envelope on a critical point. Edited March 8, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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