Donald vs Hillary

BC_chick · October 11, 2016

6 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

So the election is between Trump and Clinton. When people are outlining the reasons people should vote Clinton instead of Trump, you're not doing your progressive values any favours by tearing down Hillary. Bernie Sanders implored his supporters to come together around Clinton. Why? Because the next president is probably going to be responsible for two supreme court justices and there is no third option after Trump and Clinton. When you actively work against Clinton, you're sadly working for Trump because there will be no third party candidate winning the presidency. Not this time around and very likely not for many years, if ever in our lifetime.

I doubt my opinions on a Canadian forum are going to have any kind of influence on the election, but I get what you're saying. I agree that she's the most qualified of the entire gong-show, but that's just a sad testament of how bad things are - not how good Hillary Clinton is.

I still like Obama in spite of his faults and I think he's a good person inside. I don't think the same of Hillary Clinton even though I agree she's head and shoulders above any of the other candidates running.

cybercoma · October 11, 2016

45 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You add nothing to this discussion by parsing Americans and Canadians with or without dual citizenship. Citizens who can vote are also embracing Clinton after railing against the status quo. My comment concerned the non-voting wannabes in Canada who now gush over candidate Clinton and her large status quo baggage, policies they rejected before. Since their "support" is very much irrelevant, why wouldn't they stick to their lofty principles and reject one or both major party candidates ?

If you don't think Canadians should discuss US Politics, then you're free to stop participating in this forum. I would also invite you to live by your own principles and keep out of discussion of Canadian politicians and policies, if that's the road you want to travel.

Like I said, you're adding nothing to the conversation by whining about how irrelevant "non-voters" opinions are on a political analysis forum.

Edited October 11, 2016 by cybercoma

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

1 minute ago, cybercoma said:

If you don't think Canadians should discuss US Politics, then you're free to stop participating in this forum. I would also invite you to live by your own principles and keep out of discussion of Canadian politicians and policies, if that's the road you want to travel.

You are missing the point entirely....discussing American politics has nothing to do with selling out on "progressive" principles.

cybercoma · October 11, 2016

42 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

I doubt my opinions on a Canadian forum are going to have any kind of influence on the election, but I get what you're saying. I agree that she's the most qualified of the entire gong-show, but that's just a sad testament of how bad things are - not how good Hillary Clinton is.

I still like Obama in spite of his faults and I think he's a good person inside. I don't think the same of Hillary Clinton even though I agree she's head and shoulders above any of the other candidates running.

I agree with much of the negative sentiment towards her. Her biggest failing, imho, is that she's been involved with so much sleazy business dealings from Watergate to today. But that's what you get in the United States. A choice between two candidates of Wall Street's choosing. The millions of dollars needed to fund an election campaign ensures that only those who get into bed with the wealthiest financiers are going to be successful. Until there is a wholesale rejection of that, and we're starting to see it play out with politicians like Bernie Sanders, then it will be par for the course that Americans will choose between two elites that have absolutely no interest in the social welfare of the bottom half of society.

cybercoma · October 11, 2016

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You are missing the point entirely....discussing American politics has nothing to do with selling out on "progressive" principles.

Please elaborate. I'm all ears. Who is selling out progressive principles and how exactly?

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

Just now, cybercoma said:

Please elaborate. I'm all ears. Who is selling out progressive principles and how exactly?

Canadian "support" for Clinton embraces the status quo for continuing U.S. military intervention(s), Wall Street "banksters", minority incarceration rates, capital punishment, deportations, NAFTA, wage/wealth inequality, "American style" healthcare, etc. A Senator Hillary Clinton even carried water for the Bush administration (e.g. Iraq War).

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/hillary-clinton-2016-progressives-213916

Why would Canadian progressives "support" the neoconservative Hillary Clinton on policy issues ?

cybercoma · October 11, 2016

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canadian "support" for Clinton embraces the status quo for continuing U.S. military intervention(s), Wall Street "banksters", minority incarceration rates, capital punishment, deportations, NAFTA, wage/wealth inequality, "American style" healthcare, etc. A Senator Hillary Clinton even carried water for the Bush administration (e.g. Iraq War).

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/hillary-clinton-2016-progressives-213916

Why would Canadian progressives "support" the neoconservative Hillary Clinton on policy issues ?

There's Canadians who support Trump so I'll assume you're just talking about any progressive who supports Hillary. This is a de facto election between Trump and Clinton, as I outlined to BC_chick here. On what planet is Trump the more progressive choice between those two?

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

1 minute ago, cybercoma said:

There's Canadians who support Trump so I'll assume you're just talking about any progressive who supports Hillary. This is a de facto election between Trump and Clinton, as I outlined to BC_chick here. On what planet is Trump the more progressive choice between those two?

Neither are progressive choices. Why support either bad choice when there is no Canadian truck in this race ?

Are progressive "principles" so easily jettisoned because there is no vote in play ?

cybercoma · October 11, 2016

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Neither are progressive choices. Why support either bad choice when there is no Canadian truck in this race?

If you're not going to ask serious questions, I'm not going to give you serious answers. One of the choices is clearly more progressive than the other, but you know that. So I'm not really sure why you would even ask.

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

2 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

If you're not going to ask serious questions, I'm not going to give you serious answers. One of the choices is clearly more progressive than the other, but you know that. So I'm not really sure why you would even ask.

You are dodging the fundamental question for reasons that are immaterial to this U.S. election. There is nothing "more progressive" about Hillary Clinton. Is it impossible to reject poor candidates ? Anyone who "supports" Hillary Clinton is most certainly not a "progressive".

dialamah · October 11, 2016

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Neither are progressive choices. Why support either bad choice when there is no Canadian truck in this race ?

Are progressive "principles" so easily jettisoned because there is no vote in play ?

It's just a discussion board. Why do you care so much?

?Impact · October 11, 2016

1 hour ago, BC_chick said:

Do you really think she didn't know what the C was for?

Well Trump proved to the world he doesn't know. He stated during the second debate it stands for Classified, which is completely false. It stands for Confidential, the lowest of US government classification levels (Confidential, Secret, Top Secret).

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

Just now, dialamah said:

It's just a discussion board. Why do you care so much?

Because the discussion is inconsistent with previously expressed progressive goals and narrative. Some progressive members here get it and reject both candidates.

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

5 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Well Trump proved to the world he doesn't know. He stated during the second debate it stands for Classified, which is completely false. It stands for Confidential, the lowest of US government classification levels (Confidential, Secret, Top Secret).

All this demonstrates is that Hillary Clinton knew and/or should have known. Her "mistakes" were actually violations of federal law.

dialamah · October 11, 2016

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Because the discussion is inconsistent with previously expressed progressive goals and narrative. Some progressive members here get it and reject both candidates.

Do you spend any time on American discussion boards pointing out your hypocrisy of American Progressives? If not, wouldn't it be more appropriate to address your comments to voters who are actually eligible to vote, rather than wasting your time on Canadians who you think have no skin in the game?

Edited October 11, 2016 by dialamah

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Do you spend any time on American discussion boards pointing out your hypocrisy of American Progressives? If not, wouldn't it be more appropriate to address your comments to voters who are actually eligible to vote, rather than wasting your time on Canadians who you think have no skin in the game?

Yes...I spend time on several forums...reveling in such "progressive" inconsistencies. The Canadians mostly just parrot back what they get from American media anyway.

Wilber · October 11, 2016

1 hour ago, cybercoma said:

I agree with much of the negative sentiment towards her. Her biggest failing, imho, is that she's been involved with so much sleazy business dealings from Watergate to today. But that's what you get in the United States. A choice between two candidates of Wall Street's choosing. The millions of dollars needed to fund an election campaign ensures that only those who get into bed with the wealthiest financiers are going to be successful. Until there is a wholesale rejection of that, and we're starting to see it play out with politicians like Bernie Sanders, then it will be par for the course that Americans will choose between two elites that have absolutely no interest in the social welfare of the bottom half of society.

Citizens United and a conservative dominated Supreme Court. Suck it up GOP, the Dems have beaten you at your own game..

BC_chick · October 11, 2016

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

Well Trump proved to the world he doesn't know. He stated during the second debate it stands for Classified, which is completely false. It stands for Confidential, the lowest of US government classification levels (Confidential, Secret, Top Secret).

'Trump is worse'

Yes no doubt, I've stated that many times myself.

cybercoma · October 11, 2016

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

There is nothing "more progressive" about Hillary Clinton.

Whatever you say. There's no point arguing with someone who's going to pretend 2+2=5.

cybercoma · October 11, 2016

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Her "mistakes" were actually violations of federal law.

Were they? Because she wasn't convicted of violating federal law, despite the countless inquiries into both her emails and Benghazi. Or are you being intentionally vague, so you can point to some other federal conviction?

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

7 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Were they? Because she wasn't convicted of violating federal law, despite the countless inquiries into both her emails and Benghazi. Or are you being intentionally vague, so you can point to some other federal conviction?

She was not indicted for violating federal law(s) because of widely reported partisan influence on the DoJ and FBI, including Bill Clinton. Different rules apply to other Americans, like General David Petraeus.

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

FYI - here is an example of one state's qualified ballot candidates for the office of U.S. president and vice-president:

Title...............................Candidate..................................Party
U.S. President & Vice President 	Donald J. Trump and Michael R. Pence 	   REPUBLICAN
U.S. President & Vice President 	Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine 	           DEMOCRATIC-FARMER-LABOR
U.S. President & Vice President 	Darrell Castle and Scott Bradley 	       CONSTITUTION PARTY
U.S. President & Vice President 	Dan R. Vacek and Mark Elworth, Jr. 	       LEGAL MARIJUANA NOW
U.S. President & Vice President 	Alyson Kennedy and Osborne Hart 	       SOCIALIST WORKERS PARTY
U.S. President & Vice President 	Jill Stein and Howie Hawkins 	           GREEN PARTY
U.S. President & Vice President 	Roque De La Fuente and Michael Steinberg   AMERICAN DELTA PARTY
U.S. President & Vice President 	Evan McMullin and Nathan Johnson 	       INDEPENDENCE
U.S. President & Vice President 	Gary Johnson and William Weld 	           LIBERTARIAN PARTY

Topaz · October 11, 2016

One thing I've noticed is the media says the Clinton is always ahead in the polls taken but yet, Clinton has the President and his wife, the VP, Al Gore, Bill, their daughter and more coming out and speaking for Clinton, why, if she so far in the polls. The Black child that Bill fathered, over on the Drudge Report, there a picture of him, he's in his 30's is married and has kids of his own and even though the Clinton's say that Bill had a DNA test done, he says they didn't. His mother was a hooker that Bill met on the street, while he was Gov.

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2016

Looks like leaked emails only confirm what we already knew about the Clinton Foundation taking advantage of disasters in Haiti, just as was done by some in Canada. Even today, Haitian hurricane victims are wondering who in the U.S. and Canada will profit from their misfortune, including a U.S. federal election.

BC_chick · October 12, 2016

35 minutes ago, Topaz said:

One thing I've noticed is the media says the Clinton is always ahead in the polls taken but yet, Clinton has the President and his wife, the VP, Al Gore, Bill, their daughter and more coming out and speaking for Clinton, why, if she so far in the polls. The Black child that Bill fathered, over on the Drudge Report, there a picture of him, he's in his 30's is married and has kids of his own and even though the Clinton's say that Bill had a DNA test done, he says they didn't. His mother was a hooker that Bill met on the street, while he was Gov.

I wish that last sentence had appeared earlier in your post so I could've stopped reading.

Seriously, you believe that a hooker would bareback with clients and then remember which one fathered her kid?