overthere Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/crude-oil-tanker-traffic-moratorium-bc-north-coast-1.3318086 With the new moratorium on coastal tankers imposed by Trudeau, the pipeline is done like dinner now. Supposedly it the is 'north BC' coast, but of course BC has no coast a few kms north of Prince Rupert, which is about where Alaska starts. It is an end run around his own federal agency, the NEB, which approved the pipeline some time ago. How long until he finds a way to cancel or indefintiely delay the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion? Or will he seek a cancellation entirely of the existing KInder Morgan line, which has operated with tankers out of Burnaby for some 60+ years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/crude-oil-tanker-traffic-moratorium-bc-north-coast-1.3318086 With the new moratorium on coastal tankers imposed by Trudeau, the pipeline is done like dinner now. Excellent news! How long until he finds a way to cancel or indefintiely delay the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion? Or will he seek a cancellation entirely of the existing KInder Morgan line, which has operated with tankers out of Burnaby for some 60+ years?I would have thought the poor outlook for oil alone would be enough to make Kinder Morgan shelve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Excellent news! I would have thought the poor outlook for oil alone would be enough to make Kinder Morgan shelve it. No, industry knows that business is cyclical and projects that require billions like ports, pipelines and oilsands development will have peaks and valleys. In the meantime, the appetite of Canadians for a fat social contract grows unabated, with the future having less and less means to pay for it. Oh well, somebody will pay for it all. In the meantime, the hypocrties in BC are content to ship plenty of filthy coal, and to dump rivers of untreated shit into the ocean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 No, industry knows that business is cyclical and projects that require billions like ports, pipelines and oilsands development will have peaks and valleys. In the meantime, the appetite of Canadians for a fat social contract grows unabated, with the future having less and less means to pay for it. Oh well, somebody will pay for it all. In the meantime, the hypocrties in BC are content to ship plenty of filthy coal, and to dump rivers of untreated shit into the ocean. Many are not content at all, and will be damned if they're going to sit around and watch someone only add more crap to the flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Many are not content at all, and will be damned if they're going to sit around and watch someone only add more crap to the flow. The "vast majority" are very content...they've been doing it for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 How long until he finds a way to cancel or indefintiely delay the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion? Or will he seek a cancellation entirely of the existing KInder Morgan line, which has operated with tankers out of Burnaby for some 60+ years? The Liberals support Trans Mountain and KXL. They promised to kill Northern Gateway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Excellent decision. It would never have been built anyway. BC didn't want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Excellent decision. It would never have been built anyway. BC didn't want it. I think you're right. I think Trans Mountain is far more likely to get built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 The Liberals support Trans Mountain and KXL. They promised to kill Northern Gateway. How can you have both a moratorium of west coast tankers, and export oil via tanker on an expanded Kinder Morgan line? The current Kinder Morgan line (which was called Trans Mountain for about 50 years) ships some of its output to Wasington State via (gasp!) pipleine, and some goes offshore on tankers. The new expanded line would ship all the new oil offshore. I just don't see Trudau and Co. having the political stones to make the KM line happen. More likely they will dither for a decade or two in an endless round of so of transparency or consultation, by which time the company will have just moved their money elsewhere in the world., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Many are not content at all, and will be damned if they're going to sit around and watch someone only add more crap to the flow. Of course they are content, I don't see David Suzuki pirouettiing in front of mass demonstrations/cameras in front of coal exporting ships or the rivers of shit dumped by Victoria into the ocean.] Hypocrites all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Many are not content at all, and will be damned if they're going to sit around and watch someone only add more crap to the flow. Which is what banning pipeline will do, since rail is much more prone to spills than pipe. It is not about real, calculated, objective concern for the environment. If it was, pipelines are the obvious better choice. It is about the symbolic value of the 'pipeline' as a the great emblem of evil. Edited November 16, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 How can you have both a moratorium of west coast tankers, and export oil via tanker on an expanded Kinder Morgan line? There's no moratorium on tanker traffic to Vancouver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Which is what banning pipeline will do, since rail is much more prone to spills than pipe. It is not about real, calculated, objective concern for the environment. If it was, pipelines are the obvious better choice. It is about the symbolic value of the 'pipeline' as a the great emblem of evil. One thing at a time. As for real, calculated, objective concern for the environment we're applying a carbon tax on every lump of coal we sell while the peanut gallery pontificates about hypocrisy. I guess that's two things now. What have you got to show for yourself? Edited November 16, 2015 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 As I have always said, Harper is going to have the last laugh and he laughing now. You guys wanted change now we have it. He is going to screw the economy and play the worlds coward. And the world just found out what a lite weight this kid is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 There's no moratorium on tanker traffic to Vancouver.Oh right, that is an entirely different ocean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Oh right, that is an entirely different ocean. They used the words northern BC for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Oh right, that is an entirely different ocean. "North coast" is the same ocean, but Trudeau didn't mention the entire coast or the Pacific Ocean. I highlighted the location below. Maybe check a map. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called for a moratorium on crude oil tanker traffic for B.C.'s North Coast. We don't need this in BC. Edited November 16, 2015 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 One thing at a time. As for real, calculated, objective concern for the environment we're applying a carbon tax on every lump of coal we sell while the peanut gallery pontificates about hypocrisy. I guess that's two things now. What have you got to show for yourself? Your point is not clear here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 We don't need this in BC. As long as you also don't need electricity or transportation, then that's reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 There are other sources, hitops. The fossil fuel era is over. It is not a good investment anymore. Smart money invests in renewables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) There are other sources, hitops. The fossil fuel era is over. It is not a good investment anymore. Smart money invests in renewables. There are no other sources that are widely available and not reliant on fossil fuels to make them exist. I'm not sure what you consider 'over', but fossil fuels still power the lion's share of world activities. Regarding smart money, many billionaires have been minted off the shale boom. Must be stupid I guess. Precious few from green energy. A number or very wealthy people have invested in green tech (like Christie Walton), and consequently lost a ton of money, however. Edited November 17, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 As long as you also don't need electricity or transportation, then that's reasonable. What about not having a pipeline running through sensitive ecosystems prevents us from having electricity or transportation? You do know that the pipeline isn't a power line or a road, right? What a strange argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Maybe check a map.Having driven perhaps 20 times along the Stewart- Cassiar road to the Yukon, I know that country far better than you. Perhaps you should check a map, where you will surely notice that there is no 'northern BC coast' . It does not exist. The Canadian coast ends just north of Prince Rupert, about halfway up the province of BC. So what exactly have Trudeaus ministers been told to make happen in regard to a tanker moratorium? What si the extent of the moratorium? The hypocrites of BC are content to export their filthy coal offshore, and dump billions of litres of raw sewage into an ocean they pretend to cherish. No surprise there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 What about not having a pipeline running through sensitive ecosystems prevents us from having electricity or transportation? You do know that the pipeline isn't a power line or a road, right? What a strange argument. All ecosystems are sensitive, but it seems BC residents are generally more arrogant than in other parts of the country. O i know, you don't need an oil spill in BC! As if any other place needs one...but hey, you will keep using that oil, and in your arrogance imagine that you shouldn't bear any of the burdens associated with it's production or transport. Leave that up to the other coast, because surely a place like this https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sZI0KLdKhUA/maxresdefault.jpg http://vacay1.vacayca.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/orig_p060002_18rr-e1341275207543.jpg http://www.tourismnewbrunswick.ca/~/media/Images/TNB/Website/Products/F/FundyTrail/Fundy%20Trail%20coastline0001robroytssjpeg.jpeg http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/B97202015Z.120130709150448000GRA3AI1E.11.jpg Should bear that burden, but not BC, not because it's ecosystems are so special, but apparently because it's residents are very 'special' indeed. Strange arguments? Yea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) There are no other sources that are widely available and not reliant on fossil fuels to make them exist. I'm not sure what you consider 'over', but fossil fuels still power the lion's share of world activities. Regarding smart money, many billionaires have been minted off the shale boom. Must be stupid I guess. Precious few from green energy. A number or very wealthy people have invested in green tech (like Christie Walton), and consequently lost a ton of money, however. The fossil fuel era is over.The wave of the future is moving on without you. Bye! ? Eta http://m.thestar.com/#/article/business/2015/11/16/ontario-pension-funds-lost-24b-from-oil-coal-investments-report.html Edited November 17, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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