U.S. and G5 + 1 Cave to Iran in Nuclear "Deal"

[Hudson Jones]

That's just what he thinks. There is no question in my mind that those who continually use terms like "Zionist" are anti-Semites of the worst sort.

You should question the things in your mind. Because you are often wrong.

Perhaps Marcus should be more specific about what kind of Zionists are pushing for war, instead of a deal. Adelson has dropped millions to fight against the deal that the whole world (except for Israel/Far right Zionists/Neo-Cons) agree with. This is the same Adelson that has said Iran should be nuked. The same Adelson that will be bankrolling war mongers in the GOP.

It's important to acknowledge that majority of American Jews support the Iran deal.

The poll, which was conducted among 1,000 adults who identify as Jewish, found that 60 percent of those questioned said they supported the agreement that aims to curb Iran’s nuclear ambitions in exchange for the lifting of US and international sanctions.

The number closely reflected the results of J Street’s previous poll in June, conducted before the agreement was reached, which found that 59% of American Jewish adults supported the nuclear deal.

[Rue]

Quit acting like a baby. It is the Zionists (Bibi/AIPAC/Adelson) and the neo-cons who have been pushing to ruin the Iran deal. That's reality.

You tried to use the excuse of Iran's human rights violations, which is a reality, in order to sell not making a deal with Iran. Then I showed you the stance of one of the best known Iranian human rights activists and how not making a deal and shutting Iran out is actually making the human rights situation worse.

1. Pointing out you are a bigot and name call is not acting like a baby-its holding you accountable for a tone or level of debate that stains this forum and renders you lacking in any credibility;

2.You showed me what? You showed me that you ignore the UN, Amnesty International, and all the other international human rights organizations that have condemned Iran, but will use those same organizations' quotes if they apply to Israel-that shows me you have zero credibility;

3. Then you argue unfreezing $150 billion and giving it to a country currently financing terrorists world wide, financing civil wars in Bahrain, Yemen, Iraq and Syria and carry out as we speak human rights violations against its own people-will stop doing such things if they are given $150 billion and nuke weapons-makes sense, first thing I want to give a regime that has zero respect for humanity, money and weapons.

Using your logic, this will make them what happy? I get it. Let's pay off terrorists. They only engage in terror because we withold money from them.

Brilliant logic.

[Rue]

Perhaps Marcus should be more specific about what kind of Zionists are pushing for war, instead of a deal.

Given you and he engage in constant slurs of Jews and Zionists on this forum and now on this thread, cyour words above are a joke.

You have tried now three times in this thread to state the majority of Jews in the U.S. favour the deal.

Why is their religion so important to you?

Its particularly interesting considering you have also come on this forum many times stating AIPAC and Jews control the US and its media in favour of Israel.

Wooooooooops. Clearly your theory all Jews think the same and are pro Israel and control the US has changed. Hey now. What happened? If the Jews control the US how did Obama and these Jews do w hat they did?

Oh how convenient the way you slip and slide about using your your bigoted stereotypes depending on how you want to exploit that Jew card now doesn't it...

Do you point out all the Muslims or Christians who were against the deal with Iran? Why only Jews?

Jews disagree with one another on what Israel does no differently than any other human-why suddenly do you need to keep raising this only when its Jews?

One can disagree or agree with Netanyahuo or agree or disagree with Obama over Iran and be a Zionist, anti-Zionist, Christian, Jewish, a Muslim how is that relevant?

Opinions are no more or less valid simply because of one's religion.

I respect many people who want peace and support the nuke deal with Iran. I respect many people who disagree with certain Israel foreign policies. It doesn't make them anti-semitic or even anti Israeli. Certain Israelis agree with the deal. Doesn't make them traitors.

I would argue HJ keeps raising the Jew identity card for the reason explained below in the article I list:

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/in-the-enemys-sneer-the-anti-semitic-jews/

Here is a portion of that article entitled entitled ; In the enemy’s sneer: the anti-Semitic Jews by Fred Maroun,August 1, 2015 and before anyone responds with the lame answer that not all people who criticize Israel are anti semitic-get this clear, its not what the article says or I have said-I am challenging why HJ uses the Jew identity card in this and other threads:

"Those who hate Israel use anti-Zionist Jews as examples to “prove” that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism.....anti-Zionist Jews play an important role in the international coalition aiming to delegitimize and destroy the Jewish state. As the theory goes, since there are Jews who hate Israel then hating Israel is not anti-Semitic. “Are you telling me that these Jews are anti-Semitic?” anti-Zionists ask with a sneer. Yes actually, that is exactly what I am telling you. Anti-Zionist Jews are anti-Semites, just like all the other anti-Zionists.

Most anti-Semitic Jews live in the United States of America where they are not threatened, and where their choice to be anti-Zionist is celebrated by hordes of anti-Semites both in the USA and in the rest of the world. These Jews have discovered that being anti-Zionist is an easy way to be seen as a “good Jew” by the “in” crowd that views anti-Israel activism as a fashion statement.

Jewish anti-Semites must be condemned just as strongly as we condemn anyone else who hates Israel and who judges Israel by an impossible standard while ignoring any standards of conduct for Israel’s enemies."

Edited August 6, 2015 by Rue

[CITIZEN_2015]

Anyhow this is coming directly from NATIONAL POST today. You can see the full article for yourself.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/letters-how-big-a-threat-does-iran-pose

"Iran is probably the most Westernized of all Islamic States. Life in Iran is likely the most equitable provided you are a Muslim and not a political radical. Elections are held within limits. Compare Iran with other Islamic states our allies the "good guys" Egypt is govern by military dictatorship which has made the most popular political party illegal. Iraq is a failed state. Saudi Arabia is a kingdom in which women lack basic rights. We saved Libya which is now a failed state following Iraq model - without its justification. North America should grow up."

No btw I am not the writer Mark Holmes though he is saying above what I have been more or less saying past few days in this thread. My interests are national/international politics and economics apart from my own profession by which I make a living. My assessments come from various sources including many people I have met at various stages of my life at college, university, workplace, travelling abroad, social gatherings,.....etc. of various nationalities including Iranians (as well as other nationals like Eastern Europeans, Greeks, British, British Jews, Americans, Chinese, Lebanese as well as a couple of visiting Israeli nationals).

I can tell you that no Iranian wishes an attack on his or her country by anyone so please stop propaganda and falsehood. I found Iranian nationalism strongest of all. They will never collaborate with any foreign power last of all Israel to encourage or trigger an attack on their homeland. Most of them blame the US for their problems now (i.e. The 1953 CIA sponsored military coup) and some even blame the British for the present government. To be fair and honest some of them wished a US military invasion a decade ago but not now as they realized that a ground invasion by any power is impossible and also especially when they witnessed the devastation and disaster on Iraq after American latest invasion. And yes a big majority support the nuclear deal. Just to add humor at the end they hate to be mistaken as Arabs. There is a joke going on that if you mistakenly called an Iranian an Arab then run for your life.

Scenario 1 - The deal goes through:

What I anticipate is that this deal will bring peace instead of war. Not a single shot will be fired between Iran and anyone over the next 10 years. More moderate governments will come to power in Iran. Europe (now) and US and Canada (in 5 to 10 years) will have relations and embassies and trades. Both sides win and Israel will be in no danger.

Scenario 2 - The deal is rejected:

Without this deal war will break out. US (lobbied by strong Zionist groups) will attack Iran likely with some Israeli help. Iran will retaliate against both by military and other means. Worst of all Canada may be dragged into the war (like they did in Afghanistan) and very sadly Canadians may die too. Many thousands of civilians on Iran and Israel side will die more so on Iran's side. Iran's hardliners will push out the moderates and will take over. Attacks on Israel borders will increase tenfold. Iran will also seriously pursue nuclear weapons and will race to build A bombs after an attack by any possible means and will become a nuclear power in a short time after such attack. What would happen afterwards I hate to speculate or worse write about.

Lets support negotiations and peace to war and mongering is my slogan.

Edited August 8, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Big Guy]

To CITIZEN_2015 - I share most of your views on this issue and your inability to cut and paste into this site. At first, it was an irritation and frustrating, especially where long and complicated addresses were required.

The positive results have been that I am far more selective of which posts to reply to and just let the silly and adolescent ones go by.

# I have been told to try Google Chrome but my system will not allow it.

[Hudson Jones]

The extremists are trying to cloud the debate with emotional comments and comparisons. Such as comparing Iran to Nazi Germany.

Here is a sobering article from a "self-hating" Jew. One of 60% of Jewish Americans who reject the Extremist Zionists/Neo-con/AIPAC/Huckabee attempt to derail the Iran deal.

Why Iran Isn’t Nazi Germany

The idea that Iranian leaders seek another Holocaust is at the emotional core of opposition to the nuclear deal. Is it true?

[CITIZEN_2015]

Yes a big rift is developing between Obama and strong pro-Israeli groups in the US.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/world/middleeast/fears-of-lasting-rift-as-obama-battles-pro-israel-group-on-iran.html

They stand short of nothing to kill the deal because this time round likely first time ever they didn't get all that they wanted from an American president whose election/reelection depends on the support from these groups and they are angry and lobbying hard to get the deal killed. They should read the two scenarios I described in my previous post and think about what they are doing twice.

Edited August 8, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

# I have been told to try Google Chrome but my system will not allow it.

What? That seems even stranger than the inability to c/p.

[GostHacked]

Do provide the details of the attack on nuclear facilities in Iran.

You heard of Stuxnet right? Not everything that is an attack comes in a physical bomb. This one was digital. But it's interesting that you do not contest the attack on Iraq's nuclear site.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Big Guy is correct. I was able to copy and paste the link to my previous post when I logged on using Google Chrome. Thanks Big Guy.

Yes Stuxnet was a cyber attack on Iran's nuclear facilities but unlike the military attack on Iraq's I am not sure Israelis ever admitted that they carried out this attack. They are also believed to be behind assassinations of Iran's nuclear scientists but again I don't think they ever admitted that either.

Edited August 8, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Rue]

HJ you have in past posts equated Israel and Zionism to Nazism. You have equated their treatment of Palestinians as the same as how Nazis treated Jews. So for you to now you come on his board and with a veiled reference to call me an extremist claiming I said Iran is engaging in a holocaust is not only two faced but it is an out and out falsehood.

Again you make a false accusation-back it up. Which words did I use accusing Iran of engaging in a holocaust ? Once again you flsely assign words to me. The bait HJ won't work.

As well your need to constantly point out when someone who disagrees with Israel on something is Jewish and not Christian or Muslim is bigoted, anti-Semitic and it clearly shows your true agenda to come on this board and personally attack and insult Jews who support Israel's right to exist inferring we are bad Jews carrying out an earlier tactic where I was questioned as being a Jew.

I will say this again to you and anyone else on this board who comes to use such threads to bait Jews who support Israel, you can misrepresent me or anyone else all you want it won't change the thread-its about Iran and Iran is and remains an extremist Muslim fascist regime that promotes and imposes a police state. It harasses, tortures and kills its political opponent. people it perceives as gay, feminist, Jews, Bahaiis, Christians, Kurds, Zoroastreans Sunnis to name but a few targets. It is wrong to appease it just as it was misguided to try appease Hitler, Stalin and the North Koreans.

It commits human rights violations around the world financing terrorists and in its very own backyard. It killed 120,000 students for daring stand up to it.

It is a regime that finances terrorists and violent bloodshed, torture and death of innocent people. It repeats daily its goal is to destroy Israel violently. It has stated openly its no.1 priority is to dismantle Israel as a Jewish state and by violence

You can misrepresent all you want, make false accusations, defend this despicable regime and ignore what it is but it won' change what this regime is.

Your latest device of propping Jews who you think disagree with Israel is pathetic anti semitic baiting to show what you think is a good Jew, precisely the kind of Jew who knows their place-without their own country.

You are out of line playing people's religion on this forum and the more you do it the more you prove my point.

.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Rue

[jbg]

Back to the question of trust. There are many who decry this deal because of the "trust" factor. The most vocal spokesman on this line of criticism is Netanyahu. This is how much we (and the Americans) can trust Netanyahu;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/24/report-israel-spied-on-iran-u-s-talks-and-shared-information-with-lawmakers/

Israel spied on the negotiations and tried to derail them behind the back of the American administration. This is a country we are supposed to trust?

Time to cut ties with Israel and look to Iran as our ally in the Middle East.

Obama and Kerry are not people I can trust to uphold the interests of America and its allies. They believe in "world government" and not in Pax Americana. Sorry, they are beholden to their own country, not the world.

[jbg]

No one is giving Iran money. This is money that already belongs to them. The assets are being unfrozen. This is misinformation that is not only repeated by you and a few others on here, but also in the media.

The only giving by U.S. is the $3 billion+ that is given to Israel to spend on weapons that end up killing innocent Palestinian and Lebanese civilians.

Their assets should be subject first to the claims of terror victims of entities and governments they've funded and then, after those are paid, returned.

[Big Guy]

If I had a choice of a leadership that was beholden to the world or one that was beholden to Canada - I would quickly choose the one beholden to Canada.

[eyeball]

Obama and Kerry are not people I can trust to uphold the interests of America and its allies. They believe in "world government" and not in Pax Americana. Sorry, they are beholden to their own country, not the world.

Oh tthhhppbbbt, these clowns are as beholden to this stupid no world government meme as any diehard conservative.

It begs the question, do you folks expect there will NEVER be a one government as in forever and ever and ever? Pax humanity is completely out of the question for all eternity? It's ludicrous.

I'm sure you'll come back with a token 'maybe some day' but when,100 years, 10,000...a million? Is there any set of circumstances you can imagine or demand before entertaining the idea or is it an utterly and totally verboten notion?

[WWWTT]

Their assets should be subject first to the claims of terror victims of entities and governments they've funded and then, after those are paid, returned.

Great idea!

Lets start with compensate the Africans brought to the US for slavery!

In other words, lets use US logic first on the US. See how that works, then move from there.

What's the matter? Can't take what you want to dish on other people/nations?

WWWTT

[CITIZEN_2015]

Their assets should be subject first to the claims of terror victims of entities and governments they've funded and then, after those are paid, returned.

In that case US must pay all they have to the countries they have directly or indirectly destroyed past 70 years like Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Chile, Japan,..... you name it. The money is Iran's and belongs to Iranian people to better their lives.

Edited October 25, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[bush_cheney2004]

...In other words, lets use US logic first on the US. See how that works, then move from there.

Sure...soon as we have Canadian logic first on Canada....start with how FN's got/still get hosed.

[Big Guy]

Was watching the Sunday political shows. One American Senator was hedging her vote on supporting or rejecting the deal by explaining that she was waiting to get replies from various other world governments (like India, China Russia ...) to see if they will be releasing Iranian assets no matter what USA does.

She implied that some have already responded that they will do so she was questioning the effectiveness of the USA going it alone.

According to a study by NIAC, sanctions cost U.S. over $175b in lost trade and 279,000 lost job opportunities. Between 2010 and 2012, sanctions cost the EU states more than twice as much as the USA in terms of lost trade revenue. Germany was hit the hardest, losing between $23.1b and $73.0 billion between 2010-2012, with Italy and France following at $13.6-$42.8 billion and $10.9-$34.2 billion respectfully.

Time to ratify that deal and give a boost to the world economy.

[Rue]

Boost to the world economy right. Well certainly for weapons producers who will now be able to start selling again to Iranian financed terrorists.

[Hudson Jones]

Their assets should be subject first to the claims of terror victims of entities and governments they've funded and then, after those are paid, returned.

Then how would assets of hundreds of thousands of others around the world who have been victims of terror be compensated? Do we start freezing Israeli assets until they pay Palestinian victims?

[GostHacked]

Boost to the world economy right. Well certainly for weapons producers who will now be able to start selling again to Iranian financed terrorists.

Seems like western weapons producers are still making a killing too.

[CITIZEN_2015]

d

Edited October 25, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Rue]

To counter false statements and preposterous allegations made by very few in this thread regading how horrible Iranian nation is I am attaching this recent article coming from a Jewish Journalist who visited Iran (and am ready to attach many more links from other visitors too).

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/world/middleeast/reporting-from-iran-jewish-paper-sees-no-plot-to-destroy-israel.html?_r=0

And btw this is how intellectuals think about Iran deal:

http://www.npr.org/2015/08/10/431343074/scientists-write-letter-to-obama-praising-iran-nuclear-deal

And experienced Army officers

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/retired-generals-and-admirals-back-iran-nuclear-deal/2015/08/11/bd26f6ae-4045-11e5-bfe3-ff1d8549bfd2_story.html

And political opportunism and show off by opponents of the deal VERSUS Credible supporters:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/12/iran-deal-supporters-credibility

Oh well then that settles it. Iran's regime is wonderful.

[Rue]

Oh its time for a rebuttal. Lol.

Come on now Citizen, guess which country provides the terrorist organization Hezbollah, $100-200 million per year in funding. Oh go on now guess.

source; http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/iran-and-Hizbullah-significance-of-the-francop-interception- See more at: http://jcpa.org/killing-americans-allies-irans-war/#sthash.X6oPaYpV.dpuf

Wait it gets better, Guess who In February 2014, added to its list of global terrorists three IRGC (Iranian Guard but you knew that) officers and one “associate” who are involved in the “use of terrorism and intelligence operations as tools of influence against the Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.”

wait go here for the answer:

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl2287.aspx

Say you know what their names are Citizen, well lets start with; Pourya Nayebi, Houshang Hosseinpour, and Houshang Farsoudeh. hey now, guess what country they are from. Oh go on now.....

Here's another question.

In April 2013, a joint U.S.-Canada investigation thwarted a terrorist plot by two co-conspirators to derail a Canadian passenger train carrying passengers between Toronto and New York. One of the perpetrators, Chiheb Esseghaier, a Tunisian-born doctoral student, ve travelled to which country within two years of the attempted attack.

Oh go on guess Citizen. It begans with an I, ends with N and has the leters ra in between.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/25/us-arrests-iran-idUSBRE93O1D320130425#sthash.X6oPaYpV.dpuf

So tell me Citizen In March 2014, the Israel Navy boarded and seized the Klos-C, a Panamanian-flagged ship . Can you guess what it was carrying and from where. here's a hint. The country starts with an I, ends with an n, and has ra in between those letters.

Get out. Yes Citizen it was carrying M302 missiles bound for the Hamas, and two million kilograms of Iranian cement. What use that cement for tunnels. Oh no humanitarian purposes right? .

source: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/israel-naval-raid-seizes-gaza-bound-iranian-arms#sthash.X6oPaYpV.dpuf

Citizen your continued attempts to portray Iran as a sweet peace loving country is laughable. yah yah Hitler was really a nice guy. he made trains run on time you know.

Your beloved "Supreme Leader) lor Feuhrer as I call him, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei stated in October of 2014 that he promised increased support for Palestinian terrorists and urged them to stockpile arms in anticipation of a new war on after making public comments made with members of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror group. Are you telling me, you, a good Iranian did not know this when it was broadcast across the Iranian and Arab medias?

Oh let me refresh your memory he stated and I quote, “Fighting the Zionist regime [israel] is a war of destiny,”..but wait did you forget that. Its there for anyone to find on the Fars News Agency,

He also instructed is terrorist friends to and I quote: “intensify their fight against the Israeli regime” .

Does it ring a bell? You remember he also promited continue to arm Palestinian terrorists in both the Gaza Strip and West Bank, according to Fars?

You do know he called out to all Palestinian terrorists groupsto prepare for another war with Israel. Who you remember that? Lol.

Oh come on let me help, his exact words were:

“The resistance movements in Palestine should boost their preparedness day by day and reinforce their power resources inside Gaza,”

Khamenei also said in late August 2014, and hey now it was also on the Fars News Agency:

“The enemy should feel the same worries in the West Bank as it does in Gaza....Tehran will continue its support for the Palestinian “resistance.”

“The Islamic Republic and the Iranian people are proud of your victory and resistance, and hope that the back-to-back triumphs of resistance groups will continue until final victory,” .

Hey you know what I say to all that Citizen, what so many of us do when you try pull this shtick that Iran is peace loving and that is YABBA DUBBAH DO.

Its an expression first used by a well known 60's philosopher, Fred Flintstone.

Iran as we speak is openly financing, sending arms, training terrorists and rebuilding tunnels to attack Israel and you want to pull this peace loving shtick? Do you not think the crap that is broadcast daily across the ME and by Fars is not known to Westerners? You think we are all stunned? Hmmmmm?

Do you really want to come on this board and deny Iran's continued support of terrorists whose aim is to violently destroy Israel and for that matter set up a Shiite empire in all of the ME? You really want to play that game?

Iran has openly supplied advanced missiles to its surrogates in the region without a word of condemnation from the West.


Your Supreme Leader.Khamenei has stated repeatedly to Fars News agency that by bolstering the missile arsenals of Hamas and Hezbollah, Israel’s security is now compromiused and “the liberation of Jerusalem – which is the duty of every Muslim” is now achievable. Oh but wait, you never head im say that,

Finally what makes your shtick trying to pose this Iranian regime as peace loving truly a crock of steaming dung is the following;

You would have us believe you are not aware that in fact your Supreme leader has just ewcwbrkt publishged a 416-page manifesto entitled " Palestine " in which he describes how Israel should be destroyed and how the deception of the US should be continued.

Please do not tell me it skipped your attention or that you are unaware it refers to your beloved leader Khamenei as "The flag bearer of Jihad to liberate Jerusalem," .

Interesting how its only published in Farsi and distributed in Iran and that the New York Post found out about it, but hey the New York Times has not mentioned it.

Go on admit what it states. Khamenei asserts that Israel does not have a right to exist as a state.

You think I do not know what he means when he uses words such as "nabudi " (annhiliation, absolute destruction, wiping out) and "zaval" which means effacement eradication, erasure, when he discusses what to do with Israel.

Give it a rest. Iran is a fascist, totalitarian police state, run by Muslim Shiite extremists who believe the world must be run by a Shiite clergy council and that anyone who does not follow the clergy, are infidel expendable in a holy war along with ANY Jew or non Muslim.

Get back to me when you acknowledge what your regime is about. This pathetic denial reads like one of Josef Goebel's transparent WW2 brochures on Germany.