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Posted

To the rest of your post, I'm not prepared to debate it, fore or against, but I will say this, the environmental movement isn't going to achieve their own agenda divorced from mainstream politics.

Agenda? You mean the nefarious agenda to save people from themselves? To avoid calamitous climate changes that will likely result in mass dislocation and starvation, likely resulting in war?? That agenda? Perhaps even triggering collapse of civilization as we know it? Is that the agenda you mean? Pretty devious, that environmental movement. That agenda won't be achieved within mainstream politics either. Not in North America anyway.

As to whether things change, that's a tossup. There are a few ways out of this. A major weather shift could wake people up and change the conversation (although a major drought in California seems to have no effect). Or a significant breakthrough in battery/storage technology could be the tipping point for rewewables. Solar is already cheaper in much of the world than fossil fuels and is still dropping.

Regardless, though, this doesn't bode well for the future of our species. It's pretty convincing that when our long term interests collide with short term interests, the short term wins out.

Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists.

- Noam Chomsky

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

- Upton Sinclair

Posted

Agenda? You mean the nefarious agenda to save people from themselves? To avoid calamitous climate changes that will likely result in mass dislocation and starvation, likely resulting in war??

I think we had "wars" long before the climate change religion was born. Mankind managed to not only survive...but thrive.

... A major weather shift could wake people up and change the conversation (although a major drought in California seems to have no effect).

Well there ya go....don't count on California to save the day, even though it has been a leader in auto emissions controls for altogether different reasons for many decades, not for "climate change".

Economics trumps Virtue. 

 

Posted

I think we had "wars" long before the climate change religion was born. Mankind managed to not only survive...but thrive.

Well there ya go....don't count on California to save the day, even though it has been a leader in auto emissions controls for altogether different reasons for many decades, not for "climate change".

Climate change is a religion now? I guess it must be that "in god we trust" stuff eh?
Posted

Climate change is a religion now? I guess it must be that "in god we trust" stuff eh?

It is for the religious fundamentalists that are running Canada (and were running USA)

Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists.

- Noam Chomsky

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

- Upton Sinclair

Posted

Yeah according to CAMA, the environment is God's domain and he will fix it regardless of what we do to damage it. That's reassuring isn't it?

It gets worse than that. If you happen to believe that rapture depends on a war starting in the Middle East, how does that affect your policy? Maybe you take a hard line and encourage Israel to not compromise?

Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists.

- Noam Chomsky

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

- Upton Sinclair

Posted

It gets worse than that. If you happen to believe that rapture depends on a war starting in the Middle East, how does that affect your policy? Maybe you take a hard line and encourage Israel to not compromise?

And they seem only too willing to follow that hard line policy. At any rate, I want to see the separation of church and state more strictly adhered to. Nothing against any particular religion or a persons right to practice it. Just keep it out of tainting legislature as much as possible.
Posted

Agenda? You mean the nefarious agenda to save people from themselves? To avoid calamitous climate changes that will likely result in mass dislocation and starvation, likely resulting in war?? That agenda? Perhaps even triggering collapse of civilization as we know it? Is that the agenda you mean? Pretty devious, that environmental movement. That agenda won't be achieved within mainstream politics either. Not in North America anyway.

What I find both funny and ironic, since you speak to religious fundamentalism, is that you could replace calamitous climate change, with saving ones soul from damnation……..Your approach to your stated goal of preserving the environment, though perhaps noble in its intent, is what is holding your cause back. Your claims of the end is nigh is no different sounding to the mainstream than a Holy Roller attempting to save humanities collective souls.

Any positive movement on the environment will come about from the mainstream political process and market capitalism, despite your best preaching otherwise. The only thing your approach guarantees is further alienation of your movement and years of wasted effort.

As to whether things change, that's a tossup. There are a few ways out of this. A major weather shift could wake people up and change the conversation (although a major drought in California seems to have no effect). Or a significant breakthrough in battery/storage technology could be the tipping point for rewewables. Solar is already cheaper in much of the world than fossil fuels and is still dropping.

So an environmental Rapture or the second coming of batteries is the only way out?

Regardless, though, this doesn't bode well for the future of our species. It's pretty convincing that when our long term interests collide with short term interests, the short term wins out.

Oh I don’t think so, the environmental movements key failure is not understanding a tenant of consumerism…….you’re never going to get the crowd to follow you with ranting and raving, the true saviours of the environment (The evil Corporate World), will just position themselves affront of whatever direction the crowd is going in, and make money hand over fist.

Posted

What I find both funny and ironic, since you speak to religious fundamentalism, is that you could replace calamitous climate change, with saving ones soul from damnation……..Your approach to your stated goal of preserving the environment, though perhaps noble in its intent, is what is holding your cause back. Your claims of the end is nigh is no different sounding to the mainstream than a Holy Roller attempting to save humanities collective souls.

Wow. You're analysis is soooo brilliant. How do you do that?

Taking seriously scientists who've spent their lives work studying climate and who warn against carelessly changing the chemistry of an unbelievably complex system upon which all life depends is almost exactly like predicting end times based on a literal interpretation of a 2000 year old book crafted mostly in riddles, translated from an obsolete dialect of a foreign language....

No, wait. Your post is completely ridiculous.

Sorry, my mistake.

Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists.

- Noam Chomsky

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

- Upton Sinclair

Posted

Suzuki is worth listening to if only to get a handle on what the environmental movement beliefs. He said that 80% of the oil sands would have to be left in the ground in order to meet CO2 reduction requirements. How many NDP members do you think believe the same thing?

And I agree with his assessment of Trudeau - and Trudeau's assessment of Suzuki.

Most do. And in the citizen this week and I hope top find it, was a great story on the NDP and how it will destroy free enterprise in canada. And it talks of the love some NDP ers like ,Linda McQuaig who are so in love with chavez and his policies. It is a scary story starting with notley in alberta. We are close to being taken down a 3rd world highway with these people. Tom maybe a good guy, but his people below him are the ones to be worried about.

who are so in love with chavez and his policies.

Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.

Posted

Long after Stephen Harper fades into political obscurity that he so richly deserves, David Suzuki will be remembered for his relentless defense of our planet's environment.

When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one.

...... Lord Lytton

Posted

There's nothing to turn around. Suzuki would be the first to acknowledge that while the Liberal plan falls well short of what is needed it still beats the Harper plan of making excuses and doing nothing while emissions keep rising.

Yes, because the Liberal plan costs $20 billion and will decrease world emissions by 0.00000000000000000000000001%

The Tory plan, meanwhile, costs nothing and will diminish world emissions by slightly less.

"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley

Posted (edited)

Yes, because the Liberal plan costs $20 billion and will decrease world emissions by 0.00000000000000000000000001%

The Tory plan, meanwhile, costs nothing and will diminish world emissions by slightly less.

Ain't that the bold truth.

Edited by Keepitsimple

Back to Basics

Posted

Yes, because the Liberal plan costs $20 billion and will decrease world emissions by 0.00000000000000000000000001%

The Tory plan, meanwhile, costs nothing and will diminish world emissions by slightly less.

You're right. It's hopeless. Give up.

Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists.

- Noam Chomsky

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

- Upton Sinclair

Posted

Long after Stephen Harper fades into political obscurity that he so richly deserves, David Suzuki will be remembered for his relentless defense of our planet's environment.

Remembered for his relentless defence of his bank account. It is to bad people like yourself dont see thru these charlatans. If he really cared, he would not have a bunch of homes. And on coast lines at that. He and gore has really pulled the wool over peoples eyes. Watch his australian interview and get back to me.

Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.

Posted

You're right. It's hopeless. Give up.

Anything we do is hopeless ,while the real polluters get out of jail free cards. I wish people would wake up to what is really going on.

Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.

Posted

What's upsetting to some is the kidnapping of the term "Environment". Clean air, clean water, expanded parkland and all the associated rules and regulations that have reduced smog in Toronto (for example) and made Lake Ontario swimmable again - all these good things are ignored as the Global Warming alarmists hold the term "Environment" hostage.

Back to Basics

Posted

What's upsetting to some is the kidnapping of the term "Environment". Clean air, clean water, expanded parkland and all the associated rules and regulations that have reduced smog in Toronto (for example) and made Lake Ontario swimmable again - all these good things are ignored as the Global Warming alarmists hold the term "Environment" hostage.

It is not just the term. "clean diesel" pollutes the air much more that gasoline and it only exists because European regulators pushed for it because of their obsession with CO2. Now close to 50% of the cars there are diesel. So if your next visit Europe has you choking on 'clean diesel' fumes you can blame the CO2 obsession.
Posted

Remembered for his relentless defence of his bank account. It is to bad people like yourself dont see thru these charlatans. If he really cared, he would not have a bunch of homes. And on coast lines at that. He and gore has really pulled the wool over peoples eyes. Watch his australian interview and get back to me.

So I guess you're OK with the ceo's of various big oil company's paying themselves millions in salary and bonuses while their activity's products destroys our air ad climate, but it's not OK for someone like Suzuki to make money pointing out those facts. Perhaps look up the word hypocrite in your funk and wagnells.

Posted

Anything we do is hopeless ,while the real polluters get out of jail free cards. I wish people would wake up to what is really going on.

Another 'dog ate my homework' excuse.

On a per capita basis (the only fair way of looking at it), Canada is in the top 3 worst in the world. We don't need to wait for China to cut its emissions.

Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists.

- Noam Chomsky

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

- Upton Sinclair

Posted

It is not just the term. "clean diesel" pollutes the air much more that gasoline and it only exists because European regulators pushed for it because of their obsession with CO2. Now close to 50% of the cars there are diesel. So if your next visit Europe has you choking on 'clean diesel' fumes you can blame the CO2 obsession.

That NOx is bad doesn't mean CO2 isn't bad as well.

And there are well known ways to reduce NOx emissions via SCR, in particular urea, but Volkswagen and other European diesel manufacturers decided they'd rather cheat and keep costs low.

Posted

What's upsetting to some is the kidnapping of the term "Environment". Clean air, clean water, expanded parkland and all the associated rules and regulations that have reduced smog in Toronto (for example) and made Lake Ontario swimmable again - all these good things are ignored as the Global Warming alarmists hold the term "Environment" hostage.

Do you even understand what AGW is?

Posted

I don't want to waste my time with the environment until our survival depends on it.

Business as usual until that day.

That would make a great bumper-sticker.

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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