Donald vs Hillary

Moonlight Graham · October 13, 2016

On 2016-10-11 at 4:27 PM, cybercoma said:

I agree with much of the negative sentiment towards her. Her biggest failing, imho, is that she's been involved with so much sleazy business dealings from Watergate to today. But that's what you get in the United States. A choice between two candidates of Wall Street's choosing. The millions of dollars needed to fund an election campaign ensures that only those who get into bed with the wealthiest financiers are going to be successful. Until there is a wholesale rejection of that, and we're starting to see it play out with politicians like Bernie Sanders, then it will be par for the course that Americans will choose between two elites that have absolutely no interest in the social welfare of the bottom half of society.

Excellent post. These are my same thoughts 100%.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

betsy · October 13, 2016

It ain't over til it's over.

LA Times says they're neck-and-neck.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/

Btw, LA Times also predicted the re-election of Obama.

The poll asks a different question than other surveys. Most polls ask people which candidate they support and, if they are undecided, whether there is a candidate they lean to. The Daybreak poll asks people to estimate, on a scale of 0 to 100, how likely they are to vote for each of the two major candidates or for some other candidate. Those estimates are then put together to produce a daily forecast.

It predicted that President Obama would be reelected with a margin of victory of 3.32 percentage points. He won by 3.85 points. Most other polls underestimated Obama’s margin by more than that.

Then are you wrong this year?
There’s no way of knowing until the votes are counted. Obviously, the poll’s results have been an outlier compared with other surveys, but if ever there was a year when the outlier might be right, it’s this year.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-poll-faq-20161006-snap-story.html

If there are indeed hidden votes for Trump, the more they'll be hidden now!

Edited October 13, 2016 by betsy

BubberMiley · October 13, 2016

16 minutes ago, betsy said:

LA Times says they're neck-and-neck.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/

That's one way to spin it. Another more truthful way would be to say that Donald has lost his consistent sizable lead in the LATimes poll. You might also wonder why this one poll is so different than all the others and look into its methodology. There you would find it is in fact a totally different poll. It measures likelihood to vote on a scale of 1 to 100. It factors in voter exuberance so that a person who is very, very likely to vote counts more than a person who is only very likely to vote. It appears Trump's supporters are becoming noticeably less exuberant. I blame the grabbing of the pussies.

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

22 hours ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Can you please show where she destroyed the lives and reputations of these women?

I believe that Jones received a settlement of 850,000 from Bill. I'm pretty sure this settlement didn't destroy her life and had nothing to do with Hillary.

Politico has researched Trump's claim that Hillary viciously attacked those who charged abuse by Bill. Their finds were 'Mostly False'. They go into detail on each of the claims here.

Amongst all the presidents I remember personally (Reagan and forward), Bill Clinton is the only one who seems to have a number women accusing him of sexual misconduct. I don't think that's a bizarre coincidence.

I know he's not running and I'm 100% hopeful his wife destroys Donald Trump, but I'm not willing to put my head in the sand about the things the Clintons have done.

I believe women. Not women 'except the ones who accuse the Clintons of abuse and enabling'.

ETA - there are many accounts from Clinton aids and private investigators that collaborate the women's stories.

Edited October 13, 2016 by BC_chick

October 13, 2016

Multiple GOP fundraising events in multiple states have now been cancelled due to a lack of interest. It has been suggested that internal GOP poll numbers show that the Democrats will likely take back the senate and are closing in on congress, something previously thought to be impossible in this election. As a result Paul Ryan has asked Repubs to cut all ties with Trump in order to save their own seat. In response, Donald is now waging war on the GOP.

I wonder if Trump's attacks on the GOP will actually help them in the race for congress. Other than with the sick and twisted evangelical crowd that is, who are willing to overlook sexual assault as long as it means keeping a woman out of a position of ultimate authority.

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

Senate is gonna be blue. I don't think the Republicans are going to recover from nominating Trump and waiting this long to denounce him.

Live odds are 50/50 for Senate and 92% for Clinton presidency.

Edited October 13, 2016 by BC_chick

BubberMiley · October 13, 2016

25 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

... but I'm not willing to put my head in the sand about the things the Clintons have done.

I believe women. Not women 'except the ones who accuse the Clintons of abuse and enabling'.

Do you believe all wives are guilty of "enabling" when their husbands cheat, or just Hillary?

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

18 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Do you believe all wives are guilty of "enabling" when their husbands cheat, or just Hillary?

She went beyond just accepting it.

Having said that, you're welcome to count yourself in the 'I believe women except ones who accuse Bill Clinton' camp.

I prefer to root for her in spite of her bad points as opposed to denying them outright.

Argus · October 13, 2016

38 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

Senate is gonna be blue. I don't think the Republicans are going to recover from nominating Trump and waiting this long to denounce him.

Live odds are 50/50 for Senate and 92% for Clinton presidency.

Senate control is important in that it's the senate who confirm Supreme Court nominations. If Clinton can put through an appointee who has a more liberal view of campaign funding they might be able to reverse the decision which made election spending into a free for all and opened the doors to billionaires and their 'super pacs' controlling so many politicians.

BubberMiley · October 13, 2016

7 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

She went beyond just accepting it.

Having said that, you're welcome to count yourself in the 'I believe women except ones who accuse Bill Clinton' camp.

Thank you. I don't think I'm in that camp though. I'm just asking a question about how she "went beyond accepting it." Can you elaborate?

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

Just now, BubberMiley said:

Thank you. I don't think I'm in that camp though. I'm just asking a question about how she "went beyond accepting it." Can you elaborate?

There are numerous testimonies by the women and collaborated accounts from aids and investigators.

You know what they are, everyone does and the issues have been mentioned even in the pro-Hillary op-eds about the ghosts of her past that can haunt her.

Some people like me choose to root for her in spite of them.

Argus · October 13, 2016

Trump's team of adulterers and misogynists have decided his best move will be to double down on his attacks on Bill Clinton's past history of adultery and sexual harassment. They say they have found other women willing to come forward to say Clinton harassed them in the past. This seems bizarre given his own history, but much about this campaign seems bizarre.

On Thursday night, the Trump campaign will begin a new media blitz, his advisers say, with Broaddrick, Willey, and Jones appearing together on Sean Hannity's Fox News program. Additional interviews will follow.

The move to further amplify the campaign's focus on Bill Clinton's past relationships with women comes amid fresh allegations of Trump's misbehavior.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-12/trump-takes-a-back-to-the-future-focus-on-bill-clinton-s-women

There are now at least half a dozen women who have accused Trump of unwanted touching, groping and kissing.

Women who have accused Trump of groping and touching them.

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

Senate control is important in that it's the senate who confirm Supreme Court nominations. If Clinton can put through an appointee who has a more liberal view of campaign funding they might be able to reverse the decision which made election spending into a free for all and opened the doors to billionaires and their 'super pacs' controlling so many politicians.

Agreed, Obama always had his hands tied so it's going to be interesting how things play out under Clinton.

Clinton will Make America Great.

BubberMiley · October 13, 2016

4 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

You know what they are, everyone does and the issues have been mentioned even in the pro-Hillary op-eds about the ghosts of her past that can haunt her.

No, actually I don't. Everything I've looked into regarding what Hillary did has been vague and questionable. I've heard a lot of " everybody knows what she did" but few actual details from credible sources.

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

7 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

No, actually I don't. Everything I've looked into regarding what Hillary did has been vague and questionable. I've heard a lot of " everybody knows what she did" but few actual details from credible sources.

Vague and questionable but also persistent and numerous which give the allegations more credibility. I have to get to work and don't have time to write an essay about the allegations against the Clintons (first because you'll just say it's all lies anyway and also because it really would be an essay given the number of allegations) but if you really are unfamiliar here is a pretty detailed article:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/us/politics/hillary-bill-clinton-women.html?_r=0

I personally don't need to discount the allegations just because I hope to see Hillary win.

That's all I'm saying

dialamah · October 13, 2016

23 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

Vague and questionable but also persistent and numerous which give the allegations more credibility

There are persistent and numerous allegations that there is at least one, and maybe more, dieties. There are entire books/cults based on those allegations. Do you accept these allegations as more credible based on their pervasiveness around the world and throughout history?

What about persistent allegations around 9-11 being an inside job? Does that also seem credible to you?

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There are persistent and numerous allegations that there is at least one, and maybe more, dieties. There are entire books/cults based on those allegations. Do you accept these allegations as more credible based on their pervasiveness around the world and throughout history?

What about persistent allegations around 9-11 being an inside job? Does that also seem credible to you?

You're right, I'm sure it's just coincidence that out of the 5 presidents in my adult recollection only one seems to have multiple women accuse him of sexual misconduct.

Edited October 13, 2016 by BC_chick

WestCoastRunner · October 13, 2016

2 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

You're right, I'm sure it's just coincidence that out of the 5 presidents in my adult recollection only one seems to have multiple women accuse him of sexual misconduct.

Now I'm confused. I thought Hillary was running for POTUS.

cybercoma · October 13, 2016

4 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

You have to use ctrl (cmd) + right click to delete quote boxes. No clue how to do it on a phone or tablet though.

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

1 minute ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Now I'm confused. I thought Hillary was running for POTUS.

She is and I hope she wins but I'm not in the habit of putting my preferred candidates on a pedestal to the point of denying things which I dislike about them.

I've been very clear about what I don't like about *Hillary's* handling of her husband's affairs.

BC_chick · October 13, 2016

9 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

You have to use ctrl (cmd) + right click to delete quote boxes. No clue how to do it on a phone or tablet though.

I was on my phone earlier but now I'm on desktop. It kept quoting you and I couldn't get rid of it. Notice it's the same post number as the one right after it?

I don't know what (cmd) is.

ETA - now it's a different number than the post after it, but earlier they were both 1817.

Edited October 13, 2016 by BC_chick

BubberMiley · October 13, 2016

54 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

Vague and questionable but also persistent and numerous which give the allegations more credibility. I have to get to work and don't have time to write an essay about the allegations against the Clintons (first because you'll just say it's all lies anyway and also because it really would be an essay given the number of allegations) but if you really are unfamiliar here is a pretty detailed article:

I wouldn't say it's all lies because I have no way of knowing the absolute truth. What I see is a few people who have made careers off of discrediting Bill Clinton and who are still clearly making a living off it. I think he probably had numerous affairs and I think Hillary probably didn't think much of women who would sleep with her husband. When you sell your story about someone for a lot of money, I don't have a lot of sympathy if you whine about the wife questioning whether or not what you're saying is true. But there's little evidence Hillary even did that. I would think she would be somewhat removed from Bill's strategy of dealing with his former sex partners because she's his wife and husbands and wives rarely collaborate on such things.

All in all, I think she was faced with a very difficult, very public situation and handled it with grace.

cybercoma · October 13, 2016

15 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

I was on my phone earlier but now I'm on desktop. It kept quoting you and I couldn't get rid of it. Notice it's the same post number as the one right after it?

I don't know what (cmd) is.

ETA - now it's a different number than the post after it, but earlier they were both 1817.

Mac uses the command key instead of control.

Rue · October 13, 2016

I think Hilary Clinton is a a serial liar and a deliberate one. She's been knee deep in questionable lobbying, real estate deals and business deals that made hearself wealthy using her offices. That is documented. We've all become so jaded by politics we take it as a given. If it were any other candidate she was up against she would have been skewered. She's getting a green card because of her gender on gender issues simply because she's a woman and Trump is a pig. The fact is she abused and humiliated victims of her husband to preserve her own ambitions. She's just as much of a pig as Trump. He's an out and out abusive pig, she's a manipulative cold blooded pig. That said I like pigs and had one as a pet and apologize to them.

She's also getting a further green card on ethics because again anyone up against a flim flam con man like Trump looks like the Virgin Mary.

Its a very sad day when all Americans can find are these two pieces of low life.

Its a sad commentary on how the best of the best won't go near the political world in the US.

I also am disappointed in Paul Ryan. The time to hve disowned Trump was day one of his campaign not only after he looks like h e can't win. Ryan is just saying his ass and those of his friends in the Republican Party who did not have the balls to speak out against Trump from day one.

The Republicans allowed Trump to make a mockery of their party. They feared him as a third party candidate bleeding voters way from them in sufficient numbers to get Clinton in. They played coward politics with Trump from day one. They should have called him out as a pig and selected a strong leader who could show clean underwear when debating Clinton's soiled panties. Her stink is as bad as Trump's.

Her sewage and muck whether it be her defence of her husband, her questionable lobby and back-room deals, her real estate deals leading to homicide, her failed foreign polic, simply show her for what she is a cold, calculated sob. I think if she was NOT a woman she would not have gone this far with Trump. They've used his being a pig to giver her the TRUMP card on gender politics and women votes.

As for Trump, he's a self destructive mentally ill wacko.

For that reason her stink is less stink than his but by default.

No one should have any delusions as to her abilities. She's just another of a long line of corrupt sob's that contaminate the name of politics. She and her husband are sewage.

However if its her finger or Trump's on the button it has to be hers. As much as I detest her ethics and politics she knows the reality of the insanity inside the white house. She will have the least amount of learning curve of any US President. Her being a woman to me is irrelevant in that sense. Her competence to deal with the white house is fact just because of her exposure as first lady, senator and secretary of state.

No one can say she is not qualified. My issue is her stink not her qualifications-its the smell of bad ethics. Then again to think any politician today gets to where they are without rolling in excrement is naïve.

Argus · October 13, 2016

5 minutes ago, Rue said:

I think Hilary Clinton is a a serial liar and a deliberate one. She's been knee deep in questionable lobbying, real estate deals and business deals that made hearself wealthy using her offices. That is documented.

Okay. So pick one thing and provide the documentation.

I'm not saying she's lilly white but everything I've looked into seems pretty routine at her level. Given she's been subjected to a continuing stream of fanatic Republican investigation and rumor mongering for two decades now I'm not surprised there's a lot of 'stuff' out there. But I want actual hard evidence.

Btw, foreign policy is not decided by the Secretary of State's office. It's decided by the White House, and implemented by the Secretary Of State. The Secretary will make recommendations, but the decisions are ultimately not hers.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Argus