drummindiver Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 40 minutes ago, Smallc said: Point being missed, apparently - education money from Ottawa is money the provinces aren't entitled to, but are lucky to have. Point being they are entitled and the Libs clawed it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, drummindiver said: Point being they are entitled and the Libs clawed it back. No, they aren't actually. The federal government can lower transfers at their discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 13 hours ago, Smallc said: No, they aren't actually. The federal government can lower transfers at their discretion. Which in no way means the provinces aren't entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 Where do you get that from? Education and infrastructure are completely provincial responsibilities in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 12/31/2016 at 0:05 AM, ?Impact said: Mommy, mommy, it's not my fault. My big sister made me do it. Did I not say that the Cons were responsible for all decisions made during their reign of power ....I thought so, but if your going to deny that the Libs and NDP were pursuing massive spending to stim the economy your wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Army Guy said: Did I not say that the Cons were responsible for all decisions made during their reign of power ....I thought so, but if your going to deny that the Libs and NDP were pursuing massive spending to stim the economy your wrong.... The CPC had a minority. The majority of parliament demanded more spending. The "Harper" deficit is a Liberal party of Canada deficit. How do we know? The moment Harper had a majority, he did exactly what he said he would do and erased it in record time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 21 minutes ago, Bryan said: The moment Harper had a majority, he did exactly what he said he would do and erased it in record time. And by record time, you mean slower than the actual record time, I'm assuming, since Chretien/Martin eliminated the deficit within 2 years of saying that they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 31 minutes ago, Smallc said: And by record time, you mean slower than the actual record time, I'm assuming, since Chretien/Martin eliminated the deficit within 2 years of saying that they would. Like just about everything that Chretien and Martin did, said that they would do it multiple times over the course of many years before actually doing it. It took them five years to actually do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 Just now, Bryan said: Like just about everything that Chretien and Martin did, said that they would do it multiple times over the course of many years before actually doing it. It took them five years to actually do it. The Liberals first budget was 1994-1995 fiscal year. The budget was in surplus by the 1996-1997 fiscal year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Bryan said: The moment Harper had a majority, he did exactly what he said he would do and erased it in record time. The deficit was only because of the stimulus program, you keep telling us that. The stimulus program was over by the time Harper got his coveted majority, but he kept running multi-billion dollar deficits. Face it, the history of conservative government in finance is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 37 minutes ago, ?Impact said: The deficit was only because of the stimulus program, you keep telling us that. The stimulus program was over by the time Harper got his coveted majority, but he kept running multi-billion dollar deficits. Face it, the history of conservative government in finance is terrible. Mulroney had to pay interest on trudeaus sr's massive deficit and debt when interest rates were double digits. The cost of servicing the debt was putting Mulroney in the red. Other than that the only Tory govts had good budgets as neither liberals or Tories spent much before Trudeau sr. harper had to play politics while bringing the deficit down to surplus which he did. Harper had a gun to his head to make the deficit and a sluggish Ontario economy thanks to provincial liberals which took longer for the deficit to pay off. The economy hasn't been on all cylinders since 2007. Part of deficits is lack of revenues due to a downturn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, blueblood said: Mulroney had to pay interest on trudeaus sr's massive deficit and debt when interest rates were double digits. The cost of servicing the debt was putting Mulroney in the red. Other than that the only Tory govts had good budgets as neither liberals or Tories spent much before Trudeau sr. harper had to play politics while bringing the deficit down to surplus which he did. Harper had a gun to his head to make the deficit and a sluggish Ontario economy thanks to provincial liberals which took longer for the deficit to pay off. The economy hasn't been on all cylinders since 2007. Part of deficits is lack of revenues due to a downturn. Harper jacked the debt up 150 billion. That record speaks for itself, but then he is/was a conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 14 minutes ago, blueblood said: Mulroney had to pay interest on trudeaus sr's massive deficit and debt when interest rates were double digits. The years that Trudeau Sr. had the largest deficits, the interest rates were over 20%. Mulroney had 10-15% interest rates for about 3-4 years, and then under 10%. It never ceases to amuse me how conservatives ignore the facts, and spin a yarn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Omni said: Harper jacked the debt up 150 billion. That record speaks for itself, but then he is/was a conservative. With a coalition gun to the head and he slayed the deficit regardless. What did the opposition want to spend? What's trudeaus debt going to be? He's a 1/5 of the way there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, ?Impact said: The years that Trudeau Sr. had the largest deficits, the interest rates were over 20%. Mulroney had 10-15% interest rates for about 3-4 years, and then under 10%. It never ceases to amuse me how conservatives ignore the facts, and spin a yarn. 10-15% after a decade of trudeaus madness. You do know that it does pile up from high interest rates. You can thank Trudeau sr for starting the madness that we still can't pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, blueblood said: With a coalition gun to the head and he slayed the deficit regardless. You have this romantic view of conservative policies that isn't true (liberals do the same thing). Things just aren't like that. Harper certainly wasn't perfect, and his fiscal record is definitely not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, blueblood said: 10-15% after a decade of trudeaus madness. Trudeau Sr actually increased the debt to GDP ratio by a very marginal amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Smallc said: Trudeau Sr actually increased the debt to GDP ratio by a very marginal amount. Yet we are still paying for it and the bond vultures didn't agree with you. It took a gst, nafta deal, and Paul Martin raiding ei, changing provincial transfers and slashing spending to get them off our back. the bond vultures don't care about debt to GDP. If they view the country is spending recklessly they play hard ball with the rates. Trudeaus debt has been a huge ball and chain on growth just because of the money needed to service it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Smallc said: You have this romantic view of conservative policies that isn't true (liberals do the same thing). Things just aren't like that. Harper certainly wasn't perfect, and his fiscal record is definitely not perfect. Harpers record wasn't perfect. He should have paid attention to how the Irish got out of their worse predicament. Harper shouldn't have taken on that much debt and things would have been just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 27 minutes ago, blueblood said: Yet we are still paying for it and the bond vultures didn't agree with you. They didn't blame Trudeau specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 22 minutes ago, blueblood said: Harpers record wasn't perfect. He should have paid attention to how the Irish got out of their worse predicament. Harper shouldn't have taken on that much debt and things would have been just fine. You can't really just say what works for one country will work for another. We came through everything pretty good overall. They did as well as anyone else would have in the same circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 29 minutes ago, blueblood said: the bond vultures don't care about debt to GDP. And this is totally wrong - the projected debt to GDP path is exactly what they were concerned about in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, Smallc said: And this is totally wrong - the projected debt to GDP path is exactly what they were concerned about in the 90s. Which was exacerbated by Trudeau sr's massive debt. Which is why we worry about Justin's spending spree... the bond vultures have more faith in the USA to pay their bills than most anyone which is why they get away with their debt to gdp which until now you said that debt to GDP for Justin's and Pierres spending wasn't a big deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/canada-deficit/index.html Trudeau Snr took us from a 667 million deficit to 10 billion in his first go round, and from 14.5 to 34.2 Billion the second time, his record is by far the worse, it's not even close. Interest rates were at their peak and just coming off peak when Mulroney took over, of course that government had to deal with the interest payments on the massive accumulated debt of Trudeau Snr. They did so while increasing the deficit significantly less than Trudeau did, Chretien did the same until they made DEEP cuts to get back to balance. It's clear from the graph where the trouble began, it's also clear that the spike in the Harper conservative spending is directly related to the most recent recession, most of which as the result of short term stimulus spending, it's also clear they got back to balance relatively quickly in spite of the deep drop in revenues. If this graph included this past year Trudeau Jnr would easily break his fathers record for the largest increase in deficit spending. Now of course someone will come along to lie, or obfuscate about this chart, it's what they do, just like this current government demanded stimulus spending, then complained about the deficit, then promised to produce a deficit, and then went on to about triple it. We are still paying for his fathers mistakes, and we will pay for his for the rest of my life, that is certain, but before that happens another liberal will come along to complain about the, next, last conservative government, saddled with another Trudeau's debt, the liberal will claim we must have cuts, because the conservative rang up the debt, of course ignoring the Trudeaus in the equation, and the cycle will start again. Who knows, maybe after another conservative government takes over, yet again gets decried as evil monsters for not cutting nearly as deep or borrowing nearly as much as the liberals, and loses, perhaps yet another Trudeau, Jnr's jnr, will be awaiting his coronation by the baying mob, it will for ever be so as long as there are liberal's whose appetite for graft is only surpassed by the numbers of those desperate to have honey poured into their ears. It's good for all of them. It doesn't matter what the conservatives do, they are always cast as the greater villain by an incompetent rabble. They just aren't nice liberals. Edited January 2, 2017 by poochy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, blueblood said: 10-15% after a decade of trudeaus madness. You do know that it does pile up from high interest rates. You can thank Trudeau sr for starting the madness that we still can't pay off. Maybe take another look. http://ipolitics.ca/2015/04/19/no-matter-how-you-add-it-up-harpers-fiscal-record-is-a-catastrophe/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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