What is Behind the Oil Crisis?

[TimG]

We have had various NDP governments since the founding of BC Hydro. Still pretty cheap power.

They haven't been in since the CO2 obsession became an economic suicide pact for left wing politicians. When the NDP gets their first priority will be to jack up BC hydro rates. Edited August 25, 2015 by TimG

[On Guard for Thee]

They haven't been in since the CO2 obsession became an economic suicide pact for left wing politicians. When the NDP gets their first priority will be to jack up BC hydro rates.

That's the nice thing about hydro, non of that nasty CO2. And the Liberals have already jacked them, and still nearly the cheapest on the continent.

[cybercoma]

They haven't been in since the CO2 obsession became an economic suicide pact for left wing politicians. When the NDP gets their first priority will be to jack up BC hydro rates.

Kyoto was entered into at the end of 1997. BC still had 4 more years of NDP governments. It's funny that you think CO₂ is a more recent issue.

[TimG]

Kyoto was entered into at the end of 1997. BC still had 4 more years of NDP governments. It's funny that you think CO₂ is a more recent issue.

Back in the 90s governments were content to simply spout rhetoric and do nothing. Now we see the economic destruction in places like Ontario where governments piss away billions on useless power sources and expect the consumer and businesses to pay for their mismanagement.

[cybercoma]

So let's be left in the dust while the world strategizes ways to move away from fossil fuels.

[TimG]

So let's be left in the dust while the world strategizes ways to move away from fossil fuels.

The world will move away from fossil fuels if and only if there are economically viable alternatives. When these economically viable alternatives emerge there will be no need for governments to do anything other than regulate their deployment. Forcing the wide scale deployment of alternatives that are not economically viable is a waste of resources and only causes harm as Ontario is discovering. Edited August 25, 2015 by TimG

[Bonam]

So let's be left in the dust while the world strategizes ways to move away from fossil fuels.

BC is already ahead of most of the world since it's energy is mainly supplied by hydro. No getting left in the dust there.

[Moonlight Graham]

Let's make a dam out of Niagara Falls.

[On Guard for Thee]

The world will move away from fossil fuels if and only if there are economically viable alternatives. When these economically viable alternatives emerge there will be no need for governments to do anything other than regulate their deployment. Forcing the wide scale deployment of alternatives that are not economically viable is a waste of resources and only causes harm as Ontario is discovering.

With that attitude we'd still be sleeping in caves. Alternatives don't "emerge" all by themselves. They usually have to be sought after and often have a rough time getting off the ground. Orville and Wilbur for example. Energy alternatives are at a somewhat similar or even better advanced stage just now and will likely do even better as we see GW getting worse, and even investors who may not care about enviro concerns taking a bath on fossils, again.

[TimG]

They usually have to be sought after and often have a rough time getting off the ground. Orville and Wilbur for example.

Perfect example. Orville and Wilbur funded their project themselves with no government support.

Energy alternatives are at a somewhat similar or even better advanced stage just now and will likely do even better as we see GW getting worse, and even investors who may not care about enviro concerns taking a bath on fossils, again.

If people come up with something better then it should be used. What should not happen is are government mandated use of inferior technology that cannot provide the energy we need at a reasonable price.

[On Guard for Thee]

Perfect example. Orville and Wilbur funded their project themselves with no government support.

If people come up with something better then it should be used. What should not happen is are government mandated use of inferior technology that cannot provide the energy we need at a reasonable price.

Oh I don't think so. If not for the US military and Postal Service, the Wrights wouldn't have got far from Kittyhawk. It starts with having a vision for the future, and then convincing and then selling it to others. If we just wait for the last barrel of oil to be sucked up, we are screwed. But luckily there are other Wright Brother types around.

[TimG]

If not for the US military and Postal Service, the Wrights wouldn't have got far from Kittyhawk.

The government used the technology only AFTER it refined to the point where it had economic benefits over the existing solutions. For your analogy to work the government would have mandated the mass deployment of the original plane even though the original plane was next to useless as means of transportation (which is where solar and wind are today).

Technology needs time to develop. Governments have a role supporting that development but until it is shown to be economically and technically superior to existing solutions it is waste of money to mandate its use.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TimG

[On Guard for Thee]

The government used the technology only AFTER it refined to the point where it had economic benefits over the existing solutions. For your analogy to work the government would have mandated the mass deployment of the original plane even though the original plane was next to useless as means of transportation (which is where solar and wind are today).

Technology needs time to develop. Governments have a role supporting that development but until it is shown to be economically and technically superior to existing solutions it is waste of money to mandate its use.

I think you will find solar and wind are a lot further along than you seem to think, and will continue to progress for similar reasons that got things going for aviation. Once people began to see the benefits of airplanes things progressed, just like people now see not only the potential benefits of alternative energy, but also the damage done by fossil fuels. Fasten your seat belt.

[TimG]

I think you will find solar and wind are a lot further along than you seem to think.

Solar and wind, as they exist today, can never be more than bit players because they don't provide power when it is needed. No reduction in capital costs are going to change that basic limitation. The majority of power has to come from dispatchable power sources and no government mandate can change that. Edited August 26, 2015 by TimG

[On Guard for Thee]

Solar and wind, as they exist today, can never be more than bit players because they don't provide power when it is needed. No reduction in capital costs are going to change that basic limitation. The majority of power has to come from dispatchable power sources and no government mandate can change that.

Don't forget there is also hydro and then I believe nuclear will become a larger player. Fossils, will become just that, only figuratively this time. GW has become far too evident to be ignored.

[TimG]

Don't forget there is also hydro and then I believe nuclear will become a larger player.

Hydro is good but limited by geography. I have no issue with nuclear - just wind/solar because they, in their current form, cannot provide the necessary power no matter how much money is thrown at them. Edited August 26, 2015 by TimG

[Big Guy]

I think I now understand why the Saudi's have been given a free reign to do their will:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-assured-details-of-saudi-arms-deal-would-stay-under-wraps/article26105853/

It appears that Harper has made a $15 billion military equipment deal with the Saud's. That deal will only be accepted by the Saudi's if the rest of us Canadians are not told about it. It is a secret to all except for the PMO and the Saudi family.

I hope that this "deal" is allowed to be discussed during the campaign - or is it a matter of national security?

[sharkman]

So start a thread about it. And if it's a secret, why do you know about it? It's not a secret.

[waldo]

So start a thread about it. And if it's a secret, why do you know about it? It's not a secret.

Canada’s arms deal with Saudi Arabia shrouded in secrecy

Ottawa aims to keep lid on details of Saudi arms deal

Arms sale to Saudi Arabia lowers the bar on export controls

By any modern standard, Saudi Arabia is a human-rights pariah. Yet the Canadian Commercial Corporation, a Crown corporation, has brokered a deal to supply $15-billion worth of Canadian-made armoured vehicles to the autocratic kingdom over the next decade, in what is by far the largest military export contract in Canada’s history.

While key details surrounding the deal remain shrouded in secrecy, what is known so far raises troubling questions about the effective application, and ultimate worth, of Canada’s export controls – which the government lauds as “some of the strongest in the world.” If a country with Saudi Arabia’s abysmal human-rights record is eligible to receive Canadian military goods, it is hard to fathom what sort of record a country would need to have in order to be deemed ineligible.

Canada’s export-control policy calls for a thorough human-rights assessment to be conducted before a permit can be issued for a military export deal. However, as The Globe and Mail has revealed, the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development was unable to produce any human-rights reports for the year when the deal was announced (2014) or the year before. Further, even if the necessary assessments had been conducted for the Saudi deal, DFATD has said it would keep their contents from the Canadian public, citing “commercial confidentiality.”

[Bonam]

Given that the US supplies Saudi Arabia with some of the most advanced weapons systems in the world anyway, nothing would be gained by Canada not selling weapons there.

[waldo]

Given that the US supplies Saudi Arabia with some of the most advanced weapons systems in the world anyway, nothing would be gained by Canada not selling weapons there.

gained... other than Harper ignoring, yet again, existing policy; this time in regards to export control and human-rights assessments? Other than that?

[Bonam]

In general, you'll find my arguments revolve much less around legal considerations than practical ones. In the course of commenting here, I don't really care very much if something is legal or illegal, I care whether it's a good idea or a bad idea.

[Moonlight Graham]

I hope that this "deal" is allowed to be discussed during the campaign - or is it a matter of national security?

It's a matter of money IMO. Part of the deal is that the Saudis don't want it known, especially by its regional enemies, how many vehicles and weapons it's getting from us.

[WIP]

I think I now understand why the Saudi's have been given a free reign to do their will:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-assured-details-of-saudi-arms-deal-would-stay-under-wraps/article26105853/

It appears that Harper has made a $15 billion military equipment deal with the Saud's. That deal will only be accepted by the Saudi's if the rest of us Canadians are not told about it. It is a secret to all except for the PMO and the Saudi family.

I hope that this "deal" is allowed to be discussed during the campaign - or is it a matter of national security?

It always boils down to the money! If Satan himself came in with bags of cash, they'd be shaking hands with him and posing for the cameras.

[GostHacked]

there's an oil glut... mega production and all that! In your economic understanding, how skewed is your supply versus demand? Wonder why those prices have so tanked... cause, uhhh.... supply is equaling demand?

I am still not saving a lot at the pump, or in any other sector where oil products are used.