kimmy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 In general, police officers are given the benefit of any doubt compared to perps and repeat offender perps....that will not change. They're still acting as if they'll get the benefit of the doubt, but with the ubiquity of recording devices, the amount of "doubt" has been greatly reduced and the police are getting caught red-handed with great frequency. But instead of cleaning up their act and dealing with their "bad apples" they've instead decided to lobby lawmakers for laws against recording police. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 That's fine by me....union labour does that a lot for educators, civil service, fire departments, and other public professions. Gonna record all of them too ? Sorry...not feeling it....maybe the perps need to unionize too. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Why do you guys keep bringing forth this false dichotomy? "Hur-de-dur! If you're criticizing the police, you must be a perp-loving thug-hugger!" "Hur de dur! If you won't Stand With The Heroes In Blue, maybe the cops should just let the thugs run wild and then we'll see how you feel about the police!" That's not it at all. I'm not saying we'd be better off without police. I'm not saying that thugs shouldn't be punished. I'm saying that thugs should be punished, even when they have badges. -k Maybe just leave him to his hug a thug meme. He seems proud of it, and it keeps him busy. Quote
eyeball Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 When people call "911"....it is not for help from perps.There is such a thing as suicide by cop. It may only be a matter of time before someone commits attempted murder with a call to 911. Could be it's already happened.That said I bet a lot of people also think twice before calling the cops for fearful of having someone's death on their conscience. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 There is such a thing as suicide by cop. It may only be a matter of time before someone commits attempted murder with a call to 911. Could be it's already happened. Old news...already factored into the price. What has really happened is that efforts to get police resources for encounters with the mentally ill has been overtaken by the current social media trend to hug perps. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Icebound Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 ...... efforts to get police resources for encounters with the mentally ill has been overtaken by the current social media trend to hug perps. Social media does not control resources; governments and management do..... . the "efforts to get police resources for encounters with the mentally ill has been overtaken by .... the lack of political will to divert funds from "easy" solutions: jails, guns, armour.... and into the research, training, and facilities which those situations actually require... ... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Social media does not control resources; governments and management do..... . the "efforts to get police resources for encounters with the mentally ill has been overtaken by .... the lack of political will to divert funds from "easy" solutions: jails, guns, armour.... and into the research, training, and facilities which those situations actually require... Political will is influenced by "social media"....it's the new thing. Ironically, it was political pressure that dropped support for institutionalization of the mentally ill, so now they rot on the streets, suicide by cop, or go to prisons. The police grunts get to deal with it all. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Social media does not control resources; governments and management do..... . the "efforts to get police resources for encounters with the mentally ill has been overtaken by .... the lack of political will to divert funds from "easy" solutions: jails, guns, armour.... and into the research, training, and facilities which those situations actually require... ... And Harper seems quite happy to take us down that road, at least the jails part with his tough on crime stuff. And that even after he was advised by, of all people, reps of the state of Texas, about how well their investment on various types of crime prevention paid off in straight dollars, as well as recidivism rates. Quote
Argus Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Once again, the fatal injuries to Freddie Gray were inflicted after he was already restrained hand and foot and locked in the back of a police van. You don't find that problematic to the narrative that you're promoting? -k Why was Gray in the truck? Look, I'm not saying there aren't moronic cops who don't abuse their power. I've said so often enough. I've also said there's a major issue with police training in that they basically teach police officers to be frightened at all times and to be ready to draw and shoot the instant it even looks like maybe someone might have a gun or be a threat. I'm a supporter of mandatory police cameras, too. But even so, almost every incident which has made national headlines has been the result of people not cooperating with or obeying police. Note that I'm not saying the police actions in all those cases were justified. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 They can if they wish...police still enjoy far more support than do the perps. Do you really think that's something for police to brag about? That they enjoy more support than the criminals? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Do you really think that's something for police to brag about? That they enjoy more support than the criminals? Yes...I do. 'Support your local police / sheriff' was a common bumper sticker many years ago. Citizens will still come to an officer's aid when perps are hell bent on assaulting or killing them. Criminals deserve support too...that's why we have prisons. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Why was Gray in the truck?Because he was a good for nothing criminal that deserved to die. Is that what you're looking for? Quote
Icebound Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Political will is influenced by "social media"....it's the new thing. ... then our politicians need to be reminded why they are there. Social media is not a referendum.... and even if it was .... a referendum of the citizens does not necessarily reflect the best position for the country. Which is why we elect law-makers to act on our behalf.... to research issues, study facts, determine the best path... in SPITE of the stupidity of their constituents. Unfortunately, you are right. Instead of doing the above, they simply react to their fund-raiser's wishes. ... Quote
Black Dog Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Political will is influenced by "social media"....it's the new thing. Ironically, it was political pressure that dropped support for institutionalization of the mentally ill, so now they rot on the streets, suicide by cop, or go to prisons. The police grunts get to deal with it all. The idea that "social media" has a greater influence on politicians/policy than well-organized and well-funded lobby groups like police unions is so farcical it could only have come from one poster. And it sure as hell wasn't public opinion that led to the closures of mental institutions and withdrawal of social supports for the mentally ill or drug addicted: that was pure Reaganomics, baby. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Guess again...public and private employees (including police officers) are now being terminated based on social media alone. There was was no Reaganomics in the 1950's or 1960's when deinstitutionalization was prominent in the U.S. Cops have to deal with mentally ill people, most of whom are harmless, but others like to eat fellow passenger's eyeballs after beheading them Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 Yes...I do. 'Support your local police / sheriff' was a common bumper sticker many years ago. Citizens will still come to an officer's aid when perps are hell bent on assaulting or killing them. Criminals deserve support too...that's why we have prisons. I see, so your opinions are guided by bumper stickers..... Thought so. Quote
kimmy Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 Why was Gray in the truck? Look, I'm not saying there aren't moronic cops who don't abuse their power. I've said so often enough. I've also said there's a major issue with police training in that they basically teach police officers to be frightened at all times and to be ready to draw and shoot the instant it even looks like maybe someone might have a gun or be a threat. I'm a supporter of mandatory police cameras, too. But even so, almost every incident which has made national headlines has been the result of people not cooperating with or obeying police. Note that I'm not saying the police actions in all those cases were justified. I take issue with lumping the killing of Freddie Gray in with incidents like the Michael Brown shooting, because they're totally different situations. In cases like the latter, it's entirely possible that a policeman might need to use force, and maybe lethal force, against a suspect who may be aggressive and combative. The Freddie Gray death is a completely different story. The guy charged with slaying Gray-- Caesar Goodson-- isn't one of the officers who was involved in apprehending Gray. He wasn't even there at the time. By the time Caesar Goodson showed up with his police van to take Gray to the station, Gray was already shackled hand and foot. Goodson's interaction with Gray came while Gray was shackled hand and foot and locked inside a metal compartment inside Goodson's van. It's absolutely ludicrous to propose that Gray posed any kind of threat to Goodson, or that he was resisting or uncooperative with Goodson because he was already under complete control before Goodson even arrived. So why does it matter why Gray was in Goodson's van? What justification is there for Goodson to inflict these injuries at this point regardless of why Gray was in the van? What possible difference could it make why Gray got put in the van? No possible answer to that question justifies what happened afterward. Gray is not dead because he foolishly ran from the police. Gray is dead because a police officer decided to dish out some extrajudicial punishment for Gray's foolishness. Gray is dead because "the nickel ride" remains a big fat joke among police in Baltimore (some other cities as well), even though Baltimore "nickel rides" have killed people, left others crippled, and cost the city millions of dollars in compensation payments to victims. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 . It's absolutely ludicrous to propose that Gray posed any kind of threat to Goodson, or that he was resisting or uncooperative with Goodson because he was already under complete control before Goodson even arrived. Unless you were there, you have no idea what happened between Gray and Goodson. That's why there will be evidence presented at trial for a judge and/or jury to decide. Frankly, citizen Gray had such a long rap sheet I'm surprised the cops didn't use a bigger van ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 Unless you were there, you have no idea what happened between Gray and Goodson. That's why there will be evidence presented at trial for a judge and/or jury to decide. Well, we do know that Gray was shackled hand and foot, that he was supposed to have been buckled in with a seatbelt but the police "forgot", and that the van ride was a 40 minute tour of half the city, even though Gray was arrested literally down the street from the station. So if you insist, let's just call it an educated guess. Frankly, citizen Gray had such a long rap sheet So he deserved "the nickel ride"? ... I'm surprised the cops didn't use a bigger van ! what does that even mean? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 Well, we do know that Gray was shackled hand and foot, that he was supposed to have been buckled in with a seatbelt but the police "forgot", and that the van ride was a 40 minute tour of half the city, even though Gray was arrested literally down the street from the station. So if you insist, let's just call it an educated guess. Yes...I insist...you were not there and didn't see anything...just like me. So he deserved "the nickel ride"? what does that even mean? It means that Gray was very familiar to Baltimore police. He was a repeat customer with lots of loyalty points. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 Yes...I insist...you were not there and didn't see anything...just like me. yes, yes, of course. We all know that Caesar's lawyers will present many fanciful theories as to other possible ways that Gray's spine got severed. Perhaps he already had a broken spine when he was sprinting down the street. Perhaps a band of mysterious assailants entered the fan and maimed Gray while Officer Goodson was stopped at the donut shop. Perhaps there was a second driver on the grassy knoll. Perhaps Officer Goodson kept having to stop sharply to avoid dogs that kept running onto the road, and swerve to avoid dangerous drivers. Previous "nickel ride" testimony has revealed that Baltimore is apparently full of stray dogs and dangerous drivers that make driving a police van practically impossible, even for a veteran like Officer Goodson. It means that Gray was very familiar to Baltimore police. He was a repeat customer with lots of loyalty points. So why a "bigger van"? Would it have more luxurious seating? Extra leg-room? En-route snacks? Onboard entertainment system with movies and music? Other frequent-flyer perks? Or would it have spikes on the interior walls, or a built-in gas chamber or electric chair? Something that could have killed Gray in a much shorter drive and saved Officer Goodson a half-hour of his valuable time? What benefits do you imagine this "bigger van" would have provided Officer Goodson and the other police involved in the Freddie Gray incident? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 What benefits do you imagine this "bigger van" would have provided Officer Goodson and the other police involved in the Freddie Gray incident? More leg room for perp comfort. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 More leg room for perp comfort. Yeah, or maybe even just a van with seatbelts, AMIRITE?? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 No...some perp would hang him/herself and people would bitch about that too. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Canada_First Posted June 13, 2015 Report Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah, or maybe even just a van with seatbelts, AMIRITE?? -k Wagons in Canada don't have seatbelts either. We have two kinds of wagons here. We have the ones where it's a big open space in the back with a horseshoe shape steel benches and we have the ones where the back in divided into two halves down the middle with the seating facing the side of the van. both of these van types also come with front compartments where they put PC's or women or YO's. Quote
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