kimmy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 What crime wave? No takers? None of the police cheerleaders here actually want to argue that the alleged crime wave is not fiction? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Does it really matter ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Well, I would hope that the people who earlier championed this flimsy misrepresentation of the facts could at least acknowledge the truth of the matter. As well, since the thread title has been edited once already to more accurately reflect the contents of the thread, perhaps another edit is in order. Perhaps something along the lines of "Police apologists conjure fake crime-wave to fuel backlash against criticism of police." -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Does it really matter ? Not to merikuns apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Well, I would hope that the people who earlier championed this flimsy misrepresentation of the facts could at least acknowledge the truth of the matter. As well, since the thread title has been edited once already to more accurately reflect the contents of the thread, perhaps another edit is in order. No....the original OP was quite clear with specific context. More title edits just confused the matter. Police departments are facing new challenges for several reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 No....the original OP was quite clear with specific context. More title edits just confused the matter. The original title was "So it begins" ... and Sharkman indicated that "it" is a crime-wave resulting directly from media criticism of the police. Given this premise, I think the fact that there's no evidence that such a crime-wave is actually happening is, indeed, central to the thread. So to answer your previous question: yes, It does matter. Police departments are facing new challenges for several reasons. And one of those challenges is definitely not "an Obama crime-wave" fueled by a "media crusade against the police." -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) ...And one of those challenges is definitely not "an Obama crime-wave" fueled by a "media crusade against the police." IMO, with Obama as the sitting president, Americans have seen growth in new kinds of organized protest and defiance specifically against law enforcement, flamed and encouraged by so called "new media". Bush got the same deal. The funny part is that America already went though the Civil Rights era to "Fight the Power...Fight the PowersThat Be"....only now we have smart phones. Edited June 11, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 IMO, with Obama as the sitting president, Americans have seen growth in new kinds of organized protest and defiance specifically against law enforcement, flamed and encouraged by so called "new media". Bush got the same deal. The funny part is that America already went though the Civil Rights era to "Fight the Power...Fight the PowersThat Be"....only now we have smart phones. And those two things are the key. Those are the *real* challenges facing police. Not "Obama". Not "a media crusade". Two prongs: the ubiquity of recording technology makes it far easier to catch them in the act, and the ability for almost everyone to reach an audience makes it easier for people to get their side of the story told. And the problem, if it can be called that, is that it's harder for the police to get away with stuff that they used to do with impunity. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 And those two things are the key. Those are the *real* challenges facing police. Not "Obama". Not "a media crusade". I disagree...Obama is the president and he has gotten personally involved in controversial, local level police actions, same as his predecessors. Comes with the job. So called 'new media' and 'social media' present new challenges and opportunities for law enforcement. The perps are still doing their thing, regardless of 'police brutality' or 'murder". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I disagree...Obama is the president and he has gotten personally involved in controversial, local level police actions, same as his predecessors. Comes with the job. Sure. And for Heather MacDonald and her think-tank, pushing their "Stand with the Heroes In Blue, right or wrong!" message is part of their job too. But it's nobody's job in particular to swallow stuff like that without critical analysis. So called 'new media' and 'social media' present new challenges and opportunities for law enforcement. The perps are still doing their thing, regardless of 'police brutality' or 'murder". Sounds like you agree that brutality and murder are ineffective strategies for law enforcement. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Sure. And for Heather MacDonald and her think-tank, pushing their "Stand with the Heroes In Blue, right or wrong!" message is part of their job too. But it's nobody's job in particular to swallow stuff like that without critical analysis. They can if they wish...police still enjoy far more support than do the perps. "Stand with the Perps, right or wrong" just hasn't caught on yet. Sounds like you agree that brutality and murder are ineffective strategies for law enforcement. No more or less...just because we have "social media" doesn't change the basic cop - perp dynamic. Millions of Americans got through yesterday without getting arrested or shot by the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 They can if they wish...police still enjoy far more support than do the perps. "Stand with the Perps, right or wrong" just hasn't caught on yet. No more or less...just because we have "social media" doesn't change the basic cop - perp dynamic. Millions of Americans got through yesterday without getting arrested or shot by the police. And that sounds like a perfectly good reason to stick your head in the sand. Hey, if a cop stops you and asks for your DL, dot fall for it and reach for it. He may be setting you up to shoot you. Hes probably just young, dum, and full of steroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H10 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 It's complete policeaphobia. It's funny that with many more instances of Islamic terrorism, the media and the usual suspects go out of their way to tell us that it's not all Muslims or that the threat doesn't even exist. But when it's a few instances involving the police, it's a pattern of behaviour that needs to be addressed! The hypocrisy is rank. More americans killed by cops than terrorist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 More americans killed by cops than terrorist. More Americans killed by other citizens than by cops or terrorists....combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 More Americans killed by other citizens than by cops or terrorists....combined. I wonder if that wild stat may have something to do with the slightly higher numbers of their respective populations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H10 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 More Americans killed by other citizens than by cops or terrorists....combined. More Americans killed by their own government than citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 More Americans killed by their own government than citizens. That's just not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 They can if they wish...police still enjoy far more support than do the perps. "Stand with the Perps, right or wrong" just hasn't caught on yet. Why do you guys keep bringing forth this false dichotomy? "Hur-de-dur! If you're criticizing the police, you must be a perp-loving thug-hugger!" "Hur de dur! If you won't Stand With The Heroes In Blue, maybe the cops should just let the thugs run wild and then we'll see how you feel about the police!" That's not it at all. I'm not saying we'd be better off without police. I'm not saying that thugs shouldn't be punished. I'm saying that thugs should be punished, even when they have badges. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 ....That's not it at all. I'm not saying we'd be better off without police. I'm not saying that thugs shouldn't be punished. I'm saying that thugs should be punished, even when they have badges. No problem then...perps are perps. Police officers will still be trained to control the scene and escalate force as required. The perps can whine about it later on YouTube videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 So you support efforts to get thugs like Caesar Goodson thrown in prison where they belong? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 No...I support efforts to apprehend, charge, and determine guilt in a court of law before any prison time. Or does that not apply to "rogue cops" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Of course he'll get a trial. Like many other thugs, aside from Freddy Gray of course. I don't object to the him being presumed innocent until proven guilty. What I do object to is this retarded narrative being brought forth by many (like the authors the editorial in the opening post or the Heather MacDonald WSJ piece it was based off of) that bringing thug cops to trial is in itself bad for America, that criticizing police misconduct causes crime, and that if we want the police to function then we have to turn a blind eye to their misconduct no matter how outrageous. That is what is implicit in this pro-police backlash against police accountability, and its a load of horse crap. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) ...What I do object to is this retarded narrative being brought forth by many (like the authors the editorial in the opening post or the Heather MacDonald WSJ piece it was based off of) that bringing thug cops to trial is in itself bad for America, that criticizing police misconduct causes crime, and that if we want the police to function then we have to turn a blind eye to their misconduct no matter how outrageous. That is what is implicit in this pro-police backlash against police accountability, and its a load of horse crap. That's fine...but Ms. MacDonald has every right to express a view that is supported by several segments of American society, including some "inner city" taxpayers and victims of crime. Most Americans manage to get through the day without turning every encounter with police officers or troopers into a federal case. Medical mistakes kill more people each year than police officers....where is the outrage and protest for "accountability" ? Edited June 12, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I never questioned her right to peddle this horse-crap, I'm just calling it what it is. She-- and others supporting that narrative-- are arguing for police to be exempt from criticism, and treated as if above the law. I thought you guys fought a revolution against that sort of thing. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I never questioned her right to peddle this horse-crap, I'm just calling it what it is. She-- and others supporting that narrative-- are arguing for police to be exempt from criticism, and treated as if above the law. I thought you guys fought a revolution against that sort of thing. C'mon.....you must know better than that. The Founders were slave owners for krissakes ! Police departments around the country are funded and managed with specific legal objectives and obligations (laws), liability, union contracts, public expectations, safety, etc. Criticism has always been part of the mix. In general, police officers are given the benefit of any doubt compared to perps and repeat offender perps....that will not change. When people call "911"....it is not for help from perps. Edited June 12, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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