Michael Hardner Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 What ? This is nonsense and you know it. Global "spikes" all kind of things.... I don't think that's true. Spiking implies the product is ready for presentation, not just killed at the idea stage. what's so important about this particular story ? I don't know. The "common good" is also funded with Koch Bros capital investment(s). True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I don't think that's true. Spiking implies the product is ready for presentation, not just killed at the idea stage. We don't know what the status of production or post-production is/was. Global shut it down, which is their call, not the reporter's. It's Global's air and resources, and there is no "public good" obligation or license requirement to air hit pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Was the documentary going to discuss the massive philanthropy they participate in? I wonder if it would have mentioned them being pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. Probably not. I don't know, was it? You're just throwing crap at the side of a barn. You have no idea what it was going to discuss and neither does anyone else other than those involved with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 We don't know what the status of production or post-production is/was. I believe the piece in Canadaland said it was ready to go to air. They had even promoted it on Twitter et al. It's Global's air and resources, and there is no "public good" obligation or license requirement to air hit pieces. True that they don't have to air 'hit pieces', but it's not their air - it's licensed to them to benefit the public and the license can be removed. See the upshot for the Bell Media president to see how seriously such things are regarded here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/bell-announces-departure-of-media-head-kevin-crull-over-journalistic-meddling/article23864190/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) True that they don't have to air 'hit pieces', but it's not their air - it's licensed to them to benefit the public and the license can be removed. See the upshot for the Bell Media president to see how seriously such things are regarded here: So what....there is no license requirement to produce and air any such content. As long as Global meets application requirements and standards, it can air old hockey games if it wishes. "State control" has never been more popular, eh ? Twitter is a private American social network... Edited April 13, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 "State control" has never been more popular, eh ? Gee, I wonder why. Twitter is a private American social network... Really ? I thought it was Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Not having seen it, I don't know how you can make that assertion. Just the usual idealogical hackery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Really ? I thought it was Canadian. I thought Global was Canadian...but it sure airs a lot of American content ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Just the usual idealogical hackery.Anyone who would even bother to produce a documentary is on the Koch brothers is nothing but an ideological hack. That is why the subject tells us everything we need to know. Edited April 13, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Bruce and Global are very late to the game anyway....much is already known about Koch Industries in Canada going back many years. From 2014: According to the Washington Post, which uses a report from the activist group the International Forum on Globalization as a foundation, a Koch Industries subsidiary holds leases on 1.1 million acres in the northern Alberta oil sands, an area nearly the size of Delaware. The Post confirmed the group’s findings with Alberta Energy, the provincial government’s ministry of energy. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/20/3417175/koch-brothers-are-largest-land-owners-of-canadas-tar-sands/ "Documentaries" are so....1990's !! Edited April 13, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Anyone who would even bother to produce a documentary is on the Koch brothers is nothing but an ideological hack. That is why the subject tells us everything we need to know. What a moronic statement. Just because some people are way too fixated on the Kock brothers does not mean that the influence they wield or the way that they use it is not worthy of a documentary. You just automatically make that assumption because youre no less of an ideologue than people on left that are obsessed with these guys. Like I said... just garden variety brain-dead hackery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Just because some people are way too fixated on the Kock brothers does not mean that the influence they wield or the way that they use it is not worthy of a documentary.Not unless it was a documentary that looked at the influence billionaires from across the political spectrum. A documentary that looks at only the Koch brothers is going to be ideological hackery - full stop. There is simply no reason for anyone to invest the time it takes to create such a piece without an ideological agenda. Edited April 13, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Was the documentary going to discuss the massive philanthropy they participate in? I wonder if it would have mentioned them being pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. Probably not. Massive philanthopy? You mean all the money they give to the tea party? That's not philanthropy, they're buying politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Any such "documentary" is really just a propaganda exercise supporting progressive ideologues. There are plenty of billionaires who spend tonnes of money supporting progressive causes that don't draw the same scrutiny as the Koches do. It is all part of the "evil capitalist" meme that progressives need to create to rationalize their belief system. Yes, I agree. But what's wrong with that? Progressives and conservatives both use vasts amounts of information that they push to the masses through the media in order to convince people that their given ideology is correct, and that their political/economic/social goals are just and should be followed. The MSM is one big battlefield in the war of ideas where followers of ideologies such as "progressivism" and "conservatism", whether conscious of it or not, use the media to fight for dominance. Isn't it fascinating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) ROTFL. The synopsis is the 'Koch brothers influence in Canada". Do you really believe that anyone would produce a documentary that said this influence did not exist or it is a good thing? I don't think so. The only thing this so called to documentary could be is progressive propaganda piece whining about a couple billionaires that don't have the "correct" (as defined by progressives) opinions. It is all about artificially creating a villain to rally people to the progressive banner. There's nothing "artificial" about it. For progressives, the Koch bros ARE villians, to their aims at least. Anyone who would even bother to produce a documentary is on the Koch brothers is nothing but an ideological hack. That is why the subject tells us everything we need to know. I could easily turn this around on you and say: "Anyone who would even bother to criticize a documentary on the Koch brothers is nothing but an ideological hack. That is why the subject tells us everything we need to know." Admit it, you wouldn't like a documentary criticizing/exposing the Koch brothers because it would be contrary to your ideological & political aims, just as such a documentary would be in support of the aims of your ideological/political rivals. That kinda makes you a hypocrite. Edited April 13, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) But what's wrong with that? Progressives and conservatives both use vasts amounts of information that they push to the masses through the media in order to convince people that their given ideology is correct, and that their political/economic/social goals are just and should be followed.It is all about narrative. Whether it is exploiting crime or terror or creating conspiracies about the "1%". It is 10% truth and 90% fiction. The issue are not that these competing narratives are constructed it is that many people cannot distinguish between constructed narrative and truth. I find the obsession with the Koch brothers to be particularity galling because they are no different from any number of billionaires and celebrities who support causes they believe in. It is quite ridiculous to single them out. Edited April 13, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 It is all about narrative. Whether it is exploiting crime or terror or creating conspiracies about the "1%". It is 10% truth and 90% fiction. The issue are not that these competing narratives are constructed it is that many people cannot distinguish between constructed narrative and truth. I agree, many people can't. In fact it's really impossible to distinguish fact from fiction in a documentary when it's presented well unless you already know the facts from the fiction or research the topic afterwards. It's one of the reasons why I'm not particularly a fan of many modern documentaries. Most of them have an agenda in convincing people of some viewpoint, rather than just presenting information. Michael Moore is case in point. On the other hand, I enjoy a good historical documentary like those by Ken Burns since they're less biased or opinionated, more factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I could easily turn this around on you and say: "Anyone who would even bother to criticize a documentary on the Koch brothers is nothing but an ideological hack. That is why the subject tells us everything we need to know."Not really because criticism requires no real effort on my part (a few minutes to type a post). Creating a documentary requires that months (if not years) of effort on the part of a person. No one would ever put this kind of effort in without some personal motivation. The Koch brothers are simply not that interesting outside of their role as a political punching bag for progressives so it is quite reasonable to say that anyone who invested time in creating a documentary would only be doing so for ideological reasons. Edited April 13, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 It's not hard to find documentary hit pieces on Koch Industries...here is a dandy from Rolling Stone, that paragon of journalism excellence: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Not really because criticism requires no real effort on my part (a few minutes to type a post). Creating a documentary requires that months (if not years) of effort on the part of a person. No one would ever put this kind of effort in without some personal motivation. The Koch brothers are simply not that interesting outside of their role as a political punching bag for progressives so it is quite reasonable to say that anyone who invested time in creating a documentary would only be doing so for ideological reasons. That's just not true, you're making absolute statements that are pretty ridiculous. Will left-leaning people be more interesting in Koch Bros? Will left-leaning people be more likely to make a doc on Koch bros? Yes. But it's pretty interesting no matter your ideological bent that you have a couple of rich people influencing politics with their money at the magnitude the Koch bros do. If you're interesting in lobbying and campaign finance, it's interesting. It's also adds to the debate about personal money and it's role in influencing democratic elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Not unless it was a documentary that looked at the influence billionaires from across the political spectrum. A documentary that looks at only the Koch brothers is going to be ideological hackery - full stop. There is simply no reason for anyone to invest the time it takes to create such a piece without an ideological agenda.Like I said, I hope the CBC picks up the ball and goes farther by looking at that broader spectrum you mentioned.Wanna bet you'd hear even more crying about ideological hackery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Massive philanthopy? You mean all the money they give to the tea party? That's not philanthropy, they're buying politicians. Argus I'll forgive your ignorance since this subject isn't your forte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 You have given money to all of these different hospitals, universities, different schools and so forth. Yet there are people would call you an evil billionaire. Why?” Walters said. “Well, I don’t understand that,” Koch answered. Walters asked Koch to explain his political views, stating that he’s “not well-liked” because of his “very conservative politics.” “Well, I’m basically a libertarian,” Koch said. “I’m a conservative on economic matters, and I’m a social liberal.” Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/david-koch-social-liberal-113572.html#ixzz3XF2jteOo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Wanna bet you'd hear even more crying about ideological hackery?Well if they treat Tom Steyer and the Rockefellers the same as they treat the Koches then you would not hear it from me. But it won't happen because to the typical progressive working for CBC money is only a problem in politics if it is used to support "wrong" ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Do you have a poll, study or independent audit/assessment that validates that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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