New HarperPAC

[Argus]

HarperPAC was "up" for three days before the government shut it down - citing the rules that they themselves put in place. Good for them. Yet the Union-backed Engage Canada PAC lives on - headed by former Liberal and NDP hacks with the stated goal of making the Conservatives "unelectable". Go figure.

And lying. Their first ad, spoken in a tragic voice, talks about how income inequality is 'skyrocketing' under Harper, which is a bald faced lie.

Regardless of what measure of income you use (market, total or after-tax) or which threshold you use (top 10 per cent, five per cent, one per cent, 0.1 per cent, 0.01 per cent) you get the same answer: top-end income shares peaked in 2006 and have been declining ever since. These shares are still higher than what they were in 1982, but to say that top-end inequality has “skyrocketed” during the Conservative government is absurd; “cratered” would be a better description.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/stephen-gordon-despite-what-the-attack-ads-say-incomes-at-the-very-top-have-fallen-since-harper-took-power

Edited June 26, 2015 by Argus

[Big Guy]

To Keepitsimple - My point about the latest ad was that the images were intended by ISIS to be shown as often as possible to terrorize people. ISIS produced them and the Conservatives reproduced them in their ads!

The networks did not show some of these images originally because they did not want to follow the ISIS agenda - but the Conservatives did follow the ISIS agenda of terrorizing people!

Why do you think ISIS produced and distributed those images?

And why would the Harper war room play into the ISIS hands just to attack Justin?

Edited June 26, 2015 by Big Guy

[Boges]

Not sure how it's xenophobic to give preference to immigrants that can actually speak one of Canada's official languages and have good prospect of finding gainful employment.

[Keepitsimple]

To Keepitsimple - My point about the latest ad was that the images were intended by ISIS to be shown as often as possible to terrorize people. ISIS produced them and the Conservatives reproduced them in their ads!

The networks did not show some of these images originally because they did not want to follow the ISIS agenda - but the Conservatives did follow the ISIS agenda of terrorizing people!

Why do you think ISIS produced and distributed those images?

And why would the Harper war room play into the ISIS hands just to attack Justin?

Your point is an inch short of a complete lie. You made it seem like the Conservative ad was replaying the disgusting ISIS videos. They are not. They use single frame pictures that do not show the actual violence - it's the commentary that provides the emotional context. As for your claim that the networks don't show these images - here's a link to a CBC news report - I'm sure there are plenty more out there. How about starting a topic that denounces the CBC for pandering to the ISIS propaganda? As for Mr. Trudeau? The vast majority of Canadians don't agree with him - and this is a pretty effective way to point that out.

Link: http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2651275778/

[scribblet]

I thought this was about PACs and spending.. Should there be legislation regulating them outside of the writ period, if so how much and should we also regulate accuracy and truthfullness.

As for family reunification or bringing elderly parents/grandparents in, that's fine and dandy as long as they do not go on welfare or use our healthcare program for free. Neither should any changes be proposed or made lowering their OAS eligibility.

[Hudson Jones]

By 'xenophobes' do you mean Canadians who think the NDP plan for bringing over masses of illiterate third world types with no education or job skills is a bad idea? Or the Canadians who think the Liberals determination to bring in more middle east refugees and rescind new immigration rules, like the ones giving preference to those who can speak English or French, and which say the immigrant actually has to live here, are a bad idea?

Show me in their platform how the NDP will bring illiterates third world types with no education or job skills to Canada. You sound like the stereotype I just mentioned in my post. All talk and hot air but no facts.

[scribblet]

The NDP say they will make family and family reunification central to immigration policy. If family reunification trumps qualifications and skills then it obviously will lead to fewer skilled people and more unqualified less meritorious unskilled people coming in, which would be detrimental to Canada’s economy (and health care ).

[WWWTT]

The reason the Conservatives are not happy is the group is trying to give the impression that they are affiliated with either the Prime Minister himself, or the Conservative Party. The thing that's not necessarily clear is if that rule applies outside of the writ period.

Harper is a proper name.

There may very well be more than one "Harper" in this upcoming federal election.

The argument that it is confusing would never fly because there are many Harper's.

If it did, then anyone with the name Harper may have to change their name because of one person.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

HarperPAC was "up" for three days before the government shut it down

Have a link showing the government shut it down?

WWWTT

Edited June 26, 2015 by WWWTT

[Argus]

Meanwhile, the NDP/Liberal PAC has another new ad out decrying Harper cutting $36 billion from health care, and telling people to call Harper and tell him to stop cuts to health care.

Another complete, bald faced lie.

[WWWTT]

Either that or they really did just want to bring attention to the amount of money being spent now by EngageCanada (and it's two other groups).

Freedom of speech!

Seems like the conservatives were all for it until the "freedom of speech" subject was about how bad of a government they are!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

To Keepitsimple - My point about the latest ad was that the images were intended by ISIS to be shown as often as possible to terrorize people. ISIS produced them and the Conservatives reproduced them in their ads!

The networks did not show some of these images originally because they did not want to follow the ISIS agenda - but the Conservatives did follow the ISIS agenda of terrorizing people!

Why do you think ISIS produced and distributed those images?

And why would the Harper war room play into the ISIS hands just to attack Justin?

Yep!

This is the conservatives "Chretien face" moment.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Another complete, bald faced lie.

Then start up your own PAC and tell the Canadians.

After all it's freedom of speech!

WWWTT

[scribblet]

Meanwhile, the NDP/Liberal PAC has another new ad out decrying Harper cutting $36 billion from health care, and telling people to call Harper and tell him to stop cuts to health care.

Another complete, bald faced lie.

Exactly... but the problem is low information voters don't fact check these ads.

[Keepitsimple]

Have a link showing the government shut it down?

WWWTT

Ah - you're very sharp. Very clever. You are indeed right. The government did not shut it down - because they had nothing to do with it - other get very irate and get the originator, Stephen Taylor, to voluntarily shut it down.

[Keepitsimple]

Yep!

This is the conservatives "Chretien face" moment.

WWWTT

You must have missed my reply to Big Guy in Post #129:

Your point is an inch short of a complete lie. You made it seem like the Conservative ad was replaying the disgusting ISIS videos. They are not. They use single frame pictures that do not show the actual violence - it's the commentary that provides the emotional context. As for your claim that the networks don't show these images - here's a link to a CBC news report - I'm sure there are plenty more out there. How about starting a topic that denounces the CBC for pandering to the ISIS propaganda? As for Mr. Trudeau? The vast majority of Canadians don't agree with him - and this is a pretty effective way to point that out.

Link: http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2651275778/

[WWWTT]

You must have missed my reply to Big Guy in Post #129:

Not at all.

But regardless, the damage is already done.

Only shows how desperate the conservatives are at this point.

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

Exactly... but the problem is low information voters don't fact check these ads.

These ads are warped and I hope and suspect they will come back and smack Harper right in the kisser which is exactly what he deserves. The desperation hes in is clearly evidenced by this crap.

[cybercoma]

The NDP say they will make family and family reunification central to immigration policy. If family reunification trumps qualifications and skills then it obviously will lead to fewer skilled people and more unqualified less meritorious unskilled people coming in, which would be detrimental to Canada’s economy (and health care ).

What use is accepting people for their skills if they can't have their family here with them? Would you bring your skills to a foreign country if you weren't then allowed to bring in and support your own family? You do know that family class immigrants need to have a sponsor that can support them, right? All of you radical anti-immigration types are fear mongering over nonsense.

Edited June 27, 2015 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Meanwhile, the NDP/Liberal PAC has another new ad out decrying Harper cutting $36 billion from health care, and telling people to call Harper and tell him to stop cuts to health care.

Another complete, bald faced lie.

The is no NDP/LPC PAC. Trudeau has been releasing attack ads against Mulcair.

[Keepitsimple]

The is no NDP/LPC PAC. Trudeau has been releasing attack ads against Mulcair.

Are you now trying to say that Engage Canada is not led by former LIberals and NDP hacks?

[scribblet]

The is no NDP/LPC PAC. Trudeau has been releasing attack ads against Mulcair.

It certainly is (EngageCanada) - and Big Union backing, although they refuse to disclose who is behind them unlike the now defunct ConservativePac...

http://blogs.canoe.com/davidakin/politics/engage-canada-vs-evidence-jenni-byrne-and-the-conservatives/

group described by the Globe and Mail as “high-level Liberal and New Democratic backroom veterans” calling themselves “Engage Canada” has launched a massive new advertising campaign against us.

I'm not calling for them to be shut down but Kingsley is, I just asked if they should be regulated, at least as far as truthfulness goes.

http://www.durhamregion.com/news-story/5697049-engage-canada-should-shut-down-kingsley/

update: Baloney Meter Update: Because EngageCanada didn't correct for inflation, that EngageCanada factoid has been upgraded to "A Lot of Baloney"

Edited June 27, 2015 by scribblet

[Keepitsimple]

This was all before HarperPAC of course........and Engage Canada" claims they are "non-partisan"....is it any wonder that someone felt obliged to counter this Left Wing attempt to thwart democracy? The Conservatives may indeed spend their own money on so-called "attack ads" but the public knows where they come from.

A group of high-level Liberal and New Democratic backroom veterans has collected millions of dollars from unions and other centre-left interests to run a pre-election advertising campaign attacking Stephen Harper’s Conservatives.

.........................................................

The effort appears to confirm Conservatives’ fears of a federal equivalent of Working Families Coalition – the union umbrella group that has spent massively on attack ads in the past several Ontario elections, contributing to a run of losses for that province’s Progressive Conservatives.

.........................................................

Engage Canada’s leadership group includes Don Guy, who was campaign director for former Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty; Dave Gene, who was a deputy chief of staff for Mr. McGuinty and worked alongside Mr. Guy on Ontario Liberal campaigns; and Kathleen Monk, who was director of communications for the late NDP leader Jack Layton. Sources indicated that Brian Topp, a former national campaign director for the NDP, was also involved in early discussions, but that he ceased his involvement before he became chief of staff to Alberta Premier Rachel Notley.

..........................................................

Beyond any impact on Mr. Harper’s fortunes, the effort will serve as a test for the ability of outside groups to influence federal elections – something made difficult by much more restrictive campaign-finance laws than in Ontario and many other provinces. Spending by any third-party organization during the official election period is capped at $150,000 nationally. As a result, any significant advertising campaign by outside interests will need to happen before then. A source familiar with Engage Canada’s efforts said that it does not intend to advertise during the writ period at all, nor to register with Elections Canada as a third party for that purpose.

Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/unions-centre-left-interests-to-begin-ad-campaign-attacking-harpers-tories/article24924913/

[scribblet]

What use is accepting people for their skills if they can't have their family here with them? Would you bring your skills to a foreign country if you weren't then allowed to bring in and support your own family? You do know that family class immigrants need to have a sponsor that can support them, right? All of you radical anti-immigration types are fear mongering over nonsense.

First of all, All of you radical anti-immigration types is a total mis-characterization if not outright lie as it does not represent anything that has been said here, so quit imputing thoughts and ideas to people that were never said or even implied.

Immigrants can bring in their dependant children, no problem there, we are talking about bringing in elderly dependant relatives. As far as I know there are no specifics in their plans, just promises to fast track etc. so we don't know what they will do, if they will lift the cap and lower sponsorship requirements. I'll stick with fast tracking skilled workers.

Seems reasonable to me

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-accepting-5-000-parent-grandparent-sponsorship-applications-1.2481803

[marcus]

The NDP say they will make family and family reunification central to immigration policy. If family reunification trumps qualifications and skills then it obviously will lead to fewer skilled people and more unqualified less meritorious unskilled people coming in, which would be detrimental to Canada’s economy (and health care ).

In another post, you said "low-information voters" and you have just displayed how you have low information on immigration.

Family class immigration does not cut into economic class immigration. It's a separate class and each are given a quota that should be met. It's also important to know that those who are sponsoring parents must meet a certain income threshold for the previous 3 years, which disqualifies many people. These rules have been in place for many years under different governments.