Trudeau's Committment to Syrian Refugees - 25,000 by Year End

[Argus]

And you pulled that number from....?

If the Danes are budgeting $2 billion for next year to look after 33,000 refugees I'd say it will cost us at least a billion to look after 25,000. And I don't expect that number to go down much over the following years. None of these people speak English. Most have poor educations, and if we rush into grabbing any warm body, as the Liberals seem to be intending on, most likely most will have no transferable job skills. I expect the taxpayer will mostly be supporting these people for the rest of their lives.

[Keepitsimple]

Given the following, what would the US think about Canada bringing 25,000 Syrian refugees within a few miles of their borders? They might end up building that wall after all. Trudeau is a breath of fresh air compared to that hard-hearted, uncaring Obama, right?

In the four years since the Syrian civil war began the U.S. has taken in only 1,300 Syrians, despite the hundreds of thousands admitted by nations around the world. Following the mass arrivals onto European shores in recent weeks and the clamor for Western countries to do more, the White House announced that the U.S. would up its intake of Syrian refugees to 10,000 in the next fiscal year.

But extensive background check requirements and a lengthy processing procedure could mean that not only will those refugees take more than a year to arrive, but that the number that is finally admitted could be much lower.

“The U.S. background check process for Syrian refugees can last anywhere from 12 months to indefinitely,” said Becca Heller, director of the Iraqi Refugee Assistance Project, a non-governmental organization that provides legal representation to Iraqi and Syrian refugees.

Link: http://www.vocativ.com/news/231688/obamas-pledge-to-syrian-refugees-may-take-years/

Edited November 2, 2015 by Keepitsimple

[Big Guy]

Every year there are thousands of illegal or undocumented immigrants who come into Canada and soon disappear into the population. Does anybody really believe that a terrorist would need the cover of refugee status, being investgated, sponsored and tracked in Canada?

There is no reason why Canada cannot absorb these people from the Middle East - and gain the benefits of increased, younger future citizens.

[Keepitsimple]

Every year there are thousands of illegal or undocumented immigrants who come into Canada and soon disappear into the population. Does anybody really believe that a terrorist would need the cover of refugee status, being investgated, sponsored and tracked in Canada?

There is no reason why Canada cannot absorb these people from the Middle East - and gain the benefits of increased, younger future citizens.

You can be a sympathizer and even an enabler - without being an actual "terrorist" per se. Very hard to weed out....but if we don't pay attention, those real terrorists that might be hiding among those "undocumented immigrants" you speak of will find a supportive network already in place. Mainstream Islamic terrorism (not the one-off nut cases) is very strategic and has made it clear they are willing to play a "long game". We naively ignore this reality at our own peril.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Keepitsimple

[Wilber]

Every year there are thousands of illegal or undocumented immigrants who come into Canada and soon disappear into the population. Does anybody really believe that a terrorist would need the cover of refugee status, being investgated, sponsored and tracked in Canada?

There is no reason why Canada cannot absorb these people from the Middle East - and gain the benefits of increased, younger future citizens.

Then why screen anyone before they come into the country?

[segnosaur]

There is no reason why Canada cannot absorb these people from the Middle East - and gain the benefits of increased, younger future citizens.

If a key part of your argument is "what benefits Canada", then wouldn't we (as a society) be better off to bring in people from places like Mexico or South America rather than Syria?

While both groups might contribute to population growth, those from the western hemisphere will (on average) probably be more familiar with our language and customs, and thus we will get both the benefit of increased population, while at the same time having them contribute to the Canadian economy much more quickly.

[socialist]

If a key part of your argument is "what benefits Canada", then wouldn't we (as a society) be better off to bring in people from places like Mexico or South America rather than Syria?

While both groups might contribute to population growth, those from the western hemisphere will (on average) probably be more familiar with our language and customs, and thus we will get both the benefit of increased population, while at the same time having them contribute to the Canadian economy much more quickly.

Seems like some Europeans are having second thoughts about committing national suicide.[/size]

[socialist]

Then why screen anyone before they come into the country?

A country can have a welfare state or it can have open borders, but it cannot have both.

In a world in which billions of people live in poverty and oppression, this is blindingly obvious. The current migration from the Middle East, Asia and North Africa into Europe will NOT end well.

The scores of THOUSANDS of Syrians in the Balkans, Hungary, Austria and Germany are only the first wave. Behind them in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan are 4 million refugees from the Syrian civil war. Seeing the success of the first wave, they are now on the move.

Behind them are 2 MILLION Alawites and 2 MILLION Christians who will be fleeing Syria when the Bashar Assad regime falls to ISIS and the al-Qaeda terrorists who already occupy half of that blood-soaked land.

Now the Iraqis, who live in a country the prospects for whose reunification and peace are receding, have begun to move. Also among the THOUSANDS pouring into Europe from Turkey are Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Afghans. When the Americans leave Afghanistan and the Taliban take their revenge, more Afghans will be fleeing west.

Africa has a BILLION people, a number that will double by 2050, and double again to 4 billion by 2100. Are those BILLIONS of Africans going to endure lives of poverty under ruthless, incompetent, corrupt and tyrannical regimes, if Europe’s door remains wide open???

There is no end in sight to the coming Third World and Islamic migrations to Europe.

What is to stop the Islamic world and Third World from coming and repopulating the continent with their own kind, as the shrinking native populations of Europe die out???

Will Old Europe be recognizable even in ten years from now? How about 20 years?

“Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide,” wrote James Burnham in his 1964 “Suicide of the West.”

[On Guard for Thee]

You have evidence refugees in Turkey are being killed?

They become refugees when they leave their native country for fear of being killed.

[Keepitsimple]

There is no end in sight to the coming Third World and Islamic migrations to Europe.

What is to stop the Islamic world and Third World from coming and repopulating the continent with their own kind, as the shrinking native populations of Europe die out???

Will Old Europe be recognizable even in ten years from now? How about 20 years?

“Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide,” wrote James Burnham in his 1964 “Suicide of the West.”

A very unsettling truth......

[Big Guy]

"What means the paying of the passage and emptying out upon our shores such floods of pauper emigrants — the contents of the poor house and the sweepings of the streets? — multiplying tumults and violence, filling our prisons, and crowding our poor-houses, and quadrupling our taxation, and sending annually accumulating thousands to the poll to lay their inexperienced hand upon the helm of our power?"

- Lyman Beecher, Leader of the Second Great Awakening, on English immigrants, 1834

"They are coming in such numbers and we are unable adequately to take care of them…It simply amounts to unrestricted and indiscriminate dumping into this country of people of every character and description…If there were in existence a ship that could hold three million human beings, then three million Jews of Poland would board to escape to America."

-Congressional hearing, 1920

We have come a long way in the last 100 years - have we not?

[poochy]

We have come a long way in the last 100 years - have we not?

O tell us more stories about things that were wrong before and cannot have different outcomes in other contexts. Or maybe they can. Of course there are no stories of immigration having actual negative effects on the original population, never ever happens.

[WestCanMan]

Stalinesque Israelis? American presidents?

Okay, I guess we know where you're coming from.

Oh I bet you don't, and yes I was absolutely bang-on re: the comment about US Presidents. Obama did it propmtly within his first week as prez. They all do. You'll see another one do it in January if you pay attention.

90% of the people I talk to about the "blessed Israelies" have no idea that the country is only 66 years old or that the Likud party was founded as a terrorist organization. If you can't imagine Hamas or Hezbollah ever being considered legitimate political parties then you shouldn't just cater to the likud-led Israelis or their modus operandi either. They have national holidays honouring actual war criminals.

The only way that anyone can ever justify even a portion of what the Israelis have done over there is "as retaliation", but for what? The holocaust? That was Hitler and Germany, not the Palestinians (ironically the current israeli prez Ben N just accused a Palestinian of giving Hitler the idea to kill all the jews about a week ago). Jews were allowed to purchase land and live in Palestine before WWII and the Palestinians were far better hosts than the Israelis are. The palestinians should actually be the ones to cry "retaliation" but they are just muslims in the eyes of most canadians, and that means somewhat less than human. It's pummelled into your conscious and sub-conscious mind by our hyper-biased media.

FWIW if the fate of the Jews is a big deal to you then you could just as easily be pissed off at Canada and the US for turning their noses up at the refugees from the end of WWII.

I don't condone the actions of terrorists or mainstream Israelis, but I also don't pretend to have the answers. I grew up fat and happy like all canadians do and the complications of the life they all face is far beyond anything that I ever want to experience. But I have approximately the same stance re: Israel as Amnesty Int'l does. Call their credibility into question if you like. I don't really give a rip.

[Argus]

Oh I bet you don't, and yes I was absolutely bang-on re: the comment about US Presidents. Obama did it propmtly within his first week as prez. They all do. You'll see another one do it in January if you pay attention.

90% of the people I talk to about the "blessed Israelies" have no idea that the country is only 66 years old

Yeah, okay. Probably a big old Jewish conspiracy, and only those rare, insightful people like you know anything about it.

But the thing is, your posting reeks of ignorance. It doesn't sound like you know the first thing about the Arab Israeli conflict or its history, or the history of Israel beyond what you read in some brief anti-Israeli screed.

[WestCanMan]

Yeah, okay. Probably a big old Jewish conspiracy, and only those rare, insightful people like you know anything about it.

But the thing is, your posting reeks of ignorance. It doesn't sound like you know the first thing about the Arab Israeli conflict or its history, or the history of Israel beyond what you read in some brief anti-Israeli screed

Amnesty International Report 2014/15

Israeli forces committed war crimes and human rights violations during a 50-day military offensive in the Gaza Strip that killed over 1,500 civilians, including 539 children, wounded thousands more civilians, and caused massive civilian displacement and destruction of property and vital services. Israel maintained its air, sea and land blockade of Gaza, imposing collective punishment on its approximately 1.8 million inhabitants and stoking the humanitarian crisis. In the West Bank, Israeli forces carried out unlawful killings of Palestinian protesters, including children, and maintained an array of oppressive restrictions on Palestinians’ freedom of movement while continuing to promote illegal settlements and allow Israeli settlers to attack Palestinians and destroy their property with near total impunity. Israeli forces detained thousands of Palestinians, some of whom reported being tortured, and held around 500 administrative detainees without trial.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

[WestCanMan]

So the above post contains just one recent example of an "anti-Israeli screed". Over the past 7 decades there have been several, but the western media sees the world thru judao-christian coloured goggles. This story from a western perspective would be summed up as "Israel retaliated, evened the score, bad people dead, HALLELUJAH!" The UN has had more resolutions against Israel than any other country in it's entire history. Amnesty International isn't a fan of the Israelis either. But you can call me a hater who's viewpoint is governed by really bad radicals if it floats your boat.

If you looked at the world through the eyes of an atheist, or a true neutral, with concern for people regardless of their religion, skin colour or cultural background you would have an entirely different opinion. The lives of Palestinian children would matter to you. The access that they have to education and health care would matter. Their job opportunities. Just pretend they aren't muslims and you can do it.

I'm not asking you to hate Israelis. I'm just informing you that they invented terrorism in the middle east, and they venerate their terrorists, the likud party was born and bred as terrorists (and that's something that you can just google) so don't be fooled into believing that they are angels. Allow that to sink in and to wear away at your belief that this is strictly a good vs evil issue. Both sides need to own up to their share of blame.

Truth is that 66 years after the inception of the country of Israel their citizens have nowhere to go. They need to stay where they are, just like the caucasians and asians who were born and raised in this country can't just vacate it and leave it to the first nations people. You can't put the toothpaste into the tube and there's noone on earth who still lives within 20 km of their forefathers if you go back far enough. But the bottom line is that the Israelis simply aren't good enough as human beings to earn the loyalty and devotion that we have shown them. They need to be better. They need to stop their quest for "lebensraum", they need to think more along the lines of the golden rule and less of the first commandment (which is basically a license to discriminate against those who honour another god). I'm ok with this country supporting them, but not in the high-handed manner in which they have been acting since I was born.

Edited November 8, 2015 by WestCanMan

[notca]

This was a pivotal commitment by the Liberals. It played on the emotions of all those people who saw that poor child washed up on the beach - and it turned those emotions against a Prime Minister who was castigated as cold and heartless by "only" committing to 10,000 per year.

It's an important commitment to watch - one that will be straight forward to measure......just as they criticized the previous government - are they in Canada or not? It will be either the confirmation of a caring, action-oriented government - or the beginning of a recognition that Trudeau and his advisers are nothing but wolves in sheep's clothing - and can't be trusted.

This will probably be the unpopular opinion and will no doubt get me accusations of racism..

I do think people are thinking with their emotions rather than with their heads regarding refugees. I thought from the start that something was odd about the sudden exodus of refugees from Syria. There does appear to be a large number of infiltrators among them. This was the intelligence that Harper received and why he took pause to check it out before throwing the border wide open.

The generous acceptance of the refugees in Europe is beginning to turn sour; I think the same thing will happen here in short order and furthermore, I think the situation is dangerous to our security and to the quality of our lives.

Enough said, I could write volumes to explain my negativity about the refugees but people will make up their own minds. I sincerely hope the admittance of the refugees will not come back to bite us on the bum but I remain alarmed.

[WestCanMan]

This will probably be the unpopular opinion and will no doubt get me accusations of racism..

I do think people are thinking with their emotions rather than with their heads regarding refugees. I thought from the start that something was odd about the sudden exodus of refugees from Syria. There does appear to be a large number of infiltrators among them. This was the intelligence that Harper received and why he took pause to check it out before throwing the border wide open.

The generous acceptance of the refugees in Europe is beginning to turn sour; I think the same thing will happen here in short order and furthermore, I think the situation is dangerous to our security and to the quality of our lives.

Enough said, I could write volumes to explain my negativity about the refugees but people will make up their own minds. I sincerely hope the admittance of the refugees will not come back to bite us on the bum but I remain alarmed.

Notca I'm guessing that the writing contained above is yours, and that you just made a mistake by adding your comments in the wrong area when you quoted the earlier post...

If that's the case then you're not a racist, you're a realist. The bleeding hearts of the world can say "let them thru the doors as fast as you can" but the people manning the gate have a daunting task ahead of them that the BH's can't fathom. Noone wants to be the guy who stamped the passport of a person who went on to take the lives of innocent Canadian men, women and children. Once the new wave of refugees arrives there's 10 Million square kilometres of Canada to protect from the enemy within (but don't even think of tapping their cellphones or monitoring their emails).

Syria/the middle east is a troublesome area and it's completely naive for Canadians to assume that we can hastily bring in 25,000 refugees from such a place without bringing in a single member of a dangerous faction. They don't grow up fat and happy like us over there, they all grew up in an area where people of all religions openly hate each other and most of them have lost loved ones to "the other side". The other side is anyone from shiite, sunni, christian, jew... you name it.

I'd love to help out all the people who truly respect human life and take no part in the religious hatred. I just don't know how to pick them out of a crowd. I especially don't know how to hastily pick them out of a crowd, and if you could name them by name how can you be sure that the names on the passports belong to the faces crossing our border? Everyone who wants to come over here has an agenda and you can't tell what it is by how close their eyes are together.

Trudeau was just capitalizing on the wave of sentiment, and making good use of the fact that as the leader of the opposition he didn't need to worry about actually doing anything at the time he was making the promises.

His next step will be to blame "the bureaucracy and hateful folks" that were put in place by the Harper Gov't for delaying the flow of refugees.

Soon enough reports will be coming in from Europe about the problems that they are facing from their new immigrant populations and there will be lowered expectations. A new zeitgeist will emerge and the next leader of the opposition will pretend that they have a magic wand to solve the situation while the PM will be stuck dealing with reality.

At least I hope that's the case. If Trudeau is as smart as most voters seem to think then he won't push his agenda fwd at the stated rate. There are many wiser, safer options. I don't know why the idea of a UN safe haven never got any traction. Most of the refugees theoretically want to stay in/go back to Syria.

[Big Guy]

I understand that the USA has a large camp that is almost empty but has all the facilities for thousands of refugees during processing. Maybe Canada miight rent Guantanamo Bay for processing our refugees and then getting them into Canada.

[Argus]

So the above post contains just one recent example of an "anti-Israeli screed".

Yes, I saw. And like other such anti-Israel screeds it completely ignores all context, not to mention the worse violations by both Palestinians and pretty much every nearby state. People like you don't get bothered when Egypt sentences a thousand people to death, or when Iran hangs teenage girls for having sex, or when Sudan tortures people to death or when the Palestinian government executes people out of hand, without trial or when Syria slaughters innocents, or when Turkey restarts a civil war so the ruling president who wants to be king can gain more power or when Saudi Arabia executes dozens of people.

For some reason, all you ever see are what the Jews do.

I'm not asking you to hate Israelis. I'm just informing you that they invented terrorism in the middle east, and they venerate their terrorists, the likud party was born and bred as terrorists

Likud came into being in the seventies as a merger of three or four other parties, one of which was Herat, which was the successor to Irgun, and Irgun did indeed take part in terrorist activities. On the other hand, the great majority of the violence Irgun took part in was retaliatory for violence and murder being committed against Jews by Arabs. That's something guys like you always prefer to ignore or gloss over. And unlike modern Muslim terrorists, they didn't fly planes into buildings full of civilians or blow up markets full of housewives.

But the bottom line is that the Israelis simply aren't good enough as human beings to earn the loyalty and devotion that we have shown them.

Loyalty and devotion? We show neither to Israel. What we do tend to show is an appreciation for an Allie which is the only democratic state in the region, the only state with a free press, the only state with an independent judicial system and the only state with a modicum of personal freedoms.

There have certainly been errors in policy there, especially related to their settlements on the West Bank, which I think are self-defeating and are the result of compromises with their extreme religious parties brought about by their proportional representation system. There have also been individual violations of human rights by the IDF, but then again, any military tasked with policing a violent civilian citizenry which has no restraints on acts of violence committed against the military or Jews in general would inspire retaliatory thinking. That's especially so in a small country which has been surrounded for its entirely existence by an implacable enemy which hates each and every member of that society for their religion, and wants to kill every one of them. You grow up in that kind of society, knowing the enemy is trying every day to get over the walls, or dig under them, or fly around them just so they can kill a few Jews, and you might be less prone to indignation at the way the Israelis sometimes react.

[Rue]

WesCan you took this thread to use as an excuse, a pretext to engage in an attack on Jews using the word "Israeli". The context of your word clearly deals with Jewish refugees not Israelis.You know nothing abut the history of Jews, the history of conflict in the ME. Itt shows clearly in your comments.

You are 100% wrong saying Likud was started as a terrorist party. That was a foolish and idiotic assertion. Both Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were in Irgun which at its peak had 250 members. They did engage in terrorism. When both joined Likud they denounced terrorism as a political vehicle and had to publically denounce terrrorism. Nowhere in Likud's charter do they condone or support terrorism. They do have some extreme members but it is against the law to condone any form of terrorism in Israel whether you are a Jew or Muslim. You have no clue. You are another self professed expert who has no clue.

You show your ignorance when you come on this board to rave against Jews and don't do your homework. No political party in Israel can be legal and get members elected if it condones terrorism. You want to start a thread to piss on Israel go start one. There are no shortage of them that is not the issue in this thread stop derailing it please and stick to the topic.

You are also absolutely ignorant stating Israelis invented terrorism in the ME. Again it has nothing to do with this thread and it reflects your ignorance. Terrorism is ancient. It has been around since humans picked up a stone and stick to kill one another indiscriminately. What an idiotic thing to try suggest Israelis invented it in the ME. Muslims have been terrorizing each other for over 3000 years. No they did not catch some germ from Israelis What a moronic contention. What ignorance as to the history of violence in the ME.

You don't know how to pick people out of a crowd? Of course not. Your words show you haven't a clue what you talk about. I doubt you know the difference between a Jew an Arab or a Christian. Its no wonder you are confused.

This thread is about Trudeau's promise to take in 25,000 Syrians by Jan.1. He can't. He doesn't have the security screening capabilities or physical sites set up to take them in yet.

He pandered as did the NDP leader to get votes. Its what politiciansy do, make empty promises.

John "give me another shot its after 8 am" McCallum is hilarious suggesting security is currently screening Syrians. They are not, they don't exist. There were major cut backs to immigration entry enforcement personnel.

Anyone today can walk into Canada. The computer screens have nothing on them when you cross the border. They are a sham.

That is the issue. The issue is not whether we take in refugees but what is the safest way to screen out terrorists or non refugees.

Its well and good to say take them in. No one wants to see genuine refugees suffer, but the fact is the taking in of refugees is a do good exercise to ease liberal guilt. The vast majority of true refugees never leave their conflict zones and stay trapped.

The ones that get out have money. They have to pay at least $10,000 to $20,000 per head to smugglers-organized criminals funding ISIL and other terror groups who are also sending in sleepers. Go find out what the Trojan horse was.

What we see is a mass migration of not just Syrians, but Africans, Asians, fleeing not just war but lack of water and food.

The vast majority of this migratory movement is triggered by lack of water and food. Climate changes have led to increased desertification and flooding. Part of that is from cutting down the rain forests, part of that is man made activities, part of that is war.

Europe and North America provide a MIRAGE ...an illusion...a flame for the moths called migrants. Smugglers tell the migrants roads paved with gold await-free jobs, houses, cars.

What awaits are jobs no one else wants at minimum wage one... ghettoes in cities....people stacked in highrises.....generations of lower caste system life.

That is the reality. They can join the multiple generation of Canadians who have learned to accept permanent unemployment and live on welfare or they push themselves out of their muck on their own with no government help as so many others did. That is the cruel hard reality-if they don't drown or die from disease. There is no gold here and many will leave when they do not find it.

Canada can feel good about itself taking in 25,000 Syrians but the fact is there is a crisis occurring all around the world as we speak. To pretend Syrians are the only ones in trouble is stupid. To pretend we can move the entire world into Canada to escape the conflicts or climate changes is stupid. The system for in-take has limits-we have to define those limits.

Merkel did not define her limits-she just opened the flood gates triggering a migratory influx storm of such epic size she has destroyed the EEC, caused NATO and the EEC to implode, and has paved the way for the next Hitler.

I hope we can help but do so in a realistic and safe manner for all concerned.

As we speak Syrians are rejecting the homes they are given, making unrealistic demands. As we speak Swedes are burning down buildings being cleared for refugees. Go are Germans. Fences are going up. Merkel is now back tracking talking about sending peole back forcefully. Norway is cutting refugee benefits 20% (they are not a member of the EEC).

In the good old days we sent ships to get cheap labour called slaves. Now we have them come on their own only they expect immediate acceptance and Western level luxuries with no transferable skills to produce income with.

This spells a coming civil war. The irony is the Arab peoples have turned themselves into the very Jews they spit on for fleeing persecution and will face the same destiny. Who says there is no karma or no divine presence.

Surely the irony has not escaped those of you still pissing on Jews and Israel or the Roma in Europe or the Turks, or whoever the scapegoat of the day is.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Rue

[WestCanMan]

WesCan you took this thread to use as an excuse, a pretext to engage in an attack on Jews sing the word "Israeli". The context of your word clearly deals with Jewish refugees not Israelis.

You are also 100% wrong saying Likud was started as a terrorist party. That was a foolish and idiotic assertion. Both Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were in Irgun which at its peak had 250 members. They did engage in terrorism. When both joined Likud they denounced terrorism as a political vehicle. Nowhere in Likud's charter do they condone or support terrorism

You show your ignorance when you come on this board to rave against Jews and don't do your homework. No political party in Israel can be legal and get members elected if it condones or had condoned terrorism.

I respect that you are actually engaging in this topic with some actual facts, but don't throw down the anti-Semitism card on me Rue. The Likud party is run by terrorists and the Israeli people have national holidays to honour their actions - a rose by any other name.

You are also absolutely ignorant stating Israelis invented terrorism in the ME. Again it has nothing to do with this thread and it reflects your ignorance. Terrorism is ancient. It has been around since humans picked up a stone and stick to kill one another discriminately an dnot out of purpose. What an idiotic thing to try suggest Israelis invented it in the ME. Muslims have been terrorizing each other for over 3000 years. No they did not catch some germ from Israelis What a moronic contention.

In the context of this debate, Israelis were the first terrorists. We all know that nothing to do with war or war crimes has been invented in the last 70 years, but right now popular opinion is that Muslims are the only terrorsists to ever walk the earth. I'm jere to attack that theory, not Jews in particular. Do you think that Israelis are beyond reproach?

Im out of time, back l8r

Edited November 8, 2015 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

I was going to come on here and respond to the rest of your post but now that I read it I find that it's mostly just personal attacks against me, even to the point of you being a fear monger. You shouldn't cause fear without good reason and all I did was enlighten people to things that you'd rather they didn't know.

Both Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were in Irgun which at its peak had 250 members. They did engage in terrorism. When both joined Likud they denounced terrorism as a political vehicle and had to publically denounce terrrorism.

Thank you for openly admitting that I was correct in my assertion that the Israelis have a national holiday to honour a terrorist. That's obviously a huge black mark on their international reputation to anyone who is in the know. I also think it's important to understand that the word "terrorist" isn't synonymous with "muslim". Too many people are engaged in the debate about the middle east without that knowledge.

FWIW I don't hate jews at all, I hate the trouble in the middle east and that we are being conditioned to take a firm stance on what's going on over there at the same time as we are being mislead as to exactly what's going on over there. I have seen jewish people speak against the actions of the Israeli state and I have the utmost respect for people who can see their own faults. I hope that the jews get their share of the holy land and that they are able to live in peace with their neighbours there forever. I don't think that they are on the right track and I think that we are guilty of supporting them with too blind an eye to all the things they do. No need for you to snitch me out to csis or the cia for that last sentence, I already sent an email saying that exact thing to my elected mp so I'm already red-flagged for life.

[Charles Anthony]

Guys,

Please stay on topic.

[Keepitsimple]

Notice how the media is full of apologists saying it doesn't matter if Trudeau doesn't meet the commitment - only that he's sincere in trying - it's OK if it takes a year? This after Trudeau and doubled down saying he would meet his commitment. It's an important point - because unless he can come reasonably close to meeting his commitment - say by March.......then it's just another example of Trudeau blindly shooting off his mouth and simply not understanding one iota about what he's committing to. Take that approach on Climate Change or Deficits and you'll readily see the danger in having a shallow but impetuous leader. That said, he could clearly make the nay-sayers look foolish by meeting his commitment - but heck, those apologists are breathlessly trying to give him a soft landing, aren't they?