Did he say it or not?

[Topaz]

A Tory MP is accused of calling a member of a provincial government a whore but I'm not sure if he did so what's your opinion on what the said. If u move the video forward to 1:39, u will hear what he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/19/tory-mp-denies-calling-ndp-candidate-whore-in-video.html

[kimmy]

Tom Lukiwski, everybody, the only guy in Saskatchewan who pronounces "horde" with a silent D.

He said it, he knows he said it, and he's not sorry he said it.

He also said

"There's A's and there's B's. The A's are guys like me, the B's are homosexual faggots with dirt on their fingernails that transmit diseases."

He said he's really sorry he said that as well. Is he sorry he said it? Or is he just sorry that he got caught saying it?

That isn't a guy telling an off-color joke. Those are the words of a guy with hate in his heart. The only thing he's really sorry about is that his bosses won't let him tell those filthy little faggots what he really thinks of them.

And he's sorry he's not allowed to say what he really thinks of Karen Purdy either.

-k

[ReeferMadness]

He's such an ass.

What? No! You misheard me... I said he had CLASS!!

[Bryan]

A Tory MP is accused of calling a member of a provincial government a whore but I'm not sure if he did so what's your opinion on what the said. If u move the video forward to 1:39, u will hear what he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/19/tory-mp-denies-calling-ndp-candidate-whore-in-video.html

The writer of the article you linked to sure seems to think it was horde:

“Socialist horde” or “NDP horde” have been common terms for New Democrats among journalists and political staff.

[kimmy]

After watching the video, do you really think he said "horde"? Was the "D" annunciated at an audio frequency that only canines and Conservative apologists can hear?

-k

[TimG]

After watching the video, do you really think he said "horde"? Was the "D" annunciated at an audio frequency that only canines and Conservative apologists can hear?

I find the binary choices to be too limiting. I think is more plausible that he thought he was saying 'horde' but enunciated poorly producing something that sounded like 'whore' to some people. However, I know the anti-conservative partisans would never accept that possibility because they would much rather score cheap rhetorical points. Edited November 20, 2015 by TimG

[kimmy]

Given his earlier comments regarding the filthy homosexual faggots with dirt under their fingernails, I'm not inclined to think this is a guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the shit that comes from his mouth.

-k

[drummindiver]

So what. Mulcair called someone a slut and had to pay $95 grand in a defamation suit and some ppl wanted him to run the country,

[drummindiver]

Given his earlier comments regarding the filthy homosexual faggots with dirt under their fingernails, I'm not inclined to think this is a guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the shit that comes from his mouth.

-k

So you know, my "so what" comment was to the op, not to this.

I didn't know he had said this.

[TimG]

Given his earlier comments regarding the filthy homosexual faggots with dirt under their fingernails, I'm not inclined to think this is a guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the shit that comes from his mouth.

The fact that they had to go back 25 years to find a comparable comment is really evidence that he has learned self restraint. It is simply not plausible to claim that a politician who has been in the business for as long as he has would intentionally say something as ridiculous as being alleged. Call it a Freudian slip if you must but I really doubt he intended to use the word 'whore' even if that is what some people heard. Edited November 20, 2015 by TimG

[kimmy]

So your vote is with "silent D"?

-k

[Hal 9000]

The first 2 or 3 times I thought he was saying "whore", but watching the video a little closer, and listening to his other words, I'm convinced that what he has is a type of Microglossia which is a speech impediment caused by an enlarged tongue. You can see it clearly when he uses S words.

[TimG]

So your vote is with "silent D"?

I am saying you can draw no conclusions about what he intended to say from the tape. People mis-speak all of the time. I discovered this helping people learning English to understand recordings of events on YouTube. I have lost track of the number of times that people are recorded saying things that make no sense but my native English speaker's ear simply fixes the problems from the context without noticing them. Edited November 20, 2015 by TimG

[TimG]

The first 2 or 3 times I thought he was saying "whore", but watching the video a little closer, and listening to his other words, I'm convinced that what he has is a type of Microglossia which is a speech impediment caused by an enlarged tongue. You can see it clearly when he uses S words.

I listened to the entire video. Given the moderate tone of the entire speech you would have to be a rabid anti-conservative partisan to believe he intended to use the word 'whore'. Edited November 20, 2015 by TimG

[The_Squid]

I listened to the entire video. Given the moderate tone of the entire speech you would have to be a rabid anti-conservative partisan to believe he intended to use the word 'whore'.

LOL

You might be right, if there wasn't audio!

Except there is audio of him saying "whore"...

And "horde" makes no sense whatsoever.... WHAT NDP horde would he be talking about???

[TimG]

Except there is audio of him saying "whore"...

Except what you hear on the audio is completely irrelevant. What is being discussed is what he intended to say and after listening to the rest of the speech the only thing that makes sense is that he intended to say 'horde' because the inflammatory rhetoric implied by the word 'whore' does not fit in the moderate tone of the rest of the speech. Talking about the 'socialist hordes' makes much more sense.

Also, if you listened to the entire speech, you hear he used "Liberal" when he clearly meant "NDP" which makes it even harder to argue that he intended to use the word 'whore'.

Of course, anti-conservative partisans will ignore logic and common sense and continue to insist he said something he did not.

Edited November 20, 2015 by TimG

[ReeferMadness]

He certainly said whore. As for the argument that me meant horde, I agree that his tone doesn't sound angry or vicious but that doesn't mean he didn't say whore. He could be the type of person who uses derogatory language casually and just forgot that he was being recorded. In the context of the sentence "he's too important of an MLA to let go down to an NDP ...", the word horde doesn't really fit.

To me the key word is "an" because it implies a particular individual out of many. Would you say "an NDP horde"? That would be unnatural because it would imply there are a bunch of NDP hordes and he is going to lose to one of them. If he meant to say horde, he would have said "the NDP horde", not "an NDP horde".

The other reason that horde doesn't fit very well is he's saying that he doesn't want an individual candidate to lose to something or someone. It only makes sense for a candidate to lose to another candidate. He can't very well lose to a "horde".

[ReeferMadness]

There is one other interesting aspect to this story and that is that the Moosejaw Times-Herald tried to bury this video. The only reason we're seeing it is because reporter Mickey Djuric had the integrity and fortitude to resign rather than see it get buried.

I think the Times-Herald has some 'splainin' to do.

[TimG]

As for the argument that me meant horde, I agree that his tone doesn't sound angry or vicious but that doesn't mean he didn't say whore.

Does not mean he did. This was no "money and the ethnic vote" drunken rant. It was a relatively humble acknowledgement of the electoral reality. An egregious personal attack does not make any sense given the context.

He could be the type of person who uses derogatory language casually and just forgot that he was being recorded.

If he was people would have heard about it before now. He has been in politics for 20+ years and the only prior incident is from 25 years ago.

To me the key word is "an" because it implies a particular individual out of many. Would you say "an NDP horde"?

Given the other outright errors in the speech, such as substituting the word Liberal when NDP was intended, you cannot make an argument by parsing grammar. Also members of the 'socialist hordes' don't typically use that phrasing to describe themselves so you are not really in a position to say whether it makes sense in the context. From the POV of conservative partisans 'NDP hordes' is the only thing that makes sense and that is what they would have took it as. The only reason this is a story is because anti-conservative partisan masquerading as a reporter was at the event.

There is one other interesting aspect to this story and that is that the Moosejaw Times-Herald tried to bury this video. The only reason we're seeing it is because reporter Mickey Djuric had the integrity and fortitude to resign rather than see it get buried.

I am sure media outlets get plenty recordings where politicians say things that could be misinterpreted if someone was determined to ignore the context. The only reason to run this smear job is because someone has a political agenda and clearly this reporter cannot separate her political biases from her reporting. I heard her interviewed where she admitted she was not really listening to the context and is simply jumping on the word she thought she heard to make a name for herself. I am pretty sure she was already planning on quitting her job and this was just a pretext (journalism is a tough field to be in today - people don't quit on principal if they actually need the job). Edited November 20, 2015 by TimG

[Topaz]

After reading the comments and listening several times to the tape, I've come to the conclusion that the Tory may have meant "hordes" meaning a group of people, referring to the NDP BUT it does sound like "whore", so maybe he better watch how he says some words in the future.

[Boges]

LOL

You might be right, if there wasn't audio!

Except there is audio of him saying "whore"...

And "horde" makes no sense whatsoever.... WHAT NDP horde would he be talking about???

The ones that may be elected. It did sound like he said whore. But no one is that dumb to call a politician a whore in public. An NDP whore vs and NDP whore, either sounds plausible.

Not like JT calling a Cabinet Minister a POS or anything.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Boges

[poochy]

The ones that may be elected. It did sound like he said whore. But no one is that dumb to call a politician a whore in public. An NDP whore vs and NDP whore, either sounds plausible.

Not like JT calling a Cabinet Minister a POS or anything.

That's different..anyway, if he said it, he should be gone.

[scribblet]

In fairness, the full video provides some context.

In the full video, Lukiwski is asked repeatedly to do his impression of someone, and keeps saying.. "No, no, no", and then later caves and does the impression, hence the discussion of him being "f****** old", when he's 40 years old in the video. So basically, its a video of him making fun of a bigot.

Now, is it tasteless, yes, absolutely.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Michael Hardner
profanity

[Accountability Now]

I thought that insulting politicians with inappropriate language was the way to get ahead. I remember a certain MP from Quebec doing this in the House of Commons and he is now our Prime Minister.

[Guest]

I thought that insulting politicians with inappropriate language was the way to get ahead. I remember a certain MP from Quebec doing this in the House of Commons and he is now our Prime Minister.

That's not Trudeau, that's D'Artagnan. Kent's lucky he didn't run him through.

Edited November 20, 2015 by bcsapper