Boges Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 Below is a very cool video tabulating the death toll in World War 2 and how it compares to other conflicts. The numbers are staggering. http://www.fallen.io/ww2/ Later in the video, the narrator discussing something called the Long Peace. It speaks to the world post WW2. Though we have seen war since World War 2 the trend continues downwards and not since World War 2 has any developed nation taken up arms against each other. The Long Peace is a term for the historical period following the end of World War II in 1945. This period of Cold War (1945–1991) was marked by the absence of major wars between the great powers of the period, the USA and the USSR.[1][2][3] Following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 and the rise of China as a major power, there followed two decades of continued absence of direct conflict between major states, though lesser military conflicts occurred. A phrase meant to express the length of the peace in Europe since 1945 is "It has been 2,000 years since an army has not crossed the Rhine for so long a time." It is speculated that the obvious political errors leading to World War I and World War II with their consequent horrors and, thereafter, the acquisition of thermonuclear weapons by the opposing powers exerted a restraining influence on the leaderships of the major powers. See Deterrence theory. So as much as we like to blame Western Democracies for all that's wrong in the world. With them in charge globally Earth has not seen a sustained period of relative peace in recorded human history. When you consider the staggering casualties in WW2, this is quite an accomplishment actually. Is this because of the prospect of mutually assured destruction that nuclear weapons provide? Or is this peace just an illusion. I thought we could debate this considering all the Anti-American rhetoric we see on this site and considering the United States is the undisputed champion of the world, can't the be, mostly credited, with the Long Peace? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 ...Or is this peace just an illusion. I thought we could debate this considering all the Anti-American rhetoric we see on this site and considering the United States is the undisputed champion of the world, can't the be, mostly credited, with the Long Peace? Nah...I saw those graphs this weekend, and while amazing, the United States remains armed to the teeth and ready to nuke every major population center and military objective within range. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 No, it's real. You need to frame all of the misery and outrage that we see in the news daily as being mitigated by constant progress over time. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 Nah...I saw those graphs this weekend, and while amazing, the United States remains armed to the teeth and ready to nuke every major population center and military objective within range. This is known as overkill, and you're overpaying for it. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 This is known as overkill, and you're overpaying for it. That's OK...it is left over from the Cold War. Use 'em or lose 'em. Canadian uranium...of course. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 It's the new hardware I'm thinking about - they still build too much, and they park them Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 8, 2015 Report Posted June 8, 2015 It's the new hardware I'm thinking about - they still build too much, and they park them Well, in Canada, they don't build them...and have to park them. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted June 9, 2015 Report Posted June 9, 2015 Peace between developed nations yes. Not much peace anywhere else. Canada is at war right now in a few countries. The recent Second Congo War aka The Great African War directly or indirectly caused the deaths of 5.4 million people and counting. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 9, 2015 Report Posted June 9, 2015 And sometimes America parks them after they get tired of a war on the other side of the world. ISIS says thanks. Quote
Big Guy Posted June 9, 2015 Report Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) I wish that I could agree with the OP but people are getting killed in wars all over the place: http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts How many people have to be dying before it is a "war"? Edited June 9, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Michael Hardner Posted June 9, 2015 Report Posted June 9, 2015 How many people have to be dying before it is a "war"? The video quantifies these things.... maybe go the extra step to find out if your numbers actually differ ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 9, 2015 Report Posted June 9, 2015 So I guess the "genocide" in Canada was a war...many thousands died. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Freddy Posted June 10, 2015 Report Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) To much peace = to much population = just as bad as War. Edited June 10, 2015 by Freddy Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 10, 2015 Report Posted June 10, 2015 To much peace = to much population = just as bad as War. We have a negative population growth if you only count birthrate. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Freddy Posted June 10, 2015 Report Posted June 10, 2015 We have a negative population growth if you only count birthrate. Worldwide or Canada? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 10, 2015 Report Posted June 10, 2015 Yes, Canada it's true, but worldwide birth rates are reducing too. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Rue Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 If you look at fertility rates world wide, it is believed by certain scientists there is already ample evidence to suggest the estrogen from discarded plastics alone, but also in addition to the toxic chemicals in our atmosphere and food and water tables as well as the sheer volume of microwaves in the air are lowering the sperm count of males so drastically we are headed to a time not so far away, i.e., 10-200 years where most of us will be sterile. War, disease, sterility rates, accidental death rates, are all being forecasted by actuaries and suggest we are dying out. Then again as part of evolution all species must change, adapt, evolve or become extinct. The rats and cock-roaches have us beat when it comes to adaption. Quote
Boges Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world. This quote is meaningless without citation. Even so that's less than half the deaths of a single war over the course of 70 years. We're talking perspective here. Edited June 11, 2015 by Boges Quote
Je suis Omar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 This quote is meaningless without citation. Even so that's less than half the deaths of a single war over the course of 70 years. We're talking perspective here. The perspective that you are avoiding big time is that you are attempting apologies for a country that is the equivalent of whatever set of evil doers that have ever inhabited the planet. This peace notion is pure crap. There are millions upon millions of third world peoples who have never had peace solely because of the USA. Quote
Boges Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) The perspective that you are avoiding big time is that you are attempting apologies for a country that is the equivalent of whatever set of evil doers that have ever inhabited the planet. This peace notion is pure crap. There are millions upon millions of third world peoples who have never had peace solely because of the USA. Again you'll need to provide some citation. Were wars fought in Africa due to racism, tribalism or religion America's fault? Is the current Syrian Civil War America's fault? We're talking scale here though. After World War 2 the number of people dying from war is on a steady decline. The Nazi's directly killed 20 million Soviets during World War 2. Do you have a figure of how many people the US have killed in all the wars since WW2? Does it even come to a fraction of 20 million? Edited June 11, 2015 by Boges Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 Do you have a figure of how many people the US have killed in all the wars since WW2? Does it even come to a fraction of 20 million? Yes, I'd like to see the answer to this question too. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Boges Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Yes, I'd like to see the answer to this question too. I just took a look at the site that was linked. It goes quite a long way to detail Post WW2 conflicts, then highlights the US involvement. But does it attribute all deaths in each conflict to the US then? That's just absurd. For example this: Iran Iran lost about 262,000 people in the war against Iraq from 1980 to 1988. (1) See Iraq for more information about that war. On July 3, 1988 the U.S. Navy ship, the Vincennes, was operating withing Iranian waters providing military support for Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. During a battle against Iranian gunboats it fired two missiles at an Iranian Airbus, which was on a routine civilian flight. All 290 civilian on board were killed. (2,3) So do opponents of this theory atrribute all deaths in the Iraq and Iran war to intervention from the United States? Edited June 11, 2015 by Boges Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 I guess we'll know soon. Omar ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
dre Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 I guess we'll know soon. Omar ? Its unknowable. We know western nations provided a modest ammount of material support for Iraq during the war... and we know the world turned its back on a flagrant violation of international law and that UNSEC and the countries in it (especially the permanent members) allowed it to happen. But because so much of this stuff is handled in secret by intelligence agencies we will never know the extent to which the US and other countries actually encouraged Iraq to invade in the first place. The US likes to instigate things behind the scenes, and pursue policy by proxy. Trying to actually attribute a certain number of casualties to the enablers of that war is quite literally an impossible excersize in futility. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Je suis Omar Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 I guess we'll know soon. Omar ? Coming from a gentleman for whom research is anathema, you certainly have a lot of gall, Michael. Quote
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