Netanyahu: It was Mufti of Jerusalem who convinced Hitler to kill Jews

msj · October 22, 2015

I went back and edited my posts in an effort to stick directly to the issues. For those who accused Sharkman of being personal, practice what you preach when you call Netanyahu asinine or a liar. To engage in debate, please be prepared to show what he said was false. Those of you who came on here to advance that train of personal insult to Netanyahu have not.

I have not attacked any person in this thread - I called Netanyahu asinine based solely on his statement which is asinine for reasons already provided.

I have played the ball and not the person.

Edited October 22, 2015 by msj

marcus · October 22, 2015

Why are there people trying to debate and sell Netanyahu's lie?

Besides Prof. Dina Porat, chief historian of the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial's comment, which was: “completely erroneous, on all counts.”, below are more comments, exposing another Netanyahu lie:

Roy Isacowitz - In Mufti Speech, Netanyahu Showed His Obsessive Hatred of the Palestinians

Israel's PM is gripped by an obsession in which even Hitler, the archetype of evil and Jew-hatred, has to play second fiddle to Mahmoud Abbas and his Palestinian predecessors.

Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, met with Hitler for the first and – as far as is known – only time on November 28, 1941. By then, hundreds of thousands of Jews had already been shot to death in the western Soviet Union and the Final Solution, if Browning is correct, was already an established fact in the Nazi bureaucracy.

In other words, Husseini certainly came to know about the Holocaust from his contacts with senior Nazis and was by all accounts an enthusiastic supporter, but he wasn’t – and couldn’t have been – a factor in its genesis. The Holocaust was probably, as Browning puts it, a “cumulative radicalization” of the German state in dealing with its “Jewish problem” – a process that began long before Husseini arrived in Berlin in October 1941.

Ofer Aderet - What really happened when the Mufti met Hitler

He explains how the mass murder of Jews in Europe started months before Hitler met the Mufti, and what they really said to each other. He adds more details about the meeting from the official documentation.

Sara Yael Hirschhorn - Netanyahu, Abbas and the Death of Historical Truth

She speaks sadly about the death of historical truth and how Israelis and Palestinians are now fighting a war of post-modern political fictions.

Edited October 22, 2015 by marcus

sharkman · October 22, 2015

I have not attacked any person in this thread - I called Netanyahu asinine based solely on his statement which is asinine for reasons already provided.

I have played the ball and not the person.

Is that so? How is it not personal when you respond to my question to someone else with this: "He can answer and reveal whatever the hell he wants to."(on page one) Does that sound like playing the ball? And then you want discourse from me?

Rue and Dog have answered well, and perhaps have more patience than me.

msj · October 22, 2015

Is that so? How is it not personal when you respond to my question to someone else with this: "He can answer and reveal whatever the hell he wants to."(on page one) Does that sound like playing the ball? And then you want discourse from me?

That's is a simple statement of fact. He can respond however and whatever the hell he wants.

He can to you, he can to me.....

How is that not factual?

DogOnPorch · October 22, 2015

Is that so? How is it not personal when you respond to my question to someone else with this: "He can answer and reveal whatever the hell he wants to."(on page one) Does that sound like playing the ball? And then you want discourse from me?

Rue and Dog have answered well, and perhaps have more patience than me.

A family member of mine worked for the Mufti during WW2. This is my connection to the conflict. I'm not sure what skin the other posters might have in this Arab-Israeli conflict. Perhaps something similar...or not. I don't care. All I know is that The Grand Mufti was a monster. I find it incredible that anyone goes to bat for him...or his cause...but, hey. It's a free country...for the moment.

Arafat was his nephew...Abbas denies the Holocaust's extent. What's the attraction? I'm not sure....but plenty of folks are attracted.

BubberMiley · October 22, 2015

Rue and Dog have answered well, and perhaps have more patience than me.

And Marcus has showed how they are wrong. The story that Mufti said "burn them" came from Dieter Wisliceny, who was an assistant to Eichmann. At Nuremberg, he was just trying to deflect blame, saying it wasn't Hitler, it wasn't him, it was Mufti. But yes, the Final Solution was already happening when they met. I'm not defending Mufti at all. I'm sure he was a terrible person. But that should not exonerate Hitler and the Nazis of anything.

DogOnPorch · October 22, 2015

At the end of 1942, Eichmann ordered 10,000 Jewish children sent from Poland to Theresienstadt (the "nice" concentration camp). The Red Cross offered to trade German civilians for them.

The Grand Mufti al-Husseini got wind of the plan and protested to Himmler, warning him that the little Jews would soon become big Jews.

That's the founder of the Palestinian Cause.

"Arise, o sons of Arabia. Fight for your sacred rights. Slaughter Jews wherever you find them. Their spilled blood pleases Allah, our history and religion. That will save our honor."

---Haj Amin al-Husseini (radio broadcast during WW2)

DogOnPorch · October 22, 2015

The Wannsee Conference (which was the decision to implement the Final Solution) took place *after* Hitler and the Mufti met. Not during or before.

Hitler meets the Mufti: November 1941.

The Wannsee Conference: January, 1942.

Edited October 22, 2015 by DogOnPorch

BC_chick · October 22, 2015

BC what do you mean..."Oh and apparently Rue too"-what you want to get personal with me BC too.... or do you want to address the issues? Can you do that? Go on deny what the Mullah did and show the words where Netanyahu said the holocaust was caused solely by the Mufti. Go on.

Marcus quoted them in the previous page.

eyeball · October 22, 2015

Did someone build a time machine and mess with the Prime Temporal Directive?

Do time machines run on propane?

sharkman · October 23, 2015

No, apparently they run on BS.

BC_chick · October 23, 2015

You seem confused, this is not a thread about Big Guy.

Netanyahu said Hitler only wanted to expel Jews but ended up killing them after the Mufti urged him killing is better since expulsion will lead to them ending up in Palestine.

Do you have anything to say about the topic?

Bonam · October 23, 2015

You seem confused, this is not a thread about Big Guy.

Netanyahu said Hitler only wanted to expel Jews but ended up killing them after the Mufti urged him killing is better since expulsion will lead to them ending up in Palestine.

Do you have anything to say about the topic?

I thought it was fairly well known, historically, that when the Nazis started examining what their "final solution" would be, that they considered various expulsion/relocation options, before finally deciding on complete extermination. Hitler was clearly just as happy to kill the Jews, and the decision to exterminate the Jews was made independent of anything the Mufti may have wanted, but it is not untrue to say that but for the actions of al-Husseini, it is possible that more Jews may have ended up escaping to or being shipped to Palestine than otherwise did. For example, al-Husseini successfully blocked a considerable number of Jewish refugees from being able to flee to Palestine and successfully lobbied various individuals within the Nazi hierarchy and within Nazi occupied territories to ship Jews to concentration camps rather than to allow the possibility of them ending up in Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini#The_Holocaust

Edited October 23, 2015 by Bonam

eyeball · October 23, 2015

Dig deep enough and you'll find it's all Obama's fault.

Bonam · October 23, 2015

Dig deep enough and you'll find it's all Obama's fault.

Nope. Go learn some history rather than simply supporting whatever opinion you think your "side" expects you to support.

msj · October 23, 2015

With the timeline and all, no consideration given with respect to the lack of lebensraum due to Stalin not rolling over?

All that empty space would have been a wonderful place (if you think like a Nazi) to deposit those Jews and other undesirables and to leave them to starve and die from disease.

Rue · October 23, 2015

I am again going to ask thread participants to stop being personal and drag me into personal attacks.

I am going to try respond to to the response that the Mufti did not say what he did, nor did he play a role in the extermination of Jews in the next post.

My response in this post to BC is this-you misquoted againt what Netanyahu said by taking at the words "at that time" which are crucial to contextualize what he said. By removing those actual words you changed what he said to something else. Please make a point to quote what he actually said. Removing words from what he said to change their meaning is pointless. Its been exposed.

Rue · October 23, 2015

This is now in direct response to B Miley's attempt to suggest or infer the Mufti had no role claiming it was said by someone else.

In fact SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dieter Wisliceny, who Miley has misrepresented, was a close collaborator of Adolf Eichmann and testified at thee Nuremberg trials. He stated that and I quote directly from his testimony which anyone can find on the Nuremberg transcripts and is public domain that:

“the grand mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews the importance of which must not be disregarded. He had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he had been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European jury. He considers this as a comfortable solution of the Palestine problem. In his messages broadcast from Berlin, he surpassed us in anti-Jewish attacks. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and has constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard say that, accompanied by Eichmann, he has visited incognito the gas chamber it Auschwitz.”

The above comes from an affidavit in fact made by Adolph Eichmann in Eichman's office in Budapest on June 4, 1944.

Wisliceny confirmed what this affidavit said days later also in Budapest.

So in fact Miley has not done his research. He has in fact not understood the original source was Eichman not Wislicency.

More importantly if we use Miley's reasoning, since it doesn't come from the Mufti himself we just ignore it.

As I have said earlier, people who revise the holocaust and the role of the Mufti depend on your ignorance of history-they also try pass themselvves off as experts on the holocaust based on trying to bluff their way though debates cherry picking words they remove out of their full context from internet articles.

I am hear to expose that. Next post I will address Maarcus' comments.

eyeball · October 23, 2015

Nope. Go learn some history rather than simply supporting whatever opinion you think your "side" expects you to support.

OK, how about MacKenzie King then? He was a Liberal so...that's sorta like being Obama's fault isn't it?

Rue · October 23, 2015

Eye your comment shows you do not understand this thread. Netanyahu never stated the Mufti was the sole cause of the holocaust. Next, yes it is germaine to point out what McKenzie King did and his culpability in the holocaust. For you to not understand that again shows your ignorance of not only Canadian history but World War Two history and that is the precise problem. People like you need to stop coming on threads about the holocaust when you are not willing to do basic research before you jump on what you think is an anti Israel anti Zionist pissing contest.

McKenzie King referred to Jews as vermin. He sent a ship of Jewish refugees escaping from Hitler back to their deaths. Its the principal reason today people like you demand Canada take in Syrian refugees.

McKenzie King was a rabid anti semite who openly called Jews vermin. He lived in a country that had signs on the beaches and waterfronts saying no Jews allowed. Just once, make an effort to find out how spread anti-Semitism was in Canada before and during WW2 and even after it and how Nazis were not the only Jew haters. McKenzie King left a stain on Canada's reputation. Rene Levesque reported from concentration camps as to the deaths that shamed McKenzie King.

There are a lot of events in Canada's history you clearly are oblivious too and that is why you can be manipulated so easily to call Netanyahu a liar. He did not lie. He said statements that were misconstrued which he has to take responsibility for and did when he clarified them. Go find out about McKenzie King and what the Mufti did. Ignorance of history is what fuels these debates.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Rue

marcus · October 23, 2015

Yeah guys.

Bibi didn't say the Palestinian Mufti (by the way, Palestinians never existed and are an invented people *wink*wink*), was the "sole" cause of the holocaust. All he said was:

Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, “If you expel them, they’ll all come here.” “So what should I do with them?” he asked. He said, “Burn them.”

C'mon guys!

Not sure what all the uproar is about.

BC_chick · October 23, 2015

I thought it was fairly well known, historically, that when the Nazis started examining what their "final solution" would be, that they considered various expulsion/relocation options, before finally deciding on complete extermination. Hitler was clearly just as happy to kill the Jews, and the decision to exterminate the Jews was made independent of anything the Mufti may have wanted, but it is not untrue to say that but for the actions of al-Husseini, it is possible that more Jews may have ended up escaping to or being shipped to Palestine than otherwise did. For example, al-Husseini successfully blocked a considerable number of Jewish refugees from being able to flee to Palestine and successfully lobbied various individuals within the Nazi hierarchy and within Nazi occupied territories to ship Jews to concentration camps rather than to allow the possibility of them ending up in Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini#The_Holocaust

Hitler stated in the early 1920's that he wanted to annihilate the Jews and would do so when in power. He described in graphic detail that he would kill them hang them upside down to die.

Netanyahu's attempt to bring Mufti into it as though he had any effect on Hitler's psychotic bloodthirst for Jews is delusional.

Edited October 23, 2015 by BC_chick

cybercoma · October 23, 2015

At the end of 1942, Eichmann ordered 10,000 Jewish children sent from Poland to Theresienstadt (the "nice" concentration camp). The Red Cross offered to trade German civilians for them.

The Grand Mufti al-Husseini got wind of the plan and protested to Himmler, warning him that the little Jews would soon become big Jews.

That's the founder of the Palestinian Cause.

"Arise, o sons of Arabia. Fight for your sacred rights. Slaughter Jews wherever you find them. Their spilled blood pleases Allah, our history and religion. That will save our honor."

---Haj Amin al-Husseini (radio broadcast during WW2)

If anything, it sounds to me like the Grand Mufti took lessons from Hitler, not the other way around.

cybercoma · October 23, 2015

al-Husseini successfully blocked a considerable number of Jewish refugees from being able to flee

So did Canadian bureaucrats, but we don't say that Canada convinced Hitler to butcher Jews.

cybercoma · October 23, 2015

OK, how about MacKenzie King then? He was a Liberal so...that's sorta like being Obama's fault isn't it?

Mackenzie King did say that Hitler was the "Joan of Arc of his people," granted that was before anyone really knew what his plans were.

Edit to add sources. Kings words come straight from his dairy which is digitally archived on government servers:

King was impressed by Hitler. He wrote, "My sizing up of the man as I sat and talked with him was that he is really one who truly loves his fellow-men, and his country, and would make any sacrifice for their good." (Diary, June 29, 1937) Hitler appeared to be "a man of deep sincerity and a genuine patriot." (Diary, June 29, 1937) King saw similarities between himself and Hitler, writing, "As I talked with him, I could not but think of Joan of Arc. He is distinctly a mystic .... He is a teetotaller and also a vegetarian; is unmarried, abstemist in all his habits and ways." (Diary, June 29, 1937)

From https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/king/023011-1070.05-e.html

Edited October 23, 2015 by cybercoma