bush_cheney2004 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 ...Once a government changes - all agreements are off - unless the new government wants to recognize that agreement. No...this is quite false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) To TimG - I wish I could agree but my interpretation of history tells me differently. Democracy is a very sophisticated social, organization.Who said anything about democracy? I was talking about freedom of speech and, in particular, freedom to dissent with the government. A democracy that suppressed freedom a speech would still be problematic. Look what happened when the oppressive dictatorship of Yugoslavia was replaced by a form of self determination. They have yet to recover even after about a quarter of a million were killed. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia, Vietnam had governments which suppressed internal dissent until the West came in and gave them the freedom to start killing each other.Again, I never said that all societies are able to meet these standards, however, only societies which don't meet these standards can't be our 'allies'. One point I did not raise before: Canada can't be allies with everyone. It must choose a sides. i.e. being an 'ally' with Iran would preclude any alliance with Israel. When it is necessary to choose, Canada should always choose the liberal democratic state over the theocratic one. In the long term the self interest of liberal democratic states better aligns with Canada's interests. Edited July 20, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Barack Hussein Obama wants one thing and that is to be liked by as many people as possible. Sorry that is not the function of a leader. A leader must first advocate for the entity that he/she leads and that is the United States. The leader must second make decisions in the interest of the United States. Not what's good for the world; what's good for his country. Barack Hussein Obama is, as to the Constitution, an "Article III Section 3" President: Section 3 Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. (emphasis supplied) Edited July 20, 2015 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 An update on international evaluation of the "deal" - I have checked most of the international press and it appears that the consensus is that the deal will come through. There has even been speculation that the Tehran airport will have to be expanded to accommodate the impending hordes of investors and capitalists from around the world trying to get into the Iranian markets and sphere of influence. If we were smart then Canada would be one of the first in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) If we were smart then Canada would be one of the first in line.Not unless Iran makes amends for torturing and murdering Canadian journalists. The sham of a deal which Iran will renege on is hardly sufficient. I am curious, is there any behavoir that you find so objectionable that you would not want Canada to do business with the country? Edited July 20, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Right wingers hate this deal? In that case there's probably no better indication that it's a good deal for the world. I find that a fairly accurate yardstick as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Not unless Iran makes amends for torturing and murdering Canadian journalists So when is the US going to make amends for Canadians like Khadr whom was tortured by them? Double standard! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Two wrongs make an acceptable moral value says WWWT. Logic at its best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 WWWT you want talk double standard? Finish it then. Explain how you apply the standard you do to Iran. Explain how you conveniently ignore its violations of human rights and its financing of terrorism world wide? Double standard? It begins and ends with you and pro Iranians on this board who pretend Iran is a moral regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) So when is the US going to make amends for Canadians like Khadr whom was tortured by them?A journalist reporting things that the government did not like was murdered by the Iranian government and you compare this to the incarceration of someone who the US had good reason to believe was culpable in the death of a US citizen? Moreover, the Canadian was beaten and raped by Iranian officials and you really think this is somehow equivalent to the allegations of psychological torture at Guantanamo? You need to give your head a shake. Edited July 20, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Two wrongs make an acceptable moral value says WWWT. Logic at its best. Don't know what you're writing about here??? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 WWWT you want talk double standard? Finish it then. Explain how you apply the standard you do to Iran. Explain how you conveniently ignore its violations of human rights and its financing of terrorism world wide? Double standard? It begins and ends with you and pro Iranians on this board who pretend Iran is a moral regime. No more a regime than the conservative government. You really like to use labels, wishy washy words and other terms that have uncertain meanings to paint an picture don't you? Then you make claim of what posters on this board believe. Old fashioned debate tactics you're using my friend. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 A journalist reporting things that the government did not like was murdered by the Iranian government and you compare this to the incarceration of someone who the US had good reason to believe was culpable in the death of a US citizen? I'm sure that's what you believe. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Netanyahu and multiple pro-Israeli lobbies are working round the clock, 24/7, to defeat the Iran nuclear accord of 14 July in the US Congress--AIPAC is only one among many other such warmongering entities -- one very effective antidote to their vicious orchestration of power and propaganda to persuade the US to invade and dismantle yet another nation-state on their behalf is this video of Benjamin Netanyahu coming to the US Congress in 2002 to persuade them to invade Iraq--just look at his vulgar lying face when he says, "there is no question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking and is working and is advancing towards the development of nuclear weapon--no question whatsoever . . . ." -- the same war criminal charlatan and his army of propagandists are now at it yet again --trying to wage more wars, cause more murder and mayhem, this time in Iran -- Here is also the testimony of the US Secretary of State John Kerry pointing out Netanyahu's warmongering at the US Senate: Link There are many issues about the Iran nuclear accord one can point to --mostly compromising the sovereignty of Iran as an independent nation-state --but it has one abiding and indubitable virtue --it may avert yet another disastrous war in the region--it is a testimony to the possibility of civilized diplomacy averting the terror of military confrontation -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Netanyahu and his supporters can work till he's blue in the face to undermine this breakthrough. It is getting obvious that he wants the USA and Iran going to war so that Israel can clean up what is left. I am sure that he is doing what is best for Israel but the rest of the world is getting a little tired of the aggressions and excuses. The UN has just adopted the "deal"; http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/security-council-adopts-resolution-endorsing-iran-nuclear-deal-150720131953369.html So now even if somehow the congress votes against it, Obama vetoes and congress over rides the veto then the other members - UK China, Russia et al will lift sanctions and the USA will find itself alone - except for Canada until Oct 19. If Harper was smart and had Canadian interests in mind then he would start building ties with Iran immediately and start cutting them with Israel. Western businesses are already booking flights to Tehran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 To TimG - You asked - "Is there any behaviour that objectionable that I would not want Canada to do business with the country."? Any country doing things that have a negative impact on Canada would probably be on that list. If we were consistent about isolating countries that invade, kill and/or subjugate peoples of other nations then we would have to drop Israel, USA, China etc from our list. We are not consistent so we cannot. As to killing and maiming of Canadians, more Canadians have been killed in Mexico than in Iran. I ask you TimG, what behaviour would be objectionable by members of a nation, enough for you that you would not want Canada to do business with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Thank you for the compliment, but I would hate to deprive you from your favourite pass time. Are you going to stay by your comment or not? Will you accept the agreement or you don't have confidence with your random comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Netanyahu and multiple pro-Israeli lobbies are working round the clock, 24/7, to defeat the Iran nuclear accord of 14 July in the US Congress--AIPAC is only one among many other such warmongering entities -- one very effective antidote to their vicious orchestration of power and propaganda to persuade the US to invade and dismantle yet another nation-state on their behalf is this video of Benjamin Netanyahu coming to the US Congress in 2002 to persuade them to invade Iraq--just look at his vulgar lying face when he says, "there is no question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking and is working and is advancing towards the development of nuclear weapon--no question whatsoever . . . ." -- the same war criminal charlatan and his army of propagandists are now at it yet again --trying to wage more wars, cause more murder and mayhem, this time in Iran -- Here is also the testimony of the US Secretary of State John Kerry pointing out Netanyahu's warmongering at the US Senate: Link There are many issues about the Iran nuclear accord one can point to --mostly compromising the sovereignty of Iran as an independent nation-state --but it has one abiding and indubitable virtue --it may avert yet another disastrous war in the region--it is a testimony to the possibility of civilized diplomacy averting the terror of military confrontation -- The only time Netanyahu is not lying is when he's not yapping. He is nothing but a slimy car salesman who will lie and cheat and do whatever it takes to make a sale for war and destruction. Obama and most world leaders know that Netanyahu does nothing but lie. It's too bad they have to play politics with this unfortunate ugly creature as he does have the lobby groups and billionaire like adelson paying off prostitutes in Congress and Senate. Edited July 20, 2015 by Hudson Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 ...Obama and most world leaders know that Netanyahu does nothing but lie. It's too bad they have to play politics with this unfortunate ugly creature as he does have the lobby groups and billionaire like adelson paying off prostitutes in Congress and Senate. All "world leaders" lie....so why single out the Prime Minister of world's only Jewish state ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 All "world leaders" lie....so why single out the Prime Minister of world's only Jewish state ? Because he hates Jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) All "world leaders" lie.... Very true. However, Netanyahu's lies, just like many other Zionists, are repeated at a consistently high rate. He is someone I would put in the Iraqi Information Minister category. He has been trying to move people for some time. Here is a rare moment of honesty from Netanyahu: Edited July 21, 2015 by marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) HJ your calling Netanyahu a liar shows you pass off as debate unfounded allegations. Either show how he lied or stop with the false accusations. Edited July 21, 2015 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) The accusations of Netanyahu being a liar by the "second" poster following after HJ is to be expected. The calling of Netanyahu a liar shows vividly that neither poster debates with a position and can only engage in derogatory insults. This lack of substance and inability to debate with anything of substance speaks loudly. The thread has been reduced to liar liar pants on fire. Pathetic. Edited July 21, 2015 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Put up or shut up. Provide evidence Netanyahu lied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 WWWT I addressed your words-no one else's. As for stating the words I present are wishy washy and I speak of other posters try Big Guy's words. I don't selectively choose which nations I like. I don't call terrrorists stable frustrated people forced to act out. I don't pretend Iran is a stable country to be trusted. I call it a terrorist nation. I call your words contradictory. Your double standard position is a retread of the 2 wrongs create an equivalent value position. That is how you then argue Iran is entitled to creating nuke weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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