Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Because you are associating fgm with refugees. Now who is the dishonest one. Why the hell would it not be associated with refugees!? What weird world are you living in? It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Cultural relativism is an ugly aspect of liberal bigotry.hyperbole much? Were you interested in a serious response or should I respond in kind?
Rue Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Scotty you talk ugly. People don't want ugly. They want feel good narratives. Unfortunately your "ugly" is reality and precisely stated and needs to be acknowledged. Its part of the challenge in discussing the direction of where we want Canadian society to go. Scotty we have people brought up who just take for granted their rights. I call it self entitlement. They see everything as a right, not a privilege to be earned. There's no price to be paid-you just demand, and its given. Unfortunately our Charter is reinforcing that kind that kind of belief. We say, the moment you step on Canadian soil, you have all the rights of a Canadian. You don't earn them, they just are handed to you. We say to criminals now in jail, vote. You have the right to commit crime against society and vote. I am a middle of the road man Scotty I try look for the middle but some days its increasingly hard and you have explained why. I also second Drum's comments.
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Oh. Left freaks about Harper not wanting media... but ok when JT visits a known terrorist spawning ground and doesn't want media in on the meeting. gotcha do you not accept there's a distinction between scheduled formal media scrums, leaders using the media for messaging... and private events/meetings? Surely you're not going to champion Harper for restricting media to 5 questions... select media and often pre-screened questions? Those recent day images of Harper cabinet ministers, quite literally, running away from media are certainly a reflection upon the Harper Conservative party of accountability, transparency and openness, right? can you provide a bit more detail as to the particulars of your stated visiting a "known terrorist spawning ground"? .
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Here. This is what you and your type are desperate to defend. This is the treatment of women you are championing. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34205911 does it just come natural for you to equate every Muslim with IS/ISIS/ISIL... or do you have to work at that?
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) does it just come natural for you to equate every Muslim with IS/ISIS/ISIL We're still awaiting your position on the issue. In the meantime, it's worth noting that this discussion isn't about ISIL, but rather fundamentalist religious and cultural fanatics of all stripes from the middle east. The statistic provided on female genital mutilation in Egypt is staggering and indefensible. Here you are though, trying to find some way to defend it without saying the words. Scotty is most certainly right - cultural relativism is one of the most ugly forms of bigotry. I'd go beyond that and call it one of the most damaging philosophies in the fight for sexual equality in the world today. Edited September 10, 2015 by Smallc
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) You certainly like putting words into people's mouths here. Nobody defends FGM, honour killings or anything else like that. Don't be ridiculous. At best you're being intellectually dishonest. He's not humouring you with a flat out response to it because it's a stupid question. Edited September 10, 2015 by cybercoma
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 do you not accept there's a distinction between scheduled formal media scrums, leaders using the media for messaging... and private events/meetings? Surely you're not going to champion Harper for restricting media to 5 questions... select media and often pre-screened questions? Those recent day images of Harper cabinet ministers, quite literally, running away from media are certainly a reflection upon the Harper Conservative party of accountability, transparency and openness, right? can you provide a bit more detail as to the particulars of your stated visiting a "known terrorist spawning ground"? . lol...can you seriously blame Harper with limiting MSM access with their history of bias? I, however can blame Trudeau trying to limit his choir. Why would Trudeau do that, considering they are all clamouring to shd? He is on the campaign trail, everything should be an open book, hey?
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 You certainly like putting words into people's mouths here. Nobody defends FGM, honour killings or anything else like that. Don't be ridiculous. At best you're being intellectually dishonest. He's not humouring you with a flat out response to it because it's a stupid question. Actually this is his normal way of debating. A response would be simple and definitive. His lack of clarity speaks volumes. I don't think he supports the practice. I do think he, like you, will find any way possible to defend a culture that results in a 92% rate of mutilation because it involves a 'minority' group.
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 We're still awaiting your position on the issue. I indicated each and every time you dropped a reference to your strawman, I would respond in kind with the one I crafted in response to yours... and, as you say, "We're" still awating your position on the issue: Again, why are you attaching barbarism to a culture rather than to the acts stated within that statement from the Harper Conservative brochure/pamphlet? Why are you doing that?
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Actually this is his normal way of debating. A response would be simple and definitive. His lack of clarity speaks volumes. I don't think he supports the practice. I do think he, like you, will find any way possible to defend a culture that results in a 92% rate of mutilation because it involves a 'minority' group. is your "normal way of debating" to follow this highlighted example... where you purposely... yes purposely... used a strawman to improperly and falsely represent my statements/position? Is that your "normal"?
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 why are you attaching barbarism to a culture rather than to the acts stated within that statement from the Harper Conservative brochure/pamphlet? Why are you doing that? The acts are barbaric. The culture (or in this case, Egyptian society, as a model [many of the refugees are Egyptian]) that allows a 92% rate of female genital mutilations speaks volumes of itself.
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I indicated each and every time you dropped a reference to your strawman, I would respond in kind with the one I crafted in response to yours... and, as you say, "We're" still awating your position on the issue: Again, why are you attaching barbarism to a culture rather than to the acts stated within that statement from the Harper Conservative brochure/pamphlet? Why are you doing that? lol obfuscate much? So, a murderer is not barbaric, just the act of murder is? gotcha Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo et al , aren't barbaric. Just the acts they perpetrated were. But, of course, with the Liberal stance on crime, they were misunderstood men who didn't get to suck mommas teat long enough. hey
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 lol...can you seriously blame Harper with limiting MSM access with their history of bias? I, however can blame Trudeau trying to limit his choir. Why would Trudeau do that, considering they are all clamouring to shd? He is on the campaign trail, everything should be an open book, hey? nice distinction you're making... oh wait... you didn't answer my direct request; again: can you provide a bit more detail as to the particulars of your stated visiting a "known terrorist spawning ground"? And was this recent... as you say, "on the campaign trail"? .
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 improperly and falsely represent my statements/position? Is that your "normal"? I'm waiting for you to state a position one way or the other. How do you feel about FGM? How do you feel about honour killings? How do you feel about taking refugees from a culture that results in a 92% rate of FGM? How, as a proper Liberal (since I'm apparently not, according to you, despite my social views) can you justify a position that has at best indifference and at worst mild support for said culture?
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Actually this is his normal way of debating. A response would be simple and definitive. His lack of clarity speaks volumes. I don't think he supports the practice. I do think he, like you, will find any way possible to defend a culture that results in a 92% rate of mutilation because it involves a 'minority' group.Nobody is defending FGM and "honour" killings. That's the problem. It's intellectually dishonest to even say it. It's actually offensive that you would even suggest it and more than that it shows you're not at all paying attention to the arguments.
Peter F Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 How do you feel about taking refugees from a culture that results in a 92% rate of FGM? I feel we should get them over here where the supposed 92% rate of FGM is significantly lower. Are you suggesting they should be left there? A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 lol obfuscate much? not at all... it's called dueling strawmen! I'm shocked you haven't taken member 'Smallc' to task over this! . So, a murderer is not barbaric, just the act of murder is? gotcha Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo et al , aren't barbaric. Just the acts they perpetrated were. But, of course, with the Liberal stance on crime, they were misunderstood men who didn't get to suck mommas teat long enough. hey please sir, you seem to have shifted from this threads focus on "acts versus broad-based cultural attachment" to examples of Canadian individuals/individual acts... and interpretations of "tough on crime". Are you in the right thread sir? .
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I feel we should get them over here where the supposed 92% rate of FGM is significantly lower. Are you suggesting they should be left there? I'm suggesting (based on the evidence) that a very high percentage of people from Egypt (men and women) believe in the practice. If we bring 50K refugees and 10% of them are from Egypt, using the 92% number, we're going to end up with about 4500 people who are at least somewhat comfortable with the practice.
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 not at all... it's called dueling strawmen! I'm shocked you haven't taken member 'Smallc' to task over this! . please sir, you seem to have shifted from this threads focus on "acts versus broad-based cultural attachment" to examples of Canadian individuals/individual acts... and interpretations of "tough on crime". Are you in the right thread sir? . According to some, barbaric acts should not be labelled as such, due to some twisted logic that it is offensive to the perpetrators. Does a victim care if the act is culture based, or sick twisted individual based. I was using these murderers as an example of how ludicrous this assertion is.
Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) hyperbole much? Were you interested in a serious response or should I respond in kind? The one constant of Canadian cultural and political discussion is that any suggestion that some other culture or religion elsewhere in the world is bad for some reason, or has bad things about it or is in desperate need of change, will draw left wingers falling all over themselves to proclaim that Canada is just as bad, if not worse. The only reason that could be in any way honest is if Canada's society, culture and values were exactly the same as those of say Egypt or Afghanistan or Pakistan. That clearly isn't the case. We're clearly far and away more tolerant, enlightened and culturally advanced. But those on the left continually defend the most horrific behaviour on the part of other nations or cultures out of sheer stupid ideological need to be seen as embracing other cultures. In this way you are most definitely holding yourself up as a defender and enabler of all those acts which other try to condemn. You might say you're against that vicious misogynistic mindset which sees women as sex slaves, but you won't accept or allow any criticism of the cultures which practice it. None. These are conservative religious based cultures which are never going to change from the inside, particularly since women are so repressed there. They'll only change under outside pressure, and you do your utmost to fight off such pressure any way you can. Edited September 10, 2015 by Scotty It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Nobody is defending FGM and "honour" killings. That's the problem. That's not the only question I've asked (but you would think a denunciation would be simple). Do you support a culture that results in a 92% rate of FGM?
On Guard for Thee Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Good. I want them to be. Luckily you are a minority.
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 nice distinction you're making... oh wait... you didn't answer my direct request; again: can you provide a bit more detail as to the particulars of your stated visiting a "known terrorist spawning ground"? And was this recent... as you say, "on the campaign trail"? . You are correct. The mosque that he visited while on the campaign trail, and didn't allow the media into, has not, to my knowledge, been convicted of being a terrorist spawning ground. my apologies.
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I'm suggesting (based on the evidence) that a very high percentage of people from Egypt (men and women) believe in the practice. If we bring 50K refugees and 10% of them are from Egypt, using the 92% number, we're going to end up with about 4500 people who are at least somewhat comfortable with the practice.And? There's far more than 5000 people in Canada right now with even more abhorrent beliefs. Don't you think there's less than a small possibility that immersing them in our culture will change their views?
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