Evening Star Posted August 16, 2015 Report Posted August 16, 2015 Can people give examples of which Layton-era policies were further left than current NDP policies? (I'm assuming that people mean 'left' in the sense of 'social democratic economic policy'?) If I see a change, it's that they've moved to a more clearly pro-Israel stance on foreign policy (but less radically so than Harper) and that they've largely moved away from green politics to a more traditionally pro-labour social democratic agenda. I don't exactly think of this as a shift to the right, though. Quote
socialist Posted August 16, 2015 Report Posted August 16, 2015 He's a centrist though. The NDP may be pretending they are moving to the centre, but their Policy Book clearly shows they are not. Voters should read it http://danielbeals.ndp.ca/sites/default/files/multisite/473684/field_content_files/ndp_policy_book_2013-04-17_0.pdf Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
socialist Posted August 16, 2015 Report Posted August 16, 2015 Can people give examples of which Layton-era policies were further left than current NDP policies? (I'm assuming that people mean 'left' in the sense of 'social democratic economic policy'?) If I see a change, it's that they've moved to a more clearly pro-Israel stance on foreign policy (but less radically so than Harper) and that they've largely moved away from green politics to a more traditionally pro-labour social democratic agenda. I don't exactly think of this as a shift to the right, though. This campaign will get most entertaining when the members of the media start asking Tom Mulcair and Justin Trudeau what carbon reduction targets they will set if they were to form government. Tom and Justin are allowed to keep that a big secret right now. But I don't think Tom and Justin will be able to keep their suggested carbon reduction targets a secret till the end of the campaign. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Smallc Posted August 16, 2015 Report Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Can people give examples of which Layton-era policies were further left than current NDP policies? I think for me, it has to do with where they each came from. Mulcair's background is a mixed bag. Layton's was much more social democrat. You're right though - on everything from tax policy to defence policy, the NDP haven't changed much since 2011. Edited August 16, 2015 by Smallc Quote
scribblet Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 This campaign will get most entertaining when the members of the media start asking Tom Mulcair and Justin Trudeau what carbon reduction targets they will set if they were to form government. Tom and Justin are allowed to keep that a big secret right now. But I don't think Tom and Justin will be able to keep their suggested carbon reduction targets a secret till the end of the campaign. I doubt the media will ask the hard questions, so far not enough scrutiny of their policies. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
socialist Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 I doubt the media will ask the hard questions, so far not enough scrutiny of their policies. The carbon reduction target setting is not just about how to price those carbons. If you listen carefully to NDP Linda McQuaig and also Tom Mulcair, they both say, in a muddy way, that the meeting of targets is the first priority. Tom has clearly said that Oilsands development must go hand in hand with being environmentally safe. But Tom will not mention how high he is willing to set the carbon reduction targets once he would be in power. He may very well set those targets so high that the oilsands can never ever operate under such targets. Meeting carbon reduction targets is Mulcair's number one priority. He says that. But he does NOT say what his targets will be if he is to win power. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
BC_chick Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 To make matters worse, the NDP's traditional base is shifting to the Greens all over the country. A Quebec MP from Montreal announced this weekend that he will be running for the Greens. In New Brunswick, the former leader of the NDP in the province put her support behind the Green party in the provincial election. Why are they bleeding support? Because Tom Mulcair's NDP is a centrist labour party. They're social democrats and the democratic socialists that traditionally made up a significant proportion of NDP support are dissatisfied with the party moving to the right. Many will hold their noses and vote Anything But Conservative this fall; however, a lot of these folks are of the mind that they would rather vote for a party that represents their views than play the ABC game. Couple that with Elizabeth May's stellar performance at the last debate and the NDP may get stabbed in the back while it's focused so intently on Harper. Greens are the only left-wing party left and I hope we continue to see more support for them this year. I've voted Liberal and NDP in the past but I'm done. My partner has always been LPC supporter but he's Team May now too. I also couldn't care less about ABC when I see so little difference between Harper, Trudeau and Mulcair. It'll be a minority government so it makes no difference to me which one gets the better address. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Derek 2.0 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 Why are they bleeding support? Because Tom Mulcair's NDP is a centrist labour party. They're social democrats and the democratic socialists that traditionally made up a significant proportion of NDP support are dissatisfied with the party moving to the right. Many will hold their noses and vote Anything But Conservative this fall; however, a lot of these folks are of the mind that they would rather vote for a party that represents their views than play the ABC game. That is a very good point......but then, the Federal NDP has also made the same mistake that the previous Reform/Canadian Alliance made, namely allowing your political opponents and the media to vet your own candidates......... Per CBC's poll tracker, NDP support in Alberta has nosedived from ~29%, down to 21% in the span of roughly a week after Linda McQuaig's comments on the oil sands........I fully expect the NDP's numbers to continue to plummet in not only Alberta, but the rest of the West, including BC, as their natural resources/energy policy is further examined......... The BC NDP, who had a huge lead over the BC Liberals (and could expect vote splitting with the BC Conservatives) gave the BC Liberals another majority with their energy/pipeline policies during the campaign........The NDP seem to forget that the O&G industry runs on the backs of union labour, comprising the middle class........going after gun owners, a very large voting bloc in Alberta and BC doesn't help either. Quote
waldo Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 Per CBC's poll tracker per CBC's poll tracker: Quebec currently Conservatives' only hope for seat gains Quebec and Harper Conservatives? Oh my! Quote
cybercoma Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Posted August 18, 2015 The problem for the NDP (and the Liberals for that matter) is Ontario. Unless Ontario leaves the Conservatives, Harper wins another term. NDP or LPC have to WIN Ontario. If the race is even remotely close, it will swing Conservative on election day. Right now Ontario is in a stalemate. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
Exegesisme Posted August 22, 2015 Report Posted August 22, 2015 It depends on the distribution of the favorable poll numbers. A good distribution of the favorable poll numbers is more important than just a few more favorable percentages of a pull. However, if the poll numbers are accurate and without significant increase, the CP will suffer from loss. Quote
Vancouver King Posted August 22, 2015 Report Posted August 22, 2015 It depends on the distribution of the favorable poll numbers. A good distribution of the favorable poll numbers is more important than just a few more favorable percentages of a pull. However, if the poll numbers are accurate and without significant increase, the CP will suffer from loss. Conservatives are going to have to improve their 2011 Ontario results as the increasing NDP strength in Quebec and Atlantic Canada spell losses for the CPC. For the first time in decades BC, with 42 seats, will be where the party with the biggest seat count will be crowned. The province can hardly be described as Conservative friendly. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
socialist Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 Like the NDP's $2.7 million for the mystery satellite offices that kind of lying? Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Evening Star Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 For the first time in decades BC, with 42 seats, will be where the party with the biggest seat count will be crowned. The province can hardly be described as Conservative friendly. The Conservatives totally dominated BC in the last three federal elections, actually. But, yeah, polls are suggesting that could change this time. (Polls also suggested that the NDP would win their last provincial election, too, though.) Quote
cybercoma Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Posted August 28, 2015 Like the NDP's $2.7 million for the mystery satellite offices that kind of lying?[/size]They're not a mystery. The NDP has been completely open about those offices and want a public trial, which will be open record on them. Your buddy, Stephen is the one who wants to adjudicate the issue behind closed door where nobody can see. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
ToadBrother Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 They're not a mystery. The NDP has been completely open about those offices and want a public trial, which will be open record on them. Your buddy, Stephen is the one who wants to adjudicate the issue behind closed door where nobody can see. Except the courts have no jurisdiction over Parliament. No other branch of government has had any authority over Parliament's governance and privileges since Speaker William Lenthall refused to allow Charles I to arrest the Five Members in January 1642. Even if the Committee of Internal Economy was utterly unfair (which I don't believe), it's not the court's place to intrude upon Parliament's own processes and governance. Our constitutional system of government is built on Parliament's independence. Quote
ToadBrother Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 They're not a mystery. The NDP has been completely open about those offices and want a public trial, which will be open record on them. Your buddy, Stephen is the one who wants to adjudicate the issue behind closed door where nobody can see. The very last polls before the last provincial election showed the BC Liberals were, if not in a deadheat, rapidly closing the gap. But I'm looking at ridings, even my own, where the NDP are so far ahead that it's difficult to imagine how the Tory candidate could ever hope to make the difference. The longstanding conservative grip on BC that's been around since the Reform days looks to be slipping. They had a 20-odd year run of being the dominant party, but nothing lasts forever. Quote
Evening Star Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 The very last polls before the last provincial election showed the BC Liberals were, if not in a deadheat, rapidly closing the gap. Right. I should have said "polls a month or two ahead of the last provincial election". Quote
Vancouver King Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 Right. I should have said "polls a month or two ahead of the last provincial election". I will be surprised if the NDP finishes in BC with less than 25 MPs. Liberals should be second and Conservatives will be left a half dozen Okanagan/North East seats. Elizabeth May will, of course, come away with her own constituency. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
Army Guy Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 Greens are the only left-wing party left and I hope we continue to see more support for them this year. I've voted Liberal and NDP in the past but I'm done. My partner has always been LPC supporter but he's Team May now too. I also couldn't care less about ABC when I see so little difference between Harper, Trudeau and Mulcair. It'll be a minority government so it makes no difference to me which one gets the better address. Watching her in the debates and on the media, she is good.....i may not like all of her policies, but she is always prepared, with details and facts.....far more than the other guys.....rarely does she wing it or spew the same pre programed answers over and over....i much rather see her than the NDP or Liberals in charge....to bad she was'nt more on the right..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 Except the courts have no jurisdiction over Parliament. No other branch of government has had any authority over Parliament's governance and privileges since Speaker William Lenthall refused to allow Charles I to arrest the Five Members in January 1642. Even if the Committee of Internal Economy was utterly unfair (which I don't believe), it's not the court's place to intrude upon Parliament's own processes and governance. Our constitutional system of government is built on Parliament's independence. If that was true, then why has the SCC struck down several bills, say like bill 51 and others......I ve read how the government is suppose to work, parliament has the authority to make or change any law, bill or constitution item it wants....please explain.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
socialist Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 This is what NDP governments do. Is this what you want federally? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-s-credit-rating-downgraded-due-to-growing-debt-1.3147120 Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Topaz Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 This is what NDP governments do. Is this what you want federally? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-s-credit-rating-downgraded-due-to-growing-debt-1.3147120 No two leaders of the same party govern the same, IF that were true Harperman wouldn't been elected. Quote
socialist Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 No two leaders of the same party govern the same, IF that were true Harperman wouldn't been elected. It is becoming increasingly likely that angry Tom will be our next PM. That worries me. But what worries me more is the quality of MPs that will be brought aboard. They are some of the most naïve, inexperienced, historically illiterate people you will ever meet. The NDP won't win a majority unless Ontario elects to commit suicide. I still have a certain amount of faith in the province that won't be the case. And Justin; he certainly is living up to his credentials. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
cybercoma Posted August 29, 2015 Author Report Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) You both should refrain from using inappropriate nicknames for party leaders per the "Insults" section of the Forum Rules and Guidelines. Edited August 29, 2015 by cybercoma Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
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