dialamah Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Further, you ignore the fact that many of the messages in the Koran which you suggest preach peace and tolerance are only referring to how Muslims should act towards other Muslims. How they should treat infidels has been posted many times before in this thread, all of which you completely ignore. You mean, the ones that say things like "Treat everyone well, or I'll tell God on you" or "You cannot force religion on to people" are only referring to other Muslims? That's ridiculous. The violent scriptures that you and others keep posting to prove Muslims have it in for us are specific to the time and place they were written. ISIS wants their followers to believe they're still applicable, and sadly their propaganda is working on you too. How about instead of trying to prove that Islam teaches violence, let's remind ourselves and all Muslims that the Quran teaches peace and tolerance, instead of telling ourselves and all Muslims how the Quran can be used to teach war? Wouldn't that be a good idea, hmm? Or are you in favor of war, fear, hatred and intolerance? Edited January 12, 2016 by dialamah
dialamah Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) And what breaks my heart is that womens' safety has been put at risk by this "gotta break a few eggs" attitude of their elected officials. To me, that seems about as sensible as hosting a mushroom tasting party when you don't know which mushrooms are safe and which ones are poisonous. Certainly once people start keeling over you know which mushrooms to stop serving your guests, but it's a little late for the ones who've already been poisoned. -k There are currently in the neighborhood of 350,000 Muslims in this country. Some have been here for decades. How many women been sexually assaulted as a direct result of their presence in this country? Yes, there is a risk that a woman in this country will be sexually assaulted: 1 chance in 4. There is also a chance that the man will be Muslim or of Middle Eastern origin, but the most likely perpetrator is going to be a white guy. Why aren't you out there trying to save us women from white guys? In any case, realistically, it hardly matters if the assaulter is Christian, Muslim, White, Brown or purple. There is no possible way that bringing a few thousand more men of any nationality or religion, is going to change that statistic of 25% of all women suffer some kind of sexual assault. To suggest so is simply hyperbolic and xenophobic. If we were having millions of refugees crash our borders, including large numbers of young men, I'd agree there was reason for concern. But that is not our situation, and it's very unlikely to be. Edited January 12, 2016 by dialamah
Argus Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Actually, I say "Gray" while you demand "Black' or "White". That is untrue. You are a wholesale apologist for Islam and Islamic violence and cultural backwardness. As to wars, Who is talking about wars? This is simply another desperate attempt at distraction. I am talking about the violence and intolerance of Muslim societies TODAY, not what wars they have launched or fought. If you want to talk about Islamic wars we can start with the 400 million Hindus slaughtered in India by Islamic conquerors, though. Makes the Holocaust seem like small change. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 How about instead of trying to prove that Islam teaches violence, let's remind ourselves and all Muslims that the Quran teaches peace and tolerance, instead of telling ourselves and all Muslims how the Quran can be used to teach war? Wouldn't that be a good idea, hmm? Or are you in favor of war, fear, hatred and intolerance? I'm certainly not in favour of war, fear, hatred and intolerance, which is why I\m not in favour of bringing over more Muslims. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 There are currently in the neighborhood of 350,000 Muslims in this country. Some have been here for decades. How many women been sexually assaulted as a direct result of their presence in this country? Yes, there is a risk that a woman in this country will be sexually assaulted: 1 chance in 4. There is also a chance that the man will be Muslim or of Middle Eastern origin, but the most likely perpetrator is going to be a white guy. Why aren't you out there trying to save us women from white guys? What are the statistics on what race rapes and assaults women the most? Why do progressives forbid the police from keeping such statistics? It certainly isn't because it will show that white men are the most guilty! If that were the case progressives would be trumpeting the news from every newspaper headline and tv news discussion show! I'm sure this sort of thing happens every day across Canada. No mention of races involved but I think we can infer something from the names of those who are being tried. She was testifying as the first witness at the trial of four Ottawa men accused in the 2013 gang sex attack of a 15-year-old girl near the OC Transpo Blair station. ... Warsama Youssouf, Maher Fafayi, Christian Kadima and Hanten Hersi are on trial for sexual assault, sexual interference and forcible confinement. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/it-was-someone-looking-for-help-ottawa-gang-sex-attack-trial-hears-about-girls-screams "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) What are the statistics on what race rapes and assaults women the most? Why do progressives forbid the police from keeping such statistics? Please cite any evidence that it is specifically *progressives* who limit such data. This article clearly points out that the Conservatives were just as uninterested in looking too closely at that data as any other government. And personally, as 'progressive', I'd be happy to have that information. If certain groups are more inclined to violent crime than others, lets have actual proof instead of guesses and assumptions based on incomplete information and fear-mongering. The States does keep statistics, though. And here is what they have regarding rape: Total Caucasion Black Native/Alaskan native Asian/Pacific Islander Forcible rape, by numbers: 13,886 9,027 4,512 183 164 Forcible rape, by percentage 100.0 65.0 32.5 1.3 1.2 Please note that the US has about two and a half million Muslims; lets assume that only 1/4 of those are of 'raping age and gender' - that's a total of 625,000 potential perpetrators. Still, they are barely a BLIP on the FBIs list of crime by race stats, lumped in a category that basically means "other". As a matter of fact, it is indeed the white guys who carry out the most rapes - 70% in fact. Exactly as I said: if a woman is going to be raped in a Western country, it's most likely going to be a white guy. And, guess what - if a woman in the ME is going to be raped, it's probably going to be by a Muslim. Probably even you can figure out why that would be. I can also bring out news stories in which women are clearly raped by white guys, singly and in groups, so I'm not even going to bother. Edited January 12, 2016 by dialamah
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 I can also bring out news stories in which women are clearly raped by white guys, singly and in groups, so I'm not even going to bother. Islam isn't a race of people. Even white guys can join Islam...and do. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Please cite any evidence that it is specifically *progressives* who limit such data. Don't be absurd. Of course it is. It always has been. The (l)iberal elites know better than us common people, and don't want us to have information which we are clearly unable to handle properly. The States does keep statistics, though. And here is what they have regarding rape: As a matter of fact, it is indeed the white guys who carry out the most rapes - 70% in fact. The FBI crime stats are based upon the US definition of races which is made by the US Office of Management and Budget. It says so right in the FBI crime stats. Updated Race and Ethnicity Collection Categories—To comply with the race and ethnicity designations specified by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget and https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/cjis-link/december-2012/Countdown%20Begins%20for%20New%20UCR%20Data%20Collections%20and%20Initiatives%20Coming%20January%201 Until very recently, the definition of "white" included Hispanics and Latinos. They were separated out a couple of years ago but it is going to take quite a while for all the state and municipal police organizations to also separate these stats out to get a better idea of who is committing crimes. Those of middle eastern background are still, however, considered to be "white" for the purpose of these statistics. White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-15-089.html "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Don't be absurd. Of course it is. It always has been. Prove it. Telling me I'm absurd is not proof. Saying it always has been isn't proof. Saying "liberal elites have always known better than the rest of us" isn't proof. Showing me policy written by Liberal governments or police departments, specifically stating that race statistics should not be collected would be proof. Showing me active and extensive opposition by Conservative governments/politicians or police departments to this policy would be proof. Otherwise your statements are nothing but empty, partisan rhetoric. Until you are willing and able to provide proof of your statements, I see no point in continuing this conversation with you.
eyeball Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Of course you're not really making a nazi reference, the insinuation that anyone, including whoever it was that you were responding to, is wanting it their way, that being the way of those seen as the historically most far right (though some debate that), would be an incredibly unreasonable thing to write and clearly not something anyone would do, even in a back handed fashion. Perhaps you should elaborate on who they really are and what the solution would be so we can clearly associate the solution with those here who want it that way, lest their be any confusion.Nazis obviously, or neo-Nazis as they're called now. You're unaware of the deep fear of these ever rising in Europe again?I was concerned about the rise of these back about ten years ago when it was obvious the widening chaos throughout the ME would cause millions of refugees fleeing north, with predictable results. Never mind...just a case of broken clocks being right occasionally. You see that all the time around here. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Nazis obviously, or neo-Nazis as they're called now. You're unaware of the deep fear of these ever rising in Europe again? Perhaps Islam and the neo-Nazis will get their agendas straight. They have common foes. Happened before. Edited January 12, 2016 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Keep it over there Lord keep it over there. Oops too late Edited January 12, 2016 by eyeball A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Keep it over there Lord keep it over there. Oops too late I don't think a thousand bomber raid over Hamburg is going to do the trick this time, Canada. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 It's likelier we'll be on their side this time. And wait till climate change starts forcing a good chunk humanity to hit the road. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 It most assuredly does not. You can say white while I say black all day long, but the evidence is in the manner and behaviour of Muslim societies. There are NONE which are peaceful and tolerant NONE. There are over fifty Muslim majority states and not one is anything like peaceful and tolerant. Further, you ignore the fact that many of the messages in the Koran which you suggest preach peace and tolerance are only referring to how Muslims should act towards other Muslims. How they should treat infidels has been posted many times before in this thread, all of which you completely ignore. I find it interesting that you seem to think you can interpret the Koran and determine its exact meaning while even Western Islamic scholars, who actually can read Arabic, can't. Mind you, interpreting the bible to meet ones own personal wishes to engage in wars etc. has worked for Christians.
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 It's likelier we'll be on their side this time. And wait till climate change starts forcing a good chunk humanity to hit the road. Their side? The N@zis? That I doubt. However, Islam and Nazism agree on a few points. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 I find it interesting that you seem to think you can interpret the Koran and determine its exact meaning while even Western Islamic scholars, who actually can read Arabic, can't. Mind you, interpreting the bible to meet ones own personal wishes to engage in wars etc. has worked for Christians. Are you saying that God only can be understood in Arabic? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Their side? The N@zis? That I doubt. However, Islam and Nazism agree on a few points.Well be on Europe's side come Hell or high water. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Are you saying that God only can be understood in Arabic?Yeah and I didn't know Argus speaks it as well.
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Yeah and I didn't know Argus speaks it as well. Therefore, everybody who doesn't understand Arabic can not possibly understand the Quran? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Well be on Europe's side come Hell or high water. That's not the Nazis...you implied Canada would side with the Nazis in your post. I say that no...Canada would not side with the Nazis. Clear enough? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Therefore, everybody who doesn't understand Arabic can not possibly understand the Quran?What I said was people who do understand the language it was written in don't agree to it's meaning. Clear enough?
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 What I said was people who do understand the language it was written in don't agree to it's meaning. Clear enough? Not really. I'm asking you if it is your opinion that the Quran can only be understood in Arabic. Does the Quran need to be read in Arabic to be understood? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Not really. I'm asking you if it is your opinion that the Quran can only be understood in Arabic. Does the Quran need to be read in Arabic to be understood? I can't read it in Arabic and I doubt you ca either. So if I want to read it I need it translated into English. That means I need to rely on someone elses interpretation, and they often don't agree. I can't make it much simpler.
DogOnPorch Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 I can't read it in Arabic and I doubt you ca either. So if I want to read it I need it translated into English. That means I need to rely on someone elses interpretation, and they often don't agree. I can't make it much simpler. Again...my question was: Does the Quran need to be read in Arabic to be understood? Do we need to dwell on this? If you aren't sure, please just say so. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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