Moonlight Graham Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I was especially interested in the idea that it is Saudi Arabia trying to force American shale and tight oil companies out of business. This has been the main theory since the OPEC meeting late last year where shortly thereafter oil prices started to drop. They're also trying to but the Canadian oil sands out of business, which has only recently been producing high amounts because oil prices were previously too low to make the higher costs of oil sands extraction profitable. Why is the rest of the world allowing the Saudi's to create so many problems? They're our ally, best not to make enemies with one of the biggest oil producer in the world in the messiest geopoitical region in the world. I'd imagine there would be whispers of war if it happened to be Iran, Iraq, or Syria doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Don't believe anything Fareed Zakaria says unless it is confirmed by outside sources! The only value of his writing is as a window into the thinking inside the power centers of Washington, and what messages they want to disseminate to the public. Why do you say this? Can you name a more intelligent journalist in the MSM? He has a PhD in Government from Harvard, and is an expert in international relations. He's also pretty pragmatic and moderate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 They're our ally With 'allies' like this, who needs enemies? Apparently 'allies' fund the spread of wahabbism, which leads to terrorism. Also, 'allies' commit genocide against apostates and LGBT people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 They're our ally, best not to make enemies with one of the biggest oil producer in the world in the messiest geopoitical region in the world. Why not? The world has a glut of oil anyway. Frankly, oil this low probably hurts the US (and most definitely the Canadian) economy more than it helps it, there are hundreds of billions of dollars worth of lost profits among US and Canadian energy companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Why not? The world has a glut of oil anyway. Frankly, oil this low probably hurts the US (and most definitely the Canadian) economy more than it helps it, there are hundreds of billions of dollars worth of lost profits among US and Canadian energy companies. Sure. Because the current glut will last forever. Because markets work perfectly and always ensure the right supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Sure. Because the current glut will last forever. Because markets work perfectly and always ensure the right supply. No, the glut won't last forever. When it ends and oil prices go back up, that will just restimulate growth in other forms of energy (natural gas, renewables, etc) which is currently stalling due to abundance of cheap oil. The point is that unlike 10-20 years ago when the uninterrupted flow of middle-eastern oil was of paramount strategic importance, that is no longer the case today. Prices might go up and down, but Western nations now have enough options to keep the lights on with or without middle eastern oil. Edited August 24, 2015 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Why do you say this? Can you name a more intelligent journalist in the MSM? He has a PhD in Government from Harvard, and is an expert in international relations. He's also pretty pragmatic and moderate. I say I don't trust him because he is so well connected with people in power. In 2003, he denied/then later had to admit that he got to sit in on a planning session with Paul Wolfowitz and other Middle East analysts that...according to Bob Woodward, led to the report presented to Dubya making the case for invasion of Iraq. I know his political views are hard to nail down...sometimes he sounds liberal, sometimes conservative, sometimes moderate, but he's always working for the most important media centers in Washington....and I know that he's a plagiarist, because he had to admit to it on at least one subject he is not all-too familiar with - gun control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 What's behind the 'oil crisis', Saudi Arabia. Why? Well the Saudi's hit multiple birds with one stone here: ISIS, Iran, Russia, Canadian Oil Sands, US Shale Oil. Except that....at least according to the Wikipedia entry - Saudi Arabia's oil production peaked in March of this year at 10,3 million barrels per day, while the previous high was 10.2 million barrels per day in 2013. Looking at the graph on the same page covering 1950 to 2012, it shows production in recent years just reaching the highs set back around 1980. That doesn't sound like flooding the market/ more like falling demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Demand for oil is not very elastic. And the Saudis pumped 10.6 million barrels per day in June. http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/saudi-arabia-hikes-oil-production-to-record-high-as-opec-expects-stronger-demand-in-2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Demand for oil is not very elastic. And the Saudis pumped 10.6 million barrels per day in June. http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/saudi-arabia-hikes-oil-production-to-record-high-as-opec-expects-stronger-demand-in-2016 And 10.6 is still not that much higher than what they've been averaging over the last five years. The real problem is there's no consumer demand to spur economic growth and increase demand for oil...and there's no consumer demand because wages have stagnated for decades, and too many are already in debt and unable to keep buying more products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I say I don't trust him because he is so well connected with people in power. In 2003, he denied/then later had to admit that he got to sit in on a planning session with Paul Wolfowitz and other Middle East analysts that...according to Bob Woodward, led to the report presented to Dubya making the case for invasion of Iraq. If Zakaria denied involvement in the meeting it would be because he had to sign a confidentiality agreement. Apparently his name was also not on the report. Given his other stances on foreign policy, I highly doubt Zakaria would be a leading voice in supporting the 2003 Iraq invasion. That decision was also made in the 1990's by the neocons, they just needed the political power and excuse to invade. ....and I know that he's a plagiarist, because he had to admit to it on at least one subject he is not all-too familiar with - gun control. Yes he did once plagiarize. That was shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 And 10.6 is still not that much higher than what they've been averaging over the last five years. The real problem is there's no consumer demand to spur economic growth and increase demand for oil...and there's no consumer demand because wages have stagnated for decades, and too many are already in debt and unable to keep buying more products. There's no consumer demand so oil goes from over $100 to $38 in a year? I think there's more at play here. I also notice that although oil is today at it's lowest price in several years, gas prices in the Vancouver area remain around $1.27/litre. What a joke that is, last spring when oil was at $42, gas was around $1/ltr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 There's no consumer demand so oil goes from over $100 to $38 in a year? I think there's more at play here. I also notice that although oil is today at it's lowest price in several years, gas prices in the Vancouver area remain around $1.27/litre. What a joke that is, last spring when oil was at $42, gas was around $1/ltr. Yes, but you have to consider the USD/CAD exchange. Also, oil is oil and gas is gas - there are often disconnects between the prices due to refinery maintenance schedules and break downs/strikes which impact the price of refining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I know all that. There is price gouging going on right now, just as there is when oil goes up and gas goes up a dime per litre overnight. The oil stock they are refining into gas was purchased/valued at the cheaper price. The gas in the underground tanks at the gas stations was refined at the cheaper price. Yet they up the price on that cheaper gas anyway. It's just a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 It's just a fact. It's a free market so if you don't like the price then find another seller.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I know all that. There is price gouging going on right now, just as there is when oil goes up and gas goes up a dime per litre overnight. The oil stock they are refining into gas was purchased/valued at the cheaper price. The gas in the underground tanks at the gas stations was refined at the cheaper price. Yet they up the price on that cheaper gas anyway. It's just a fact. The best and most objective analysis for the cost of gas at the pump that I have located is at: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gas-prices-unravelling-the-mystery-of-what-you-pay-at-the-pump-1.2955763 That may or may not make the situation clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 It's a free market so if you don't like the price then find another seller.... It's a rigged market and you sound like a seller. Either that or a dairy farmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's a rigged market and you sound like a seller. Either that or a dairy farmer. No, sadly I'm a buyer. Drive around 26,000 km per year in a car with a thirsty 325hp engine. Next car will be electric and then the O&G industry can suck it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's a free market so if you don't like the price then find another seller.... It's not really a free market in Canada, but I suppose that's beside the point. I'm driving around 33000km a year, and I'm fine with paying gas that has a profit margin for the companies involved. What I'm not happy with is what I described above, and I'm somewhat puzzled at your response. You seem fine with getting ripped off and I guess I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) What I'm not happy with is what I described above, and I'm somewhat puzzled at your response. You seem fine with getting ripped off and I guess I'm not.I pay what I pay, no big deal as I can afford it. Perhaps offsetting the cost from time to time by trading UWTI and/or USO has taken some of the sting out (though I find it more pleasurable to make money from DWTI because then oil is going down while my profits are going up). But it will always be a hate/hate relationship. I'd rather drive a Tesla but I need another 200km of range to justify the price. Edited August 25, 2015 by msj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Next car will be electric and then the O&G industry can suck it!Why is it better to be forced to buy electricity from a single supplier who has artificially inflated rates due to government mismanagement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Why is it better to be forced to buy electricity from a single supplier who has artificially inflated rates due to government mismanagement? Don't live in Ontario so don't know other than less pollution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Why is it better to be forced to buy electricity from a single supplier who has artificially inflated rates due to government mismanagement? Electricity in BC is generally pretty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Electricity in BC is generally pretty cheap.Just wait til the NDP gets in. That will change as they kill off projects that actually produce useful power and force BC hydro to pay through the nose for useless solar and wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Just wait til the NDP gets in. That will change as they kill off projects that actually produce useful power and force BC hydro to pay through the nose for useless solar and wind. We have had various NDP governments since the founding of BC Hydro. Still pretty cheap power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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